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Why do the G&B boards dislike CertainlyT so much?

ReshiKillim··7 votes·1,275 views

Now before someone gets angry at me and says I'm defending him because I play his champs, I don't really play much of any of the champions he designed. But I think they're fun and innovative as well as good for the game.

Yasuo in my opinion can be annoying but can also be very fun to play against. Kalista is always leaping and kiting around like a monkey, which makes it feel so rewarding once you catch and kill her.

Thresh is all about his chains but, I kinda like playing against him. Dodging his telegraphed pull isn't that hard, nor is exploiting his self pull as a good number of champions.

Zyra is totally fine though it'd be nice if she were stronger in terms of damage. Because I like playing against/as her. She's fun, got some nice mechanics, and is overall a great champ.

Darius is Darius and has always been the terrifying dunk lord that he is, but why do people act like him being tanky and doing a lot of damage while having a self heal is the worst thing ever?

Did I forget to mention that CertainlyT DIDN'T make Zed like a lot of people seem to believe? He helped out fix bugs and some design flaws. But he had no part in the abilities or mechanics.

I'm fully aware that G&B boards has a great dislike for the champions CertainlyT has designed, but I would like to know why. Does Kalista frustrate you because you're playing an immobile champion who can't catch up? Why do people treat Thresh as the worst thing ever? And why do people seem to think that there is no counterplay to a Yasuo?

This is my question to the G&B boards, why does it seem like nearly all of you loathe CertainlyT?

FunFact: CertainlyT stands for Certainly True Damage

29 Comments

Salron7 votes

Because they don't realize that the balance team is responsible for his champions being released in hideously overpowered states since he just makes the kit and not the numbers that go with it.

SEKAI3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBqLBjQg,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2015-09-20T18:27:41.808+0000)

Because they don't realize that the balance team is responsible for his champions being released in hideously overpowered states since he just makes the kit and not the numbers that go with it.

Except balance team is pretty much only allowed to touch numbers.

They can't do shiet against champ blue prints that are loaded with mechanics. A champ like that is impossible to balance just by tweaking numbers alone because it will just end up with broken OP or garbage UP.

CT is just a guy who digs loop holes while avoiding responsibilities. He shouldn't even be a game designer, he should have pursued the path to become a lawyer.

A designer has responsibility to make their champ balanced in theory while the balance team tackles the practicality of the design. None of CT's champs are anywhere near the balanced benchmark in theory how do you think the balance team is gonna fix it, redo the design for him?

I hate it whenever people say it's always the balance team's fault.

Z Statistic2 votes

Champion design requires approval from one's peers.

The reason we don't have a champion that has an ultimately that literally kills everyone on the map instantly is because it's going to get vetoed. The reason CertainlyT's champions made it to live is because the majority of his peers agreed that the kit was balanceable.

Blade of Justic1 votes

{quoted}

Champion design requires approval from one's peers.

The reason we don't have a champion that has an ultimately that literally kills everyone on the map instantly is because it's going to get vetoed. The reason CertainlyT's champions made it to live is because the majority of his peers agreed that the kit was balanceable.

I might be pushing the envelope a bit here, but...

Karthus

Z Statistic1 votes

Requiem does not deal 100% max health absolute true damage. Nor does it kill the caster and their allies. It doesn't even do its damage instantly. But that's not the point. Champion design is voted upon. Just because you design a kit doesn't automatically mean it's going to go to live.

SEKAI1 votes

{quoted}

Champion design requires approval from one's peers.

The reason we don't have a champion that has an ultimately that literally kills everyone on the map instantly is because it's going to get vetoed. The reason CertainlyT's champions made it to live is because the majority of his peers agreed that the kit was balanceable.

I personally would not be surprised if 1 day we hear that Riot is actively pushing CT's champion out by either skipping normal procedures or putting pressures on the peer reviews, because his designs can get spectators riled up in heat, sales etc.

Since really, I doubt anyone on this planet could read Yasuo, Darius, Thresh, Kalista's kits for the very first time and think "yeah that's totally balanced we should give it a bash". It's not impossible, but just very unlikely. Not to mention one can see a trend of his champ getting more and more ridiculous as time goes on, I tbh really suspect that there are foul plays involved.

But then again this is purely hypothetical and just ultimately an assumption.

Penns4 votes

lel Yasuo feels nowhere near "fun to play against", unless youre camping and crushing him, which is fun against every champ I suppose.

Also, every ADC feels rewarding when you catch and kill them...

And what exactly makes Thresh Q "telegraphed"? If anything, Blitz Q is telegraphed. Thresh doesnt even face the direction he hooks. But the broken ass hitbox makes up for both of these abilities.

"Itd be nice if Zyra was stronger in terms of damage"- meanwhile she has average 22k damage dealt, that is as much as most high damage hyper carries in the game (Vayne, Cassiopeia, Jinx) while shes played support most of the time (70% of her games).

"why do people act like him being tanky and doing a lot of damage while having a self heal is the worst thing ever?" You just answered your question lmao.

ReshiKillim2 votes

Once upon a time, Darius was so broken he could 1v5 an entire team at level 1 without difficulty. And this was on live. He's nowhere as unfair as he used to be. And as full damage, he could penta dunk your whole team before you got the chance to do anything.

I've had a lot of fun playing against Yasuo, though not as the "Main staples" of midlaners who are mainly projectile reliant.

Thresh Q has a wind up period with a visual and sound effect, which is what makes it telegraphed. You can dodge it. The biggest difference between him and Blitz is that it's slightly faster and has longer range on Thresh. Some may argue that a 0.5 second telegraph period isn't enough. But it's still telegraphed.

SexySoapTurtle1 votes

{quoted}

Once upon a time, Darius was so broken he could 1v5 an entire team at level 1 without difficulty. And this was on live. He's nowhere as unfair as he used to be. And as full damage, he could penta dunk your whole team before you got the chance to do anything.

I've had a lot of fun playing against Yasuo, though not as the "Main staples" of midlaners who are mainly projectile reliant.

Thresh Q has a wind up period with a visual and sound effect, which is what makes it telegraphed. You can dodge it. The biggest difference between him and Blitz is that it's slightly faster and has longer range on Thresh. Some may argue that a 0.5 second telegraph period isn't enough. But it's still telegraphed.

There's something brown on your nose

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Once upon a time, Darius was so broken he could 1v5 an entire team at level 1 without difficulty. And this was on live. He's nowhere as unfair as he used to be. And as full damage, he could penta dunk your whole team before you got the chance to do anything.

I've had a lot of fun playing against Yasuo, though not as the "Main staples" of midlaners who are mainly projectile reliant.

Thresh Q has a wind up period with a visual and sound effect, which is what makes it telegraphed. You can dodge it. The biggest difference between him and Blitz is that it's slightly faster and has longer range on Thresh. Some may argue that a 0.5 second telegraph period isn't enough. But it's still telegraphed.

Except you forget the only people who counter yasuo don't have any skill shots. Thresh's hook is kind of telegraphed (animation doesn't show the direction). Darius wasn't even reworked by CertainT, it was them trying to fix the mess he had made.

ReshiKillim1 votes

Yeah, but they fixed his 1v5 quite a while back. It ended up going to live because other champions were more broken and needing of nerfs.

I know Darius wasn't reworked by CertainlyT, though his original kit wasn't terrible and unfair after they fixed the rushed job the balance team at the time gave him. (It was rather busy freaking out over Draven being even scarier) The original numbers were going to be rather balanced (But somebody gave him a wrong number by accident at the last moment)

When I said not as main staples of mid, I don't just mean Yasuo counters. I've had some pretty good success with AP Maokai (And others) vs Yasuo (Which was pretty hilarious in lane) and it was hella fun for both of us.

The most broken thing about Thresh is his lantern that redirects Sion's ult.

Penns1 votes

There is no way a champ cound ever 1v5 a team level 1 kek. The thing about Thresh Q is that he just doesnt face the direction he throws it, which makes it not telegraphed whatsoever. You never know where he throws it. Xeraths Q/ ult is telegraphed, Tahms ult is telegraphed, but Thresh hook...

ReshiKillim1 votes

Once upon a time, Nasus could 1 shot anyone just by touching them with his ult. When he had only 1 item. No joke. Jax could also 1v5 at level 1 for a long while.

Darius had something that was only recently fixed, that completely ignored all escape abilities or attempts to escape. Regardless if you flashed or teleported or dashed. For a long time, he could exploit this to pull people all the way to his fountain regardless of what you tried to do.

And as for Thresh, telegraphed just means it alerts you to the fact that he's doing it and is most likely going to throw it at you. It's got a warning on it, so it is telegraphed.

Penns1 votes

Thats a bug, not actually 1v5ing tho. Its like saying "if the whole enemy team walks under your turret at level 1 while doing nothing, you 1v5 killed them".

It is a "warning", but it doesnt show you where hes hooking, so its not telegraphed imo. Before Xeraths Q does damage, it literally shows you where hes going to shoot it. Its the same with Rek Sai ult. You know she ulted (hooked) but you dont know where.

ReshiKillim1 votes

It was still something that allowed Darius to solo penta your whole team without you being able to do anything back. And Jax was able to 1v5 at level 1 without any bugs. (Rip Dodge stat) There's a notorious line up of champions who could level 1 1v5 back in the day, which is why I'm very much fine with the current state of things.

Some things are unbalanced, but League has gotten so much healthier over the years. I even consider the release Juggernaut Skarner healthy compared to what a lot of the champions used to have.

Rek'Sai's ult does show which tunnel entrance she's porting to if you can see her entrances.

And I still think Thresh hook is telegraphed, but just in a different manner from other telegraphed abilities.

Killer of Poros3 votes

His kits are always frustrating to play against regardless of their state of balance.

Ralanr1 votes

From what I can tell: Frustration.

Kivolan1 votes

How is Yasuo fun to play against? He's the epitome of a champion that can fall so far behind and still be a huge threat due to his huge mobility, shields and 100% crit chance by building one item. You do not get to make plays against a Yasuo, Yasuo gets to make plays against you.

Kalista has the same problem. Landing a skillshot on her? Please.

Thresh and Blitzcrank share the same toxic kit... Zoning bot lane by their sheer existence and the threat of a pull.

Darius (pre-rework) and Zyra were probably the most balanced things he's created.

I don't know why anyone would complain about Zed... I've always found him kind of meh? Like, when he ults someone and reappears, flash or dash away and he's useless for the rest of the fight.

ReshiKillim1 votes

I do have a lot of fun playing against Yasuo. With a good number of champions or champion roles (Mostly considered off meta) I've bullied him really hard in lane and denied him the chance to attempt at making plays.

There hasn't been any problem landing a skillshot except for me but the ones that travel slowly. But hey, if you aim right you can still hit her even with Bard's skillshot. Though she's leaping around like a monkey on drugs, you can still hit her with a good number of skillshots.

Naut is a lot scarier than both Blitz and Thresh in my opinion, as he's got same amount of CC but is harder to kill.

stuartk111 votes

The reason why the boards have a hate for CertainlyT probably lies in the champions that he designs (Yasuo and Kalista in particular) tend to have designs that are overloaded yet creative. Kalista and Thresh in particular have been overpowered in the past, but still prove to be problematic for the balance team. Thresh tends to be head-and-shoulders above all other supports in being the sort of Jack-of-all-trades champion, but without any types of weakness to inherently exploit or find in the kit when he is picked, and Kalista has proven to bully out large portions of champion types. Even after being nerfed so many times, she still proves to be a problem. She is a champion that can be overpowered in the hands of anyone with enough practice with her, and can probably be seen most in higher elos a lot more than lower elos.

The hate towards his designs is understandable, but the hate towards him is something that is unjustified.

A Miss Fortune1 votes

I think the hate is justified.

He's making champions that are hurting a game that people love, on top of that the champions he makes unfairly ruins games. Seriously it doesn't take much skill to play Kalista, and most Kalista players have no idea what to do, but god forbid that you're up against a Kalista main and don't have 5 Annies on your team.

colesy1 votes

because who the fuck even enjoys playing against kalista? bursting down her support? yeah well she'll just grab them and make them invulnerable. want to even get close to her to damage her? well you better hope you have point and click unconditional hard CC because she'll just dash away otherwise. oh, and when she gets a QSS you better hope that CC is a knockup rather than a stun otherwise she'll keep hopping along. her design is extremely toxic.

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

People loathe him because he brings an extra layer of complexity to the game that many people hate. That's an oversimplification, obviously, but that's a decent synopsis, in my opinion.

I think those people are right, honestly. I don't loathe him as a person, but I do not like his vision for the game. His champs are so overloaded that you can't possibly understand how to even play AGAINST them without reading walls of text. It ruins the experience, in my opinion. Kalista, Tresh, and Yasuo are all examples of this. Here's my own semi-bulleted list.

Yasuo: The main problem here is that it isn't at all obvious what his wall is going to block and what it isn't (especially for new players). I find myself constantly wondering which abilities I can get away with using around him. Furthermore, his ult can only be used on knocked up targets, and there is NO CLUE in the visuals that can indicate this. You have to know his kit to know that, and it absolutely DOES change the way you play against him.

Thresh: His hook has two outcomes even after he lands it. The lantern mechanics have been a huge issue (lantern blocking still ruins my day routinely, even when Thresh is on MY team). It's just too complicated of a mechanic.

Kalista: Rend stacks have bad interactions with Dragon and Baron. Again, as a jungler, you're responsible for knowing her kit to even play against her. She was the first champ with an ult that could be used on an ally without their consent, which can be used for massive trolling (I know it often isn't, but we're talking about complexity, not outcomes). Q's interaction is complicated, with all the things that can happen. I believe it procs rend stacks, and it can go through a target it kills? Right? I'm not even sure, and I've been playing this game for 4 years. It's ludicrous.

So, there's your answer. I didn't post it to disagree with you, though I do. I posted it to explain to you why people don't like his design philosophy. It's about the complexity that previous champs don't have. Simple champs are more fun in the game, imo. Many people agree. CertainlyT does not, and that's why he isn't more liked.

As an aside, I also think he speaks in a pretty arrogant tone. I'm not sure if that's a classic example of the difficulty in reading the tone in text, or if he actually is that smug. Hard to say. I don't personally hold it against him, but I think some people do. So there's another possible reason.

hgjkdlsaf jeldvb1 votes

It's because everything he touches becomes a toxic mess. They're awful to play against.

Rain NT1 votes

I dont play his champions but I do think the complexity of the champions he makes does make this game more fun. Its like everyone that hates him likes to play checkers and people that likes him likes to play chess lol. Now if you want to play football, then play Dota because the game is alot more difficult to understand than League. League is more like Soccer, it has less rules because it has less plays; but it does still retain a level of difficulty, skill, and complexity to play competitively. Riot gave us a good mixture of both, casual and a complexity design of the game and I think thats the way they are moving forward. And if people don't like that I dont think they should play this game anymore lol. Its no longer the casual easy-going game to release stress.. it actually makes more stress once you hit ranked.

Burnt Iron King1 votes

I didn't dislike him before but ever since the Mordekaiser rework and how he handled it I can't stop myself from harboring some dislike for the man :/

A Miss Fortune1 votes

Thresh overloaded, no fall offs, maybe even overpowered currently or in the past?

Kalista infinite dashes, infinite scaling damage, including % health damage, and of course infinite slows and a free 1200 unit dash/knockup for her Support

Darius binary champion with not much way to outplay you but not much way to outplay him, right now he's only viable because he heals more than Mundo with 6 Warmorgs.

Yasuo I keep forgetting how many passsives this guy has. Dashes on a 0.1 second cooldown and his only weaknesses are negated by his own kit to the point they barely exist.

Oh and the champions he only barely helped with still had balance issues:

Zyra was probably one of the strongest Mid laners ever on release, now probably one of the worst

Zed absolute cancer. he's not overpowered at all anymore, but he's not fun to fight and can carry games insanely well.

Blade of Justic1 votes

I don't know what their problem is.

I've never had a problem with any of CertainlyT's champs.

I actually really like CertainlyT's champ designs. It shakes up the game a bit.

Now, Xypherous on the other hand... Riven

When was the last time you heard someone say "Laning against Riven is fun and interactive."?

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