139 Comments

Vekkna68 votes

Here's a helpful list of assassins that are non-meta:

Akali Fizz Kassadin Katarina Talon Zed

Here's a helpful list of meta champs you can pick if you want to assassinate something:Ahri Annie Camille Corki Hecarim JarvanIV LeeSin Malphite Pantheon Riven Twitch Vayne Vi Zac Syndra

hunterspec15 votes

{quoted}

Here's a helpful list of assassins that are non-meta:

Akali Fizz Kassadin Katarina Talon Zed

Here's a helpful list of meta champs you can pick if you want to assassinate something:Ahri Annie Camille Corki Hecarim JarvanIV LeeSin Malphite Pantheon Riven Twitch Vayne Vi Zac Syndra

kat is meta

Vekkna6 votes

Yeah, but she's not really an assassin anymore. It takes longer for her W dagger to fall than it takes for any of the other champs I listed to 100-0 you.

Ralanr25 votes

No she's still an assassin. Her burst window was widened, but so was every other assassins burst window.

Saying their burst takes too long to be an assassin is like saying this fire isn't hot enough to burn. If it's already on fire then it's going to burn!

Troll for Trump2 votes

Saying their burst takes too long to be an assassin is like saying this fire isn't hot enough to burn. If it's already on fire then it's going to burn!

No it's not, and that's a poor analogy.

You are travelling from point A to point B. The distance between point A and B is always fixed. Point A represents a target with 100% hp, Point B represents a target with 0% hp (dead).

The assassin burst combo used to be travelling from A to B at 60 mph

Currently it's A to B at maybe 20 mph.

Ralanr18 votes

Why are we using the pre rework kill windows of assassins as a baseline when the entire point of the assassin rework was to increase that window?

10110011100012 votes

Because assassins like Kha'Zix and Rengar still have that exact same window where they just dump a buttload of damage in less than a second, whereas champions like Kat has to masterfully fist you with dagger positioning in an extended 3 second trade in which she isn't even allowed to CC you.

Ralanr16 votes

Rengar's kill window early game got heavily reduced and only gets short when fed. Kha'zix only has a high kill window against isolated targets because that's his gimmick.

Other assassins don't have such short kill windows because they were given other tools to work with or were purposely extended. They are still assassins, especially when the old kill window was problematic in the first place.

1011001110003 votes

We call them kill windows, but it's not like assassins actually spend all their time dealing all that damage. Their damage is still insanely high, but their ability to apply it got largely inconsistent in evenly skilled match-ups. It's to the point that enemies have to be oblivious.

Ralanr17 votes

{quoted}

We call them kill windows, but it's not like assassins actually spend all their time dealing all that damage. Their damage is still insanely high, but their ability to apply it got largely inconsistent in evenly skilled match-ups. It's to the point that enemies have to be oblivious.

#Well gee, it's almost like an assassin works best when least expected.

10110011100011 votes

Yeah, it's almost like assassins only work when the players are bad.

Great.

Ralanr14 votes

Considering how assassins have always been pubstompers, nothing really changed except that they're easier to balance long term.

10110011100010 votes

They're also inferior when a significantly higher amount of champions who are NOT assassins have shorter kill windows, more frequent kill windows, or outright more reliable kill windows. So many champions in the game outright perform the duty of killing carries so much more easily and quickly that playing an assassin for that stringent purpose is moot.

Ralanr6 votes

That's not surprising since we're in the midst of a bunch of class reworks.

Ralanr7 votes

{quoted}

We had a mage update prior to the assassin class update. Logic dictates that the mage update would have dealt with the issue of certain mages dealing excessive amounts of damage reliably with short burst windows, but it didn't. This is despite the fact that mages have actually lost a significant amount of AP in their itemization. The same holds true for a variety of top laners (hah, "divers"). Nothing has truly been done to address this issue as a whole, so when you update an entire class currently competing just to hold their own class identity, making them outright worse at it doesn't make any sense.

Except the key part of the assassin update (or rather one key part) was to make them easier to balance as in the long run. Which Riot so far believes it was a success there.

There were also a bunch of people complaining that the mage update was a massive nerf. The worlds hit and suddenly mages were OP.

Pop0001005 votes

the reason Syndra among others have shorter kill windows is because they have poor target selection(a good zed has a very large threat area, compared to Syndra's 100-0 distance. They usually have a escape also, Syndra and champs like Diana don't) riot has said that is difference between a Assassin and a normal bursty champ.

TL;DR: Assassins have tools that faster burst based champs wont have.

1011001110002 votes

Champions like Syndra make up for their lack of mobility with utility and cc threat. Assassins, a primarily melee class, have no utility, and thus require mobility to get to their target, stick to their target, deal damage, and maybe get away if they're fast enough. Mages on the other hand, have the luxury of being able to apply mountains of damage at range, so they DO NOT NEED MOBILITY.

The mere fact that Syndra can stun you at 600+ range to threaten a 100-0 kill combo, OR Annie can drop a flaming bear with a stun to combo to death, OR Ahri can utilize a combination of CC, mobility, and reasonably high damage output to execute targets is a testament to their ability to lock down opponents without needing mobility.

Both assassins and mages (with other champions) can effectively execute the same role of killing carries, but the former generally does not have the utility to be more reliable in performing such a role.

Tl;dr: Mages and other champions have tools that assassins do not have that make them better at killing squishies.

Troll for Trump7 votes

Because of a few champs having the same, if not an even quicker burst window than pre-rework(Ok, probably only rengar).

Old assassins were seen as a problem because their kill windows were faster than other champs. Which was the point. They were supposed to kill targets in the quickest kill window among any other champ types (marksman, juggernaut,tank, mage, etc.).

Current assassins have their burst windows forcefully extended by gating them with cds, or some other out-of-the-way proccing method. That's good for counterplay for assassins, but it causes them to lose their niche of "fastest kill window". Many ADCs or bruisers, even juggernauts can at least kill targets as fast as assassins, or even faster. In addition, those champs have other bonuses that the assassins don't have. Talon has less sustained dmg and tankiness than Darius, for instance, and Darius can burst just as quickly. Vayne can do what Talon does, but with more self-peel, more sustained dmg, and arguably more range.

The only things assassins have over those champs are either:

  1. roaming
  2. mobility/get-out-of-jail-cards

However, most champs still have more get-out-of-jail-cards, or ones that are better. Riot has also added a lot more mobility with rage/phage effects, %ms increase(crit items, runaan's, youmuus being purchasable on non-assassin champs, etc.), or an overabundance off cc in champion kits (frozen mallet, Rylai's earlier).

So that leaves roaming. Assassins do have kits that can gank, but what makes them better than other champs at roaming? Nothing, with a few exceptions.

Talon E Rengar R Leblanc R+R

And some champs lose their in-combat mobility, or some dmg aspect in exchange for the roaming that they . get(Talon)

The key is relativity. What makes an assassin an assassin? A kill window quicker than other champs is probably at their core. Riot has extended a few other things, such as roaming, and get-out-of-jail cards, but that wasn't executed as well as it could've been. With a kill window that's on equal grounds(or lower, sometimes) in relativity to other champs, you no longer have a good answer to the question, "why pick X or X assassin?"

Vekkna3 votes

Yes, her burst window was widened to the point of no longer being an assassin.

Ralanr5 votes

{quoted}

Yes, her burst window was widened to the point of no longer being an assassin.

As I asked below

Why are we using the pre rework kill windows of assassins as a baseline when the entire point of the assassin rework was to increase that window?

Vekkna5 votes

We aren't using pre-rework kill windows. I'm judging that based on the kill windows of most champs in the game with the exception of, like...support tanks, early ADCs (some), and some utility champs.

Sexualsaurus2 votes

item 3070 Quinn "I one shot too"

SzGamer2272 votes

To my understanding, having the ability to assassinate something doesn't make you an assassin. The speed of burst isn't what separates assassins from other champions, it's how slippery they are. Build full AD and any champion can assassinate a squishy, but assassins' have lots of mobility built into their kits and (when played properly) aren't forced to take a whole team head-on when they assassinate the back line.

Jbels48 votes

They should both say defeat, because botlane fed

Ralanr28 votes

You know, I get that you're really salty about what they did to Akali (poor thing. Doctors say she'll never walk again) but maybe you should post this stuff in M&G.

Akali is SO HOT8 votes

NEVER

Akali is SO HOT10 votes

I will always be salty about the Assassin update.

dominusx2 votes

im already over it . hint i'm a rengar main [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

PureUtterCancer5 votes

Weird almost like your champ became stronger during that update... huh weird.

item 3070 Zed item 3070 Akali item 3070 Shen

Nuparu2 votes

He's not stronger in an Assassin sense.

Reliability is much lower now and need to snowball is much higher...

TequilaZombie22 votes

It's a real balance issue tho. Should be treated as such. At least it's higher quality than most of the Gameplay posts and that's saying a lot, given this post.

Ralanr7 votes

{quoted}

It's a real balance issue tho. Should be treated as such. At least it's higher quality than most of the Gameplay posts and that's saying a lot, given this post.

By like a millimeter, maybe.

Jeddy0176 votes

{quoted}

Poor thing. Doctors say she'll never walk again.

They had the money to give her new legs, but they choose to give them to Camille instead.

nm101021 votes

I will post the fix for you here as well : ^)

https://i.gyazo.com/0b725f382de74f11394ae0ff81133d2a.png

Hello I am Bird2 votes

THE LEPER!

Darkest dungeon is my shit.

Papa Andrei9 votes

Support main here, I don't mind this >:D

Alex h87218 votes

Not as good as the "How to pick your support when autofilled" flowchart. 4/10

zacktootall5 votes

im only downvoting cuz this isnt under memes and games

Kinky Fizz16 votes

adc main spotted

zacktootall8 votes

nope top main jg secondary

Michael Sykes5 votes

I don't even know why people downvoted this.

zacktootall2 votes

witch "this" are you referring?

Hello I am Bird3 votes

The comment saying you were a top main.

PPPPPPPPPPPP2705 votes

Only assassins that seem to be functioning decently right now out of the update is Katarina and Kha'Zix. Rengar is possibly still useful but never seen enough of him.

Elewd5 votes

its cuz rengar is always banned now

Akali is SO HOT7 votes

Rengar isn't really as good as people make him out to be. He has one of the lowest winrates of the Assassins and only has a high banrate because people don't like playing against him. Sure he still has that 100-0 potential, but that is still really all he brings to the table and he still gets fucked really hard in teamfights because if he chooses to use his empowered W over Q for the CC immunity he loses out on a ton of damage and if he chooses Q over W then he has trouble getting the kill and then not getting chain CCed for an easy kill.

Ralanr2 votes

Wow, almost like it's intended for him to make a choice between killing and surviving.

Though honestly he still feels more like a diver in function than an assassin.

Best princess EU2 votes

every ranged champions in the game can survive and kill at the same time

rengar sucks right now, his win rate is as low as talon and he's only good if you play him bruiser or if the enemy team are so dumb they can't cc you before you get 4 stacks/can't be around their carry

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