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The reasoning behind “it’s just preseason lul”

Kairoptra··22 votes·10,748 views

Before we do anything, let me just preface this by saying that if you think Riot will have everything fixed by the end of just three patches, then you’re a moron. On the one hand, these changes are HUGE and would take almost any balance team a while to stabilize. On the other, you have the fact that it’s Riot. I think we can all agree, whether you love them or hate them, that they do take their time, for better or for worse.

That said, I think that a lot of good, well-intentioned, logical arguments get lumped in with the above-mentioned nonsensical argument. In particular, I would like to highlight my own:

Regarding the preseason changes, I would imagine that Riot would release them knowing that they wouldn’t be balanced. The way I see it, Riot can’t actually know where a change is going to land until they release it to live servers. They can test it all they want, with their playtesters and the PBE, but there’s certain data you can only get on live. With that knowledge, wouldn’t it only make sense to release the changes as they are and to wait for feedback? Of course they test it for anything that is obvious and easy to fix, but there are certain changes you can only make once you have the opinion of the public.

I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO STOP COMPLAINING

However, if this reasoning is sound, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you should at least complain more sympathetically? Calling this preseason a failure and calling for the balance team to be fired is outright unfair when the preseason has only just started. They’re only now starting to get feedback; give them some time to process it.

I’m not saying that the problems will fix themselves in any short amount of time (I think we all know better than that), but you have to understand that the members of the balance team are humans, too.

24 Comments

Madsin2524 votes

It took them 9 months to "fix" upfront damage.

We need more bitching, a lot more.

Kairoptra4 votes

For broad problems like that that have been going on a lot longer, yes, absolutely. However, in terms of the specific changes made this preseason (e. g. Turret plating, stat shards, bounty changes, etc.), we need to dial back the negativity and focus more on trying to work with Riot to get them fixed.

Nausicäa 4 votes

{quoted}

For broad problems like that that have been going on a lot longer, yes, absolutely. However, in terms of the specific changes made this preseason (e. g. Turret plating, stat shards, bounty changes, etc.), we need to dial back the negativity and focus more on trying to work with Riot to get them fixed.

Except they dont fix shit? Look back at every fucking preseason patch for the last couple of years.

They make the game worse, barely do anything about it in the actual preseason then say they will do more work in mid season. EVERY FUCKING YEAR without fail.

SangreDeNoche1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Nausicäa ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k7L2Pdi0,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T06:03:57.565+0000)

Except they dont fix shit? Look back at every fucking preseason patch for the last couple of years.

They make the game worse, barely do anything about it in the actual preseason then say they will do more work in mid season. EVERY FUCKING YEAR without fail.

Then mid season comes and repeat. Then end of season comes and repeat. It's so fukin ridiculous now, it pains me to think about.

Łμst1 votes

Riot doesn't even reply to gameplay boards anymore. They do NOT work with the community whatsoever. How do you expect to work with someone who fails to even communicate or talk to their player base which literally RUNS THEIR GAME. Riot is ASHAMED of themselves so they just stopped communicating with the community.

Karn Bishop1 votes

Turret plating is an complete failure, it shouldn't drop gold, the reward for killing a turret used to be more map control unfortunately macro play does not matter anymore.

GigglesO3 votes

{quoted}

It took them 9 months to "fix" upfront damage.

We need more bitching, a lot more.

pssshhhhh its just preseason, riot will fix it... pssshhhhh its just early season riot will fix it. Pshh now we wait for mid season because we are too far, don't worry we will fix it then. Oh you didn't want us to do net neutral changes... well now its worlds, next preseason

Preseason: "Well it is just preseason these things take time"

Warlord Rhinark7 votes

The way I see it, Riot can’t actually know where a change is going to land until they release it to live servers. They can test it all they want, with their playtesters and the PBE, but there’s certain data you can only get on live. With that knowledge, wouldn’t it only make sense to release the changes as they are and to wait for feedback?

You are completely right in this.

The thing is.

They don't listen to the feedback that you are saying they are waiting for.

They won't go back on a change they made unless it somehow devastated their economy beyond repair.

Pika Fox2 votes

They DO listen to feedback. Doesnt mean the feedback given is worth acting upon.

Łμst3 votes

They listen to statistical data. That's it. The community means nothing to them other than skins.

Pika Fox1 votes

Statistical data is the only data that really matters.

SwiftKitten884 votes

they don't listen to constructive feedback... they listen to the people who complain the most.

if they listen to contructive feedback and ingored the people complainging about "nothing" we wouldn't even BE in this mess.

the issue is riot balance team does Whatever the fuck the want to regardless if they have absolute proof its bad for the game.

idk WHY, i KNOW they aren't COMPLETELY incompetent, they CAN make good changes.. but someone donest care.

i dont pretend to know WHO... but someone SEROIUSLY don't know what good for the game and they seem to have the final say.

for example in season 6... EVERYONE was absolutely SCREAMING at riot to not do dynamic que.

and theye didnt listen.. RIOT NEVER RECOVERED FROM THAT. SOME people came back.. but many people didn't

and im starting to belive the ones that didn't were the smarter ones.. becuase whoever made THAT CALL is STILL in charge.

STILL has absolutely no idea what is good for the game.. and is STILL ruining everything.

and idk who it is. but THEY are the reason balance is shit.

thins like the scuttle and expoo change

the removal of trackers knife... sightstone and jungle items.

i literally would not be suprised if they removed trinkets next. i literally wouldn't

whoever is in charge has NO FUCKING IDEA what they are doing. it's like they have NEVER played the game.

NepgearDesu7 votes

{quoted}

whoever is in charge has NO FUCKING IDEA what they are doing. it's like they have NEVER played the game.

You can be absolutely sure every single member in every single team at Riot Games knows exactly what they are doing, otherwise they would not have done this job for so long. A question worth answering would be: "what are Riot Games' goals?"

SociopathFriend1 votes

Wasn't it pointed out working at Riot actually has in the contract that you HAVE to play League?

NepgearDesu1 votes

I can't remember having seen anything like this, but I'm not one to look much into this sort of thing. Would you happen to know where this bit of info is available? Edit: Also, and for what little I know, these people seem to be playing the game indeed. And if they don't, well, I suppose you are not obligated to in order to understand that some things bring in more money than some other.

Anatera3 votes

It's been a year since these problems reared their ugly head. I'm more than happy to call it a failure by now.

Kairoptra2 votes

If you mean those that have arisen during season 8, then yes, I agree completely.

However, I’m talking about the specific changes that have only just come in (e. g. Turret plating, stat shards, bounty changes, etc.). They’ve only been around for not even a full patch cycle, so any balance team would need a good bit of time to properly process the feedback.

Nea1043 votes

Guess you missed last "pre-season", and the whole Season 8.

Kairoptra3 votes

Whelp, I found the guy who either saw “it’s just preseason lul” and what looked like me defending it and made the rest up themselves or doesn’t know how to properly articulate their arguments.

Teridax683 votes

I think the problem is simply that the issues with this Preseason can't just be boiled down to balance, as its design is what's angering many players. At their core, the new changes simply add to a meta centered around excessive damage, and follow the same direction as previous Preseasons. Preseason 8 had very much the same issues, and in fact many players for quite some time had pointed out that this year would be make-or-break time for Riot in this respect. The fact that Riot still doesn't seem to have understood what's going on with their own game, and has only doubled down on a design direction that is unpopular among many players, is what is generating so much criticism, not just the imbalance that inevitably comes with each update. This is also why the whole "it's just Preseason" argument doesn't work, not simply because Riot is fundamentally incapable of going back on even the simplest of their balancing mistakes, but because unless Riot reverses direction and implements some entirely different overhaul to the game, they're not going to be fixing the problems they're contributing to right now.

Pika Fox2 votes

The boards arent looking for reason, the boards Wood VI Elite Balance Corps is just looking for whatever the next circle jerk is.

9NINE2 votes

{quoted}

Before we do anything, let me just preface this by saying that if you think Riot will have everything fixed by the end of just three patches, then you’re a moron. On the one hand, these changes are HUGE and would take almost any balance team a while to stabilize. On the other, you have the fact that it’s Riot. I think we can all agree, whether you love them or hate them, that they do take their time, for better or for worse.

That said, I think that a lot of good, well-intentioned, logical arguments get lumped in with the above-mentioned nonsensical argument. In particular, I would like to highlight my own:

Regarding the preseason changes, I would imagine that Riot would release them knowing that they wouldn’t be balanced. The way I see it, Riot can’t actually know where a change is going to land until they release it to live servers. They can test it all they want, with their playtesters and the PBE, but there’s certain data you can only get on live. With that knowledge, wouldn’t it only make sense to release the changes as they are and to wait for feedback? Of course they test it for anything that is obvious and easy to fix, but there are certain changes you can only make once you have the opinion of the public.

I AM NOT ASKING YOU TO STOP COMPLAINING

However, if this reasoning is sound, wouldn’t it stand to reason that you should at least complain more sympathetically? Calling this preseason a failure and calling for the balance team to be fired is outright unfair when the preseason has only just started. They’re only now starting to get feedback; give them some time to process it.

I’m not saying that the problems will fix themselves in any short amount of time (I think we all know better than that), but you have to understand that the members of the balance team are humans, too.

they had a year

Stróc Dúnmharú1 votes

This would be acceptable if they ACTUALLY delivered on what people are asking for: less fucking damage. The "Rune Shards" only giving 5 Armor or 6 MR vs. giving 6 AD or 10 AP is not good enough early game. ONE of the armor runes or MR runes should give 10 of that resist at least, and that would literally just be a starting point. They also need to take that nerf hammer that they've let gather dust for the past 2 years and smash ALL of the keystones. Or hey, better yet, get rid of the current rune system all together and bring back the Season 4/5 Masteries and Runes!

To say nothing of the bullshit that is item 3147 or item 3095! Oh, and item 3031 is also a load of crap. If ADCs and Yasuo want to deal effective damage against full tanks, they should have to get one of these: item 3036 item 3033.

Make Tanks Great Again!

Łμst1 votes

Its the fact that they've been ignoring the community for months that pisses most people off leading to them saying they need to be fired. The simple fact that damage is way higher than season 8 (which mind you was already one shot meta) then they directly went against the entirety of the community and added MORE DAMAGE. That's the reason they should be fired. If you do your job poorly for years you can't expect to keep it, but at rito it's apparently always secured.

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