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Why you should never consider the match to be over until it's actually over, in one image.

ReshiKillim·Jan 20, 2018·54 votes·3,997 views

https://i.imgur.com/6VwItBk.png)]

I was the Kayn on the blue team, and for reference, the enemy Jhin was 10/0 at 13 minutes, and our team had 2 kills to their 14. As you can probably expect, team morale was low, and a good portion of the team was feeling like surrendering because they felt like the match was already lost.

It wasn't easy, but with some encouragement, I managed to keep my teammates sticking to playing instead of giving up. Through communication, positioning, focusing down the important targets, and actually working together as a team, we managed to stop them from pushing and eked out enough time for us to slowly start catching up in power.

Don't flame your teammates for playing badly, try to offer tips for playing better. If they're tilting, try to be encouraging. If they're flaming you, being toxic, or just complaining that the match is unwinnable, ignore it or mute them. Don't get caught up in it and create a negativity loop, because if you do that's when you truly lose.

If you're looking at a match as having lost before it's actually over, you're not going to be making decisions or plays that can tip the game in your favor, or even potentially win you the game in one go. Don't think you can't carry a heavy team, no matter what champion or role you're playing. Because that's not true. Solo queue is no exception to this.

You can carry a team that's behind simply by being a team leader, making calls on objectives and communicating. Your presence in a fight, even if you're far behind, can make the difference. A single autoattack, heal, shield, buff, ignite, or any ability really, can be what makes or breaks a match for your team.

> TLDR: If you don't let yourself tilt, don't give up, stay positive and stick to playing the best you can, you can unite a disorganized and tilting team, and win matches that seem completely hopeless.

Edit: https://i.imgur.com/gNYIHSQ.png)] My team, for reference.

[sg-ahri-2]

107 Comments

RatpieJan 20, 201827 votes

I get so tired of people constantly calling for early surrender vote, because teh other team gets a lead. I often play late game champs, and have had many come back wins. So many people just give up it is insane. The most fun games I have are the hard fought ones.

Dankest KhanJan 20, 20188 votes

Some of us value our time and don't see a point in continuing a game where the other team is way ahead. Win or lose it's the same amount of LP no matter how long the match is.

RatpieJan 20, 20189 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dankest Khan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AkywBlWE,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-01-20T21:23:40.163+0000)

Some of us value our time and don't see a point in continuing a game where the other team is way ahead. Win or lose it's the same amount of LP no matter how long the match is.

Hrm, and I always played games to try and win and do my best. Maybe I am doing it wrong /s

HeimerLmaoJan 20, 20187 votes

ELO IS MORE IMPORTANT, WHO PLAYS GAMES FOR FUN /s

Dankest KhanJan 20, 20186 votes

I don't find the game fun when half of my team is basically inting. I'd prefer to exit that match and start a new one on the chance that I get more evenly matched teams.

Plastic 5 ADCJan 21, 20182 votes

Agreed [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

muted team chatJan 21, 20183 votes

Yeahhhhhhhh but most of the time it's a waste of time. This has been proven on reddit mathematically. If the goal is to climb your net-LP-gain is highest when you can recognize a waste-of-time game and end it (as a loss) ASAP. Then, you win the next one.

The worst thing you can do is spend 60m in a game and lose it if you're under your real elo.

Lil Homie bustaJan 21, 20187 votes

But refusing to surrender when there's one or more afk is bs though.

Velzard of KozJan 20, 201822 votes

TL;DR Our Vayne finally finished her third item. Hehe.

undesirable teamJan 21, 20182 votes

this. only reason team had a chance is cause they let vayne through ban phase xd

Athenes LuluJan 21, 20184 votes

Except people still demand on giving up when someone on my team picks Vayne or (insert some hypercarry).

TerozuJan 21, 20183 votes

For me, the last 4 vaynes ive seen have all fed to the point the enemy team destroys nexus before she can get 3rd item. 3 were on my team. Ive only seen 4 vaynes this year.

GayFluffyUnicornJan 21, 20182 votes

When the enemy has twitch or tristana? Yeah.

NyarlathοtepJan 20, 201813 votes

This kind of things happen once in a blue moon. Im up stalling until late game UNLESS the enemy has a hypercarry ( azir/vayne etc ) OR my team absolutely refuses to start playing smart.

Dankest KhanJan 20, 20188 votes

Yeah I mean everyone loves talking about that one time they had a comeback but in reality comebacks are like 1:100 games for the majority of the players.

I'd rather just take the loss and get on with the next match instead of wasting time being trapped in a losing match because my bot lane fed 15 kills in the first 10 minutes and now refuses to surrender even though their other teams fed hypercarry is shredding our team every fight.

RatpieJan 20, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dankest Khan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AkywBlWE,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2018-01-20T21:21:12.250+0000)

Yeah I mean everyone loves talking about that one time they had a comeback but in reality comebacks are like 1:100 games for the majority of the players.

I'd rather just take the loss and get on with the next match instead of wasting time being trapped in a losing match because my bot lane fed 15 kills in the first 10 minutes and now refuses to surrender even though their other teams fed hypercarry is shredding our team every fight.

I usually play late game champs, and I have had frequent comebacks, not 1/100. If you play snowballers, then yes you could be in that situation.

Dankest KhanJan 20, 20183 votes

I usually play late game champs, and I have had frequent comebacks, not 1/100. If you play snowballers, then yes you could be in that situation.

Not wrong, but I'd prefer not having to play a snowballer/hypercarry every game because my teams get stomped constantly. Another problem with the game tbh.

WimbledofyJan 21, 20182 votes

Well if people stopped giving up so easily and learned to play from behind, the comebacks would be much more frequent.

VoraciousXJan 20, 20188 votes

Just because you won a game like that with a late game hypercarry and someone who can go 0-10 in the first 10 minutes and then be 20-10 by the end of the game despite how poorly his early game was, doesn't mean EVERY game should be treated with the same mindset. It depends on the champions you're working with whether or not you should throw in the towel. If the enemy team has a late game hypercarry and they're snowballing, you're pretty much dunzo. There was likely no way that Jhin was gonna win vs that Vayne late game. The word **never ** is extremely misused in this situation.

DNFVixenJan 20, 20187 votes

This is league of oneshots people are gonna tilt fast and quit, the game is in an unhealthy state.

ArfBarkBoofJan 20, 20187 votes

If the enemy Akali is dancing around in our base and two shots virtually everybody on the team with sixteen kills you can be your ass I'm just gonna sit on the pad or push for a surrender vote. Don't have the time of day to keep getting deleted in Silver fucking IV because somebody let her past the ban phase. You may not agree with me, but Silver players are shit in general and I don't even trust myself to not get her fed.

FOR JUSTICEJan 20, 20184 votes

I think youre missing the point of the thread.... XD

HaIlMonitorJan 20, 20183 votes

Not really, you can be down 2 kills and a tower at 15, yeah dont surrender, or you can be 35/5 by 18:53 like my WW game I just had and we were killing the nexus as they surrender.

https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2698868282/214760743?tab=overview

Also it depends on who the champs are. If they have a Vayne/kog/Jax/Riven/Yas ect that are super fed, you probably wont ever win or have the chance too. Might as well just surrender.

XIVIVIXJan 20, 20186 votes

All that image says is "Vayne wins".

HibekiJan 21, 20186 votes

Congratulations, you found the 1 game where you were able to make a comeback out of a thousand.

The rest of us value the time spent that would be wasted by you hoping to make a comeback where it wont happen.

RatpieJan 21, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Congratulations, you found the 1 game where you were able to make a comeback out of a thousand.

The rest of us value the time spent that would be wasted by you hoping to make a comeback where it wont happen.

I think comebacks are easier than people paint them. Often they come around a poor Baron grab that is warded, or over-extension trying to take the base turrets. I have even had multiple games just this week where they had us down to the Nexus turrets and we came back. Especially if the game is later, if you get one good wipe, you can flip the game. Most of the failed attempts come when there is a Yasuo who keeps going off in the jungle solo and getting killed instead of playing home defense at base and fighting for the right moment.

YuGiHoJan 20, 20185 votes

that looks like 40 min of stress and suffering to me. just being able to say i won that mach is not worth the 40+ min of emotional torment for me.

ShiniXIIJan 20, 20185 votes

ur trying to pull of some moral highground shit, even though you literally won thanks to vayne's retarded kit.

MarshbouyJan 20, 20184 votes

I agree. In a recent game that I played I did completely shit. I went 0/3 in the first ten minutes of the game and our team started to fall apart, but we managed to get it together and squeak out a win by staying positive, focused, and not getting tilted.

LordGeovanniJan 22, 20181 votes

{quoted}

I agree. In a recent game that I played I did completely shit. I went 0/3 in the first ten minutes of the game and our team started to fall apart, but we managed to get it together and squeak out a win by staying positive, focused, and not getting tilted.

0/3 isnt bad people just cry really fast

Ahri BakaJan 20, 20184 votes

I agree m I'm tired of having the surrender vote popping up in the middle of the 2 seconds Fight I have against Zed so I get confused I'm tired of begging my Yasuo to stop feeding and play normally , but meh , and what feels the worst is , after having a huge comeback because of carrying or removing my team's tilt but at the end no honors

Snowman ArcJan 21, 20184 votes

Well, no offense, but it seems like you are in a Blind Pick game, which means you are probably playing in low ELO, which in turn means that having comebacks isn't a big deal because it's low ELO. It's not even a ranked game, so people probably wanted to have fun and not end the game.

The chances of such a comeback happening are very tiny, and probably are only gonna happen if the enemy team just doesn't really care to end the game. What I mean is it's probably outside your control to turn around such a hard-losing game. Now, count in the fact that you just showed a Blind Pick game, and assuming you are low ELO, I can't really take this seriously, no offense again. What happens in lower ELO shouldn't be used as advice on how to play the game, because the correct state of how to play the game is how the strong players do.

Now, even if we have all the circumstances right, even if this was a Challenger Ranked game and such a comeback did indeed happen (which is very highly unlikely, but let's accept it), it's probably something like a 1 in 1000 games, maybe even less. Tryharding for a comeback in 1k games just to maybe get 1 win isn't ideal if you want to climb or for your mental state or for just having fun in the game. You need to realize that if you want to climb (since we are talking about how games are winnable), it's a long run and you need to be patient and perservere and have a lot of mental and physical stamina. Sometimes, you just need to accept that a game is 99% lost and move on to the next one to save energy for that game, if you know what I mean. It's kinda like poker; the currency here is energy vs money. Sometimes, you let a pot go because your chances of winning are low and save money for the next one. Same here, you save energy and avoid becoming tilted or disappointed or whatever just so you can be a lot more competitive and ready for the next.

Even from a time standpoint, delaying games by 20 minutes just so that you can get that 1% win is just gonna delay you way too much. You are gonna play less games (assuming like 20% less games) just so you can have 1 more win out of 1k games. Not worth.

It's one thing to not give up and try, and another thing to realize when you need to let something go and try again the next time. Knowing the difference between these two can get you a long way, friend.

AzadetheJan 21, 20182 votes

I turn games like this in ranked..... as Support. It's not impossible.

Furthermore, your math is wrong.

An absolute loss is worth a 2 game setback. That's an minimum a 40 minute expenditure. Just because you surrender one game doesn't mean the next won't also be a loss. You're basically taking a game where you have about a 50% chance to win and saying, "I'll accept 48%."

Zed geniusJan 20, 20183 votes

It really depends. A team with vayne/azir/jarvan/janna/maokai has a lot of chances to come back lategame, but if your team comp is something like renekton/lee sin/zed/lucian/thresh you might as well open if you get behind in early game

The Bad TouchJan 20, 20183 votes

https://imgur.com/a/p0z0L

^Pretty much

Red team was up 12,800g at one point. Doesn't matter if you have wave clear,can stall long enough, and have a mutliple ADCs. Paper towers and all that.

Plat 1 in promo's for D5 Sol can only carry so hard vs Bronze and Silvers. Eventually the point and click power of Yi wins.

And of course like every single Yas... he was trolling.

TheMissitJan 20, 20183 votes

I had this too yesterday! https://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/3498311646/223605303?tab=overview It was really funny, one of my premates was our Kayn(Jungle) and he had forgotten to pick smite... But the enemies couldn't finish the game even with their huge gold lead and multiple barons. Meanwhile I(Teemo), my other premate(Jinx), and our Nasus (who was 0/13 at min 20) scaled. At minute 15 they were at our nexus turrets. At minute 42 we crushed their nexus. Never give up!

SwiftKitten88Jan 21, 20183 votes

this is unranked... non draft... how mnay of your teammates which you would have lost and surrendered at 15. winnable or not if the game is no fun don't hold 3 other players hostage

RatpieJan 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

this is unranked... non draft... how mnay of your teammates which you would have lost and surrendered at 15. winnable or not if the game is no fun don't hold 3 other players hostage

If you are playing unranked, what is the rush? Likely you will get thrown into the same thing again. Play to win.

SwiftKitten88Jan 21, 20183 votes

{quoted}

If you are playing unranked, what is the rush? Likely you will get thrown into the same thing again. Play to win.

whats the rush? some of use work for 8-10 hours a day... we don't have all day to play league... i would rather not waste the time i have playing a match like that and not having fun.

its pretty inconsiderate to act as if everyone here just has the free time to play league all day.

RatpieJan 21, 20181 votes

{quoted}

whats the rush? some of use work for 8-10 hours a day... we don't have all day to play league... i would rather not waste the time i have playing a match like that and not having fun.

its pretty inconsiderate to act as if everyone here just has the free time to play league all day.

You missed the point, rushing from one game to the next does not guarantee and improved game condition. Also, I was more focusing on the fact that people need to be happy with how they play and realize a lot of this game is out of their control at this point. Maybe I am weird that I do not enjoy rolling a team easy. I like hard fought games. I hate having a player on the other team being AFK jsut as much as I hate it when one of my own does. I also dislike having a horrible skill mismatch in my teams favor as much as I hate it for the other teams favor.
I judge the fun of the game based on how well I play and not on how others do. I can be happy about a game I played, because I played well. If I played crappy then it is my fault and I learn from it. The onyl part that gets to me is when a game mechanic is so broken, that you cannot even play functionally, but that is a different matter.

SwiftKitten88Jan 21, 20182 votes

{quoted}

You missed the point, rushing from one game to the next does not guarantee and improved game condition. Also, I was more focusing on the fact that people need to be happy with how they play and realize a lot of this game is out of their control at this point. Maybe I am weird that I do not enjoy rolling a team easy. I like hard fought games. I hate having a player on the other team being AFK jsut as much as I hate it when one of my own does. I also dislike having a horrible skill mismatch in my teams favor as much as I hate it for the other teams favor.
I judge the fun of the game based on how well I play and not on how others do. I can be happy about a game I played, because I played well. If I played crappy then it is my fault and I learn from it. The onyl part that gets to me is when a game mechanic is so broken, that you cannot even play functionally, but that is a different matter.

its not losing or winning.. its having fun, if my team is complete morons who keep running in 1v5 i dont want to play with them anymore.

AMYS GRAVEJan 21, 20183 votes

The only reason that happened is because vayne needs nerfs. Once that happens this kind of thing wont be possible again.

deadlychuckJan 21, 20183 votes

Truth is that the games snowball enough that it requires the winning team to lose their advantage rather than the losing team to force their way back into the game.

This is a product of how much better offense is itemized and scales. If you could actually hold at towers and stall the game out while denying objectives, then you would have agency over the recovery of the game, but thanks to the design of the game losing or winning your best option is now to build offense. Because the probability that you can outplay and win a fight with damage is substantially higher than the probability that you can do the same with durability.

It's a stupid corner that riot has back their game into, and unless they take serious steps to recenter the game (which they will not), then it will just keep getting worse, until it's basically the moba equivalent of "One in the Chamber".

AzadetheJan 21, 20182 votes

Nah. it's due to the Bounty Mechanic. Sometimes one team is better at farming and clearing while the other is better at destroying champions. This gets exacerbated by the fact that it only takes one kill to reset a champion to a 300g bounty. Sometimes, one or two carries trade kills in a losing game, thinking they are helping their team. In reality, they are feeding 300g each time vs going off, not dying and playing defensively. When your team feeds 4-5 X kill assists on champs that are not 0/10, they are worth gold. a 300g kill is worth a total of 600 if each person on their team took a part. So if a talon goes 15/15 through 15 trades, that's worth a potential 9000g. 4500g of which went to the other team's carry.

However, if a team of 0/10's is capable of holding a base out where champs can't attack turrets, 1) They aren't worth gold if they die 2) They don't have to go very far to farm, and begin to pick up more CS than if they were roaming and 3) They have good vision and places to move around.

Just stall out the game, until you can finally 5v5 and win, or better, when 1 of their team is split pushing, win a 5v4. A couple of those = win.

The gold mechanic kind of needs changed.

WariosJan 21, 20183 votes

Had one like yours today, didn't even get a +gold advantage at anytime of the game.

https://imgur.com/a/3LEOH

Emerald FangJan 21, 20182 votes

Since this probably happens in less than 1% of games I’m still FFing if it’s 20 to 5 at 15 minutes and our team is flaming in chat.

KanzlerJan 21, 20181 votes

And that's why you're a ~~bitch~~ not honorable person!

Emerald FangJan 21, 20182 votes

It's knowing when the game is actually lost. If my team is getting along and we are losing i'm not surrendering because we can work well and communicate and bring it back. If my bot lane is flaming, top lane feeding 0-20, and jungle just afk farming and not pinging or talking in chat, we cannot make a comeback. Saves 10-20 minutes of precious time sometimes. But if there's a real chance of coming back i'm not going to surrender.

FedoranJan 21, 20182 votes

never surrender

nice tableJan 22, 20182 votes

TL;DR: something happened in a extremely low elo normal game therefore you should do this hehexd

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