Life steal is a bit too good on carries.

lolipopevelynn·Jun 28, 2017·56 votes·2,893 views

you shouldnt be allowed to stack life steal on champions that can get 100% crit + 2.0+ atk speed + dmg steroids. its too much. with and is just ridiculous and he isnt the only one who can abuse LS stacking. any carry with steroids and crit abuses it. it gets to a point where if you cant burst them down they literally just sit there standing still AAing you and regening more HP than the dmg you deal. part of the reason assassins cant do their job effectively is because of LS stacking.

81 Comments

ZT XperimentorJun 28, 201726 votes

Lifesteal has always been too good on carries; not just draven, not just because of death's dance either.

RainfallJun 29, 20171 votes

What most players do not understand is that lifesteal was MEANT for carries. Lifesteal makes ADCs have sustain and not be soloed by tanks but still keeps them burstable by assasins.

ZT XperimentorJun 30, 20171 votes

What most marksmen mains don't agree with, is that it's abusable as hell with critical hits. Requiring burst to be the only way to take them down since they'll sustain through anything else.

RainfallJun 30, 20171 votes

Thats Far into the lategame,by that time any apc should be able to kill an adc almost instantly.

ZT XperimentorJun 30, 20171 votes

What late game? There's so much snowballing that any carry can finish a couple items after taking the first tower.

lolipopevelynnJun 30, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Thats Far into the lategame,by that time any apc should be able to kill an adc almost instantly.

no, they cant. Draven item 3006 item 3046 item 3031 item 3139 item 3812 item 3026 summoner 7 just in a 1v1 scenario. add a Soraka or Lulu or Janna or any support that can heal or peel and it is very hard to kill that adc if they know how to kite. you are vastly underestimating what a late game carry can do. most ADCs that die late game are just brain dead drones that think they are sitting turrets. you have no idea how effective life steal gets when you can kite properly and get proper peel. ANY kind of poke damage is negated and made pointless. ANY kind of fail attempt at a dive is just a suicide and may as well be inting. if you cant 1 shot the carry they just will not die, and very few champs can do that late game.

the main reason ADCs get bursted at all early and mid game is because they are forced to share a duo lane, meaning they are usually 4 levels behind everyone else. but DESPITE that huge difference in levels they are still more than useful to the team because of range, therefore a lvl 18 hyper carry is actually stupid to deal with if they are any good at simple kiting and positioning. a GOOD ADC, not the simple minded drones that insta lock cait because "traps op" and start melee forming the enemy lux with the butt of her gun.

AirKingNeoJun 28, 201719 votes

Carries can't get 100% crit, 2.0 AS, and two lifesteal items unless they're Jinx and don't build Last Whisper or Boots.

Violet FieldsJun 28, 20177 votes

{quoted}

Carries can't get 100% crit, 2.0 AS, and two lifesteal items unless they're Jinx and don't build Last Whisper or Boots.

item 3006 item 3087 item 3046 item 3085 item 3153 item 3072 + 10% Crit Runes

xToxicOsirisxJun 28, 20174 votes

So, no IE to multiply the 100% crit? No armor pen. No defense save PD. And it gets hard countered by Randuins and GW.

Good luck with that. Doesn't even take into account that that is a late game build.

AirKingNeoJun 28, 201710 votes

Crit runes are shit. No Infinity Edge makes it even more shitty.

You're correct, but not what I meant.

Hinagiku33Jun 29, 20173 votes

Tristana : item 3006 item 3046 item 3087 item 3031 item 3072 item 3153

Pretty sure this will get you damn close when you use Q.

AimléssJun 28, 20173 votes

That build would be trash late game. No IE or LW and a lack of AD would mean you do barely any damage to tanks even with the % hp from BOTRK, and 10% crit runes would make your laning phase trash as well, so GL even getting to late game lmao.

Violet FieldsJun 29, 20172 votes

{quoted}

That build would be trash late game. No IE or LW and a lack of AD would mean you do barely any damage to tanks even with the % hp from BOTRK, and 10% crit runes would make your laning phase trash as well, so GL even getting to late game lmao.

He didn't say anything about Infinity Edge, Last Whisper, or AD, lol. He said "there's no way..." and so on. And I didn't say the build was good, I was just proving him wrong like everyone else does on these forums.

AimléssJun 29, 20171 votes

Lmao finally someone gets it. I swear every time I make a post on these boards my first 10 comments are always people just trying to prove me wrong or tell me some youtube advice instead of actually staying on track with the post. And the Moderators wonder why you snap and gotta curse a bitch out sometimes XD

Violet FieldsJun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Lmao finally someone gets it. I swear every time I make a post on these boards my first 10 comments are always people just trying to prove me wrong or tell me some youtube advice instead of actually staying on track with the post. And the Moderators wonder why you snap and gotta curse a bitch out sometimes XD

It's not just here, it's everywhere man.

The WhamboozlerJun 29, 20171 votes

Holy shit, tell me about it. You could be talking about a new ability for say... I dunno... Rengar. And they'll just bring up some random shit outta left field and then act like it matters at ALL to what you were talking about.

Some schmuck - "Yeah, Rengar's old ult let him get away from ganks easily. But I can play Cho'gath, stand in a bush and be invisible... then hit you for like 1000 true damage if you facecheck me! That shit's broken! Therefore, Rengar's ult is fine!"

You - "What do those two things have to do with each other at all?"

Some schmuck - "1000 true damage bro. And it's point and click. Are you stupid?"

You - "No. And those still have nothing to do with each other. I'm talking about how Rengar's ult is supposed to be for ambushing people and it's silly that it's a foolproof way to flee. That's probably not what it's intended f-"

Some schmuck - "Man, I can't even talk to you dude you're a freaking moron! EVERYONE can see that Cho'Gath's ult is overpowered. You must be a Cho'Gath main bro. Trying to protect your freelo!"

You - "Are you serious? We weren't even talking about-"

Some schmuck - "Yeah, thought so. Ok, I'm done. You're not worth my time bro. Stay mad kid. Cya."

You - "What the hell even just happened?"

lolipopevelynnJun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Carries can't get 100% crit, 2.0 AS, and two lifesteal items unless they're Jinx and don't build Last Whisper or Boots.

im talking about in steroids. not all ADCs have AS steroids, but all mainstream ADCs do have a steroid in general be it a atk speed steroid or dmg steroid to boost the effectiveness of their LS. just as an example, think KogMaw Jinx Ashe Tristana just to name a few with decent atk speed steroids. Draven litterally has 2 steroids, his Q and his W.

also, to everyone saying they have to give up item 3036 lets be serious here, is not needed unless the enemy team have hyper tanks that are stacking armor. most of the time that item is never built if the enemy has 1, maybe even 2 tanks because its stats are just useless anyway. you are going to be shredding tanks regardless with item 3153 + crit items as a Twitch or Vayne

ObscureParticleJun 28, 201719 votes

summoner 14 has a very long cooldown. item 3165 only applies below 35% health, good luck trying to get them there. item 3123 cannot be used by many champions effectively.

and even if they have any of those, grievous wounds only reduces healing by 40% which is not as significant as it sound when an ADC is applying massive damage and critically striking. Outhealing another champion's damage just by basic attacking is not healthy. Only champions with actual healing abilities should be able to do that.

karolmoJun 28, 20172 votes

{quoted}

has a very long cooldown. only applies below 35% health, good luck trying to get them there. cannot be used by many champions effectively.

and even if they have any of those, grievous wounds only reduces healing by 40% which is not as significant as it sound when an ADC is applying massive damage and critically striking. Outhealing another champion's damage just by basic attacking is not healthy. Only champions with actual healing abilities should be able to do that.

Annie Fizz Katarina Syndra are asking how do you struggle to burst them down to 35% Warwick says suppresed adcs don't heal Lulu is surprised about the complains, she considers that squirrels are easy to kill

FluffySoxOfDoomJun 28, 201717 votes

{quoted}

are asking how do you struggle to burst them down to 35% says suppresed adcs don't heal is surprised about the complains, she considers that squirrels are easy to kill

Why're you building morellos on kat? lolol

5000000000000000Jun 28, 201719 votes

Besides, her ult applies GW instantly anyway

PROJECT KatarìnaJun 29, 20173 votes

Double grevious wounds :^)

S0NAJun 29, 20171 votes

Yeah if you just stack grievous wounds soon they will heal NEGATIVE!

That's how math works, amirite?

The WhamboozlerJun 29, 20171 votes

Um... sometimes, yeah.

darkmatchwaldoJun 29, 20171 votes

item 3146 item 3070

woodvsmurphJun 28, 20177 votes

Except lulu is protecting the adc I'm trying to kill - not diving the enemy backline to polymorph their adc.

Sire HippingtonJun 29, 20171 votes

Well, yes, those things are not that great at shutting down adc-lifesteal, but they fucking destroy champs that are intendet to have high sustain. It's hilarious how the counter to sustain hits those that deserve the sustain the most, while doing nothing against the abusecases.

xToxicOsirisxJun 28, 201712 votes

100% crit requires 4 crit items. Which leaves room for 1 item other than boots.

That means that ad will lose either armor pen, lifesteal, or a defensive item. But you certainly won't be stacking lifesteal.

Stop exaggerating.

DeusVultJun 29, 20174 votes

the reason that assassins cant do their job is because of item 3190 item 3109 item 3812 item 3026 item 3046 show up in some combination of the ADC.

Lifesteal just means that the ADC gets to stay in the fight and continue drain-tanking since the enemy damage is on CD, and they survived the burst because of shields, heals and damage reduction on everything they touch...

RogueWillJun 29, 20174 votes

Give it the tenacity treatment. Make it scale multiplicative and give it a cap!

TheHappyReaperzJun 28, 20173 votes

Buy an Executioner's then. What do you think Grievous Wounds is for?

FuhrerRicoJun 28, 20175 votes

Just how good are the stats on mortal reminder vs ADCs again? Trash. Waste of item slot vs any ADC.

iPooUnicornsJun 28, 20173 votes

I mean there's more than likely someone on the enemy team that has armor, so it won't be a complete waste.

Also, an ADC with: item 3031 + any item 3086 upgrade + any item 1053 upgrade + item 3033 will destroy an enemy ADC with: + any upgrade + any upgrade + item 3036

9 times out of 10 item 3033 will be a better upgrade than item 3036

Wildlife1Jun 28, 20172 votes

as a spell caster main i disagree with that option

SejeoJun 29, 20171 votes

As a spell caster main if you can burst down the adc with 1 rotation of your spells you are doing something wrong.

GayFluffyUnicornJun 29, 20173 votes

You have never played against a team with an actual support, did you?

Wildlife1Jun 29, 20172 votes

4 things to take note on:

Not all spellcasters are burst focused, DoT and Poke mages exist
Healing and shielding supports have more shields and heals plus windspeakers than mages have burst due to few ap effective options
Double lifesteal wins over burst specially if they have either or
Mages cant build cause it doesnt give ap (obviously), getting anyone that has lifesteal under 35% is actually a challenge at this point in the meta

Karn BishopJun 28, 20173 votes

Lifesteal needs to not be amplified by crits, it should calculate based off of just base damage done or just straight up not grant any life-steal should you crit, they should be things you invest in like you want more damage so you go crit path or you want more healing so you go the lifesteal path.

A middle ground to this would be that when you crit lifesteal gain is reduced by 70%, but acts normal on non crits.

KoKobotoJun 28, 20173 votes

Yeah honestly let's just remove all life steal items. If you want sustain get a healing support like: Soraka Sona Nami or something

MordepoolJun 28, 20173 votes

New Thornmail on the PBE might be an answer to mess with those adc

ChaosThiefJun 29, 20173 votes

It's a shame that the % damage taken part was removed, but this is a good direction to let it be built again.

CritkeeperJun 29, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It's a shame that the % damage taken part was removed, but this is a good direction to let it be built again.

the % damage part is more effective at diminishing effective lifedrain than the grievous wounds. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gE7AtJLM-the-actual-math-behind-new-thornmail

AimléssJun 28, 20173 votes

Unless you sell boots you're not getting 100% crit with 2 lifesteal items. 80% is possible though, but that would mean sacrificing LDR, which will make most ADC's not do any damage to tanks. Though, I don't know about Draven, his damage is fucking gross, but most other ADC's can only afford to get one LS item.

Blackstone01Jun 29, 20173 votes

So make lifesteal (and omniheal and physical vamp) a unique named passive?

rtbf221651412Jun 29, 20173 votes

And people thought spell vamp was bad. Lul.

TusutakiJun 29, 20172 votes

Lifesteal is good because the defensive items got gutted. Remember old Thornmail? I miss it.

But I will attest that DD is a problem. 30% damage delay is way too much.

AbsoluteSadmanJun 29, 20171 votes

New thornmail on the pbe applies grevious wounds :^)

Sire HippingtonJun 29, 20172 votes

Well, for some reason thinks it's a good idea to add anti burst mechanics to high sustain items, so they counter their own counter, all while giving the highest AD in the game so you hardly loose damage from takeing it. Back in the days, Assasins did counter lifesteal, because they would burst the adc before he can sustain. Now those items atöeast delay(often even deny) the burst so they can use the lifesteal even vs burst.(themn surviveing the burst is not only because of the lifesteal-items anti burst mechanics, they just get soooo much protection shoved up their ass from everythere, it's rediculous)

Overall, Lifesteal is a kinda bullshit mechanic, as it increases survivabillity based on DPS, so if you deal more damage, you also get harder to kill. This causes it to be a very snowbally stat that also only feels good on champs that can reliably get really high dps.

I hope they try replaceing it with effects similar to current warlord, maybe even with less scaleing, so tanky champs with less damage can make use of it aswell while dps champs don't hyperscale with it.

But as it looks, Riot just takes a comblicated root and instead of getting rid of GW and balanceing lifesteal in a scenario where it can't be easily reduced by 40%, they add GW to thornmail. THen probably everyone will get thornmail to deal with the absurd lifesteal, which causes riot to nerf thornmail 'cause it crowds out other choices' and lifesteal once again is an issue, just that we have another hardcounter items vs the likes of Aatrox that are intendet to drainrank.

The WhamboozlerJun 29, 20172 votes

Incorrect. Lifesteal is too good in general. Carries just make it seem even more so because they are ALSO kinda too good in general. Combine the two and... well...

Honestly, just reducing the lifesteal heal for ranged champs would be all it takes to fix it.