Dunno about you guys but I'm so so tired of every new champ scaling like a monster, while simultaneously being a huge lane bully 
. I want another
or 
-like champion who has early strength but clearly falls off. I don't even think Riot intended for all these champs to scale so hard, they just didn't want them to have any weaknesses in design(which is bad design).
Slamurai Jack20 votesReksai? Kalista? Vel'koz? Multiple recent champs have significant fall offs late game, especially Rek'sai. And if champion.gg is to be believed, Ekko is very strong up until 25 minutes and then his win rate drops off a cliff beyond 25 minutes. That to me tells me that Ekko is an early/mid game cheese champion that wins games by getting fed off enemies unfamiliar with him, but he has a hard time winning games if his cheese doesn't work.
MTempty14 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6tRgLXu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-11T06:42:42.892+0000)
Reksai? Kalista? Vel'koz? Multiple recent champs have significant fall offs late game, especially Rek'sai. And if champion.gg is to be believed, Ekko is very strong up until 25 minutes and then his win rate drops off a cliff beyond 25 minutes. That to me tells me that Ekko is an early/mid game cheese champion that wins games by getting fed off enemies unfamiliar with him, but he has a hard time winning games if his cheese doesn't work.
Kalista doesn't fall off. Not sure what part of an adc with scaling mobility and free vision falls off.
Slamurai Jack9 votesKalista doesn't fall off. Not sure what part of an adc with scaling mobility and free vision falls off.
Because she has no true auto steroid and she doesn't build as much crit as other adcs, so her single target damage is much lower. Building 
instead of 
has serious tradeoffs, namely that she's a far worse duelist and is far weaker at burning through tanks compared to a normal adc. Kalista does have rend, yes, but she wants to use it as an execute, which isn't nearly as effective against tanks, and you can't heal off of rend damage unless you have red elixir.
It Hertz When IP5 votesfar weaker at burning through tanks compared to a normal adc.
High attack speed build, and I have yet to see a Kalista that doesn't build 
. She does fine KILLING tanks, it's surviving afterwards that she doesn't do so hot at. IMO that's a tradeoff for NEVER GETTING FREAKING CAUGHT, dodgy ass ghost bitch.
Dengeden1 votesShe takes forever to kill them. BoRK is decent on her but BT is almost essential and double LS is horrible late.
SmurfOfYixuan9 votes"Free" vision? It's not free it takes up an ability slot bro.
Why doesn't Draven have free vision? Why does he have this shitty 80% attack speed steroid instead?
Nilok4 votesIt is free since it is attached to a very powerful passive effect that can hit a target for 20% of their max HP in magic damage every six seconds.
Ashe on the other hand does not have free vision, Hawkshot takes up a full ability slot by itself.
Rinky Dinky1 votesVayne gets free true damage confirmed because its attatched to her auto's duh
Nilok1 votesThat makes no sense, both are powerful passives, Kalista just has more utility on top of it since it requires team work, something you should have regardless in this game.
MTempty1 votes"Free" vision? It's not free it takes up an ability slot bro.
Why doesn't Draven have free vision? Why does he have this shitty 80% attack speed steroid instead?
I say that because at the low cost of 25 mana added onto her passive component, Its essentially free. I get what you mean by its one of her abilities, but its mostly just gated by cooldowns and has a second portion that doesnt have a mana cost. I consider that a "free" ability because it costs her almost nothing to use it and she loses nothing strategically(mana/combat effectiveness) And yes, most energy champions by that definition would fall under free with the exception of Shen and a couple others but thats part of the reason I think those champions have balance problems when they are strong in the meta.
Aych Pii1 votesShe loses combat effectiveness because she could potentially have a combat ability in that slot. It also gives a small amount of gold to the enemy team, so there's that if you really want to argue about what's free and what isn't.
Knight SoIaire 3 votesvel koz ?
that guy deletes people how can that alll off
while rek sai ... i might agree
Slamurai Jack5 votesAs someone who plays Vel'koz quite a bit, yes, his damage does fall off late game in comparison to his amazing mid game. His low AP ratios really start to hurt him the closer you are to 6 items, and the true damage passive, while still good, isn't as big of an impact as it was in mid game.
Knight SoIaire 2 votesi played vel koz too .... never felt it to fall off
Anidan7 votesAs someone who has played AGAINST Vel'koz a good few times: His damage does indeed fall off. Later in the game he still hurts, but it's nowhere near as bad as his wreck-your-face mid-game. His ratios aren't the best ever, and his utility is mostly his slow that he has to land in the form of a skillshot, a telegraphed slight knock-up, and then he just has damage. It isn't quite as bad dealing with him later. He reminds me of a DotA mage, in a good way. He has clear points of power, clear weaknesses, and you can exploit the hell out of him, or take the game past when he shines and when someone on your team does if your team comp doesn't allow for exploiting his weaknesses outright.
Vel'koz is honestly my favorite champion that I don't even own. Even if I owned him he'd be pretty high up there - he's solid design.
therealdragon1 votesAs someone who has played AGAINST Vel'koz a good few times: His damage does indeed fall off. Later in the game he still hurts, but it's nowhere near as bad as his wreck-your-face mid-game. His ratios aren't the best ever, and his utility is mostly his slow that he has to land in the form of a skillshot, a telegraphed slight knock-up, and then he just has damage. It isn't quite as bad dealing with him later. He reminds me of a DotA mage, in a good way. He has clear points of power, clear weaknesses, and you can exploit the hell out of him, or take the game past when he shines and when someone on your team does if your team comp doesn't allow for exploiting his weaknesses outright.
Vel'koz is honestly my favorite champion that I don't even own. Even if I owned him he'd be pretty high up there - he's solid design.
I do own him and, technically, I still main him, but I'm looking to main someone else. With all the new champs getting released, vel is starting to get countered by every mid champ there is. Half of them aren't counters if you don't know how to play against vel, but if you do all these champs and more are counters: 
(I LEARNED HOW TO COUNTER FIZZ I"M SO HAPPY :D) 
Anyone that has mobility is the counter to vel'koz. I would add katarina to that list, but I've tested it a few times and it seems his range on his skills is higher than kats range on her e. So poke from afar then ult her and shes dead.
He is my fav champ but he gets countered by half the champs in league now :/ so I'm looking to main someone else....if you do get him, gl. He's super fun. He's a beast, as we've said, early to mid-game. Lategame he does fall off a bit, but if you've got an ap build, you'll still do good damage lol.
Aych Pii1 votesHe's not countered by half the champs, it's just that half the players main assassins so he's countered in lane in 70% of games.
therealdragon1 votes[{quoted}](name=Aych Pii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6tRgLXu,comment-id=0003000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-06-12T13:33:17.802+0000)
He's not countered by half the champs, it's just that half the players main assassins so he's countered in lane in 70% of games.
meh same diff lol
Devack The Holy1 votesSame.
junglerboy162 votesThe reason a lot of people don't feel Vel'koz falls off is that his base damage is so high that even one doing half decent will always be relevant. He doesn't need to have an ult with a 90% AP ratio, because the base damage is 900 at rank 3. his abilities don't need to have huge bursts of damage each because they are relatively spammable and all apply his passive which gives true damage (which never falls off).
Does it fall off relative to mid game? kind of. Does it fall off relative to other mages? Not really no.
Devack The Holy1 votesNot to mention the tendency of most Vel players to stack magic pen items to help with his low ratios.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesalso since he has high base damage you can just grab that 40% cdr and you dont lose much damage on that i would say that you even gain more than from simple ap then you get rylais and liandrys to back it up and boom ... tanky burst mage who removes tanks too and kitess from a range nobody can dream off
junglerboy161 votesPretty much. I'm still befuddled as to why he hasn't been considered OP since release, because I've only seen people do really well with him.
Borbland7 votesRek'sai weak late ? She has a good engage and a good AoE CC. Vel'Koz ? That's the biggest joke of all, he's the master of the teamfight. As long you have a team that protects you a bit, you are going to melt 'em all. Kalista ? She's an adc. Since when do adc fall off late game ?
Slamurai Jack13 votesSaying Reksai doesn't fall off late because of her knockup is like saying Lee Sin doesnt fall off because of his kick and Pantheon doesn't fall off because of his ult and stun. And yet, all 3 fall off significantly late game because while their utility stays the same, their damage falls off hard unless they builds tons of it.
Vel'koz's win rate is highest at 25 minutes and slopes steadily downward as the length of the game increases. Yes, his damage late game is still high, but it is a fall off from its absurd mid game power.
Kalista falls off relative to other adcs. Adc's are the strongest damage dealers late game because of their massive multiplicative scaling with AD, AS, and Crit, especially crit. Kalista, however, typically builds Runaan's instead of PD, which gives her 20% more AS but 35% less Crit. This is an enormous difference in DPS, and her lack of crit has the same effect on her DPS as it does to Ezreal; it falls off hard late game when the tanks are super tanky.
junglerboy161 votesMeh, most people I see don't build Runaan's anymore unless they have to for the wave clear. Also, those that I do see building it almost always sell it later on for a PD instead.
Chalets only falls off as hard as your build really, and she actually has very good damage for the amount of utility she offers.
TurquoiseYoshi2 votesKalista gets better late game imo. Once she gets more AS, the hops are ridiculous.
Slamurai Jack4 votesIf only safety were enough to make you strong late game, then Ezreal could finally be a late game god.
junglerboy161 votesIsn't that what used to make Tristana so good before they gutted her? She had immense range and 2 forms of hard disengage. She had one steroid, otherwise it was all magic damage that scaled off AP. She was a hyper carry not because she mowed down tanks or because she was exceptionally high in DPS (which statistically she wasn't), she was a hyper carry because she was extremely safe and mobile with average ADC damage.
Narasimha4 votesJumping around doesn't save you from right-clicks.
OldDirtay1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6tRgLXu,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-06-11T06:42:42.892+0000)
Reksai? Kalista? Vel'koz? Multiple recent champs have significant fall offs late game, especially Rek'sai. And if champion.gg is to be believed, Ekko is very strong up until 25 minutes and then his win rate drops off a cliff beyond 25 minutes. That to me tells me that Ekko is an early/mid game cheese champion that wins games by getting fed off enemies unfamiliar with him, but he has a hard time winning games if his cheese doesn't work.
kalista and velkoz fall off late?
you must face people who have either no idea how to farm or how to itemize
both those champions can deal insane dmg late game
Slamurai Jack2 voteskalista and velkoz fall off late?
you must face people who have either no idea how to farm or how to itemize
both those champions can deal insane dmg late game
Do I really need to explain what "falls off" means? It has absolutely nothing to do with their power level late game, only to their power level late game when compared to early and mid game dominance. Irelia is a good example. Is she strong late? Yes she is. Does she fall off late? Yes she does. Compared to her amazing mid game, she does fall off, even if she is still above average late. Vel'koz and Kalista are the same way; their peaks of power compared to other points of the game and relative to other champions is in mid game, and they slowly trail off the later the game goes. That doesn't mean they aren't still strong late game, but their power levels are closer to their competitors when compared to their mid game spikes. Vel'koz is absurdly strong mid game and still strong late game, but Lux outclasses him once everyone starts hitting 6 items. Kalista will always be strong late game since she is an adc, but her late game power does not compare to the late game power of a Kog'ma, Jinx, or Vayne. And Irelia, whild still strong late game, begins to be outshone by Jax who is so absurd late game that Jax with 5 items is stronger than most champions with 6 items.
OldDirtay1 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6tRgLXu,comment-id=000300060000,timestamp=2015-06-11T23:41:18.520+0000)
Do I really need to explain what "falls off" means? It has absolutely nothing to do with their power level late game, only to their power level late game when compared to early and mid game dominance. Irelia is a good example. Is she strong late? Yes she is. Does she fall off late? Yes she does. Compared to her amazing mid game, she does fall off, even if she is still above average late. Vel'koz and Kalista are the same way; their peaks of power compared to other points of the game and relative to other champions is in mid game, and they slowly trail off the later the game goes. That doesn't mean they aren't still strong late game, but their power levels are closer to their competitors when compared to their mid game spikes. Vel'koz is absurdly strong mid game and still strong late game, but Lux outclasses him once everyone starts hitting 6 items. Kalista will always be strong late game since she is an adc, but her late game power does not compare to the late game power of a Kog'ma, Jinx, or Vayne. And Irelia, whild still strong late game, begins to be outshone by Jax who is so absurd late game that Jax with 5 items is stronger than most champions with 6 items.
weak, average, strong
thats how its considered, you cant have a weak strong lategame, its either strong or weak
the term fall off def. means they have a weak lategame, fall off doesnt mean their lategame is average or alil-alot strong
btw irelia doesnt fall off late she does her job very well, sure she "falls off" if your trying to be a full tank or full dps on her but again that comes down to building like a derp
this statement says it all and ill quote it...
Irelia is a good example. Is she strong late? Yes she is. Does she fall off late? Yes she does
she cant "fall off late" and still be "strong late"
not gonna lie i stopped reading after that line because that line alone almost gave me cancer
pleepage8 votes
one of the most fearsome late game tanky DPS out there
agbudar1 votesthis is a fun build
here take this 
Sooko7 votesWeaknesses are things of the past.
#EmbrassingTheOverloadedKits
HeadHonchkrow2 votesEMBRACING*
Arveanor5 votesGnar and Sion have no weakness in design? interesting.
Maximum Zilean2 votesI'd be down for an old school lane bully champ like 
.
Just as long as they are not 100% useless late game and can do SOMETHING late game.
Omiwom2 votesHeh, I wouldn't mind one that scales decently all around but not too well late. It's just that the latest champs are hyper carries that are also relevant at all points in the game.
pleepage2 votes[{quoted}](name=Maximum Zilean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6tRgLXu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-06-11T04:28:52.948+0000)
I'd be down for an old school lane bully champ like
Just as long as they are not 100% useless late game and can do SOMETHING late game.
Every champion can do sothing late game if u build correctly
Slamurai Jack4 votesOf course every champion can do something late game if you build correctly, but some champions clearly scale far better than others. For example, 
with 5 items is stronger than most champions are with 6, basically meaning he get's 1 free item of his choice in the late game. Enemy team really tanky? 
. Pesky adc? 
In it for the lulz?
pleepage3 votes[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6tRgLXu,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2015-06-11T07:52:34.995+0000)
Of course every champion can do something late game if you build correctly, but some champions clearly scale far better than others. For example,
This is true.
But what im saying is there are few champions that TRUELY fall off late like 
And champions that naturally have a monster late game 
The rest scale of items, and playstyle. Im talking about the pantheons, garen', dariuss, renektons etc. All of these guys are "early game champs" that have beastly late game power if they are built Dmg. (with 1 or 2 defensive items) Pantheons E for example is the best scaling AD spell in the game
JayenKei2 votesDoesn't Ekko begin to fall off late game as with most assassins in this game? o_o
IcyPepper2 votes as a model
We'll give him seven different spells, energy to gate him late-game (but no energy cost on ultimate, as standard), activated passives along with his normal one, and a paragraph for each spell and its other spell.
kappa
Aych Pii1 votesAnd yet he still has one hell of a shitty late game.
IcyPepper1 votesHence the kappa.
If someone builds him full tank, he certainly has utility but not a lot of great hard cc. He's got decent damage, being a bruiser, but building him full damage is like building full damage on Vi. On paper, it might seem like a great idea, but it's a waste of their potential.
TotalJerk1 votesSion's winrate actually sharply declines the longer a game runs