Detailed Essay on Malzahar Changes

TheGrot··24 votes·3,258 views

This post is about Malzahar.Malzahar I mained Malzahar (not one trick, but he was by far my most played) shortly after the mage update until his voidlings got gutted. I had a 70% winrate over about 120 games in mid/mostly high diamond). After his voidlings got gutted, he stopped being played mid in competitive and high elo. I made several lengthy posts explaining how this was going to ruin him as a mid laner and completely deprive him of any variation in gameplay. I made a recent post explaining why I think the current changes on PBE will successfully make him viable mid lane again, but will fail to revive his diversity in gameplay. I had a friend read this post, and he asked me a few good questions. I’m writing this post differently, hoping that addressing some of these questions will make my point more understandable.

(For reference, when I talk about diversity/variation in gameplay, I mean different ways you can play a champion in a skirmish or a teamfight or even just in lane 1v1. Pantheon, Master Yi, and Diana are just a few examples of champions that I believe have little to not variation in gameplay.)

Main Claim: The current changes on PBE will successfully make Malzahar viable mid again, but the changes still fail to revive his diversity/variation in gameplay. With the current changes, he is still a numbers champion: He is a champion that is either viable/strong or irrelevant based on how much damage his abilities do. Since there is no variation in how the champion is played (you press buttons and click them on the enemy and hope it kills them) how good he is is entirely determined by how much damage his spells do. My recommended changes are as follows: Revert all voidlings to being in the same state as before the patch that gutted him as a mid laner, and make his ultimate a stun so that it can be countered by taking cleanse.

The only real toxic thing about Malzahar was the serious lack of counterplay available to mid laners when he flash ulted you. There wasn’t any kind of skill involved in flashing on someone and killing them, because you have an ultimate that completely immobilizes them with no counterplay. Mid laners aren’t supposed to build QSS, and you still wouldn’t have QSS early enough to stop him from getting at least one flash ult on you. By making his ultimate a stun, you give mid laners the option of taking cleanse, thus removing the only real toxic part about him. Now my friend asked me: “So him pressing W and completely zoning you out of lane wasn’t toxic?” Short answer: No.

I knew all of the ins and outs of Malzahar, and I even knew at least one trick that pros didn’t. When I played against Malzahar, I normally won simply because I knew how to play against it. I will explain how this was done to show why he wasn’t that toxic. To start, let’s say you just cast W and cast malefic visions on someone so the voidling chases that person down until it either dies or the expiration goes down. The thing is, a single voidling will not do very significant damage at all, and once that spell is used up, Malzahar can’t hope to do much of anything to you for the next 20-30 seconds. Not only was W (voidlings) an incredibly high cooldown, but malzahar doesn’t have the mana to constantly sustain pressing W+E on someone if he’s not getting decent damage off it. You can think of it like a Cassiopeia constantly using twin fang without poisoning someone. Sure, it might deal some damage, but there’s no way she can sustain before any significant damage is done.

So, as a Malzahar player, here’s what you do. You want to wait for a minion to get low enough health that a voidling can instantly last hit and multiply off of it when it spawns. Here’s what makes it tricky. You need to time it perfectly and place it perfectly. If the voidling is spawned too early, then the minion will die and it won’t be able to multiply. If the voidling is spawned too late, then it won’t auto last hit the minion, and the enemy will have time to back off out of the range of Malefic visions before the voidlings have a chance to multiply. Now for placement. Because you have to save your malefic visions to re-direct your voidlings to your enemy, you need to nail the placement so that it attacks the minion you want it to attack. The tricky part is that you can’t place a voidling on top of a unit. If there’s even a little bit of overlap, then the voidling is liable to jump over a unit’s model and end up on a completely different side than intended. Often, when this happened, it causes for the voidling to attack a different minion than intended. Thus, the voidling can no longer multiply for your trade combo. If the placement or timing is messed up even slightly, then you’re practically wasting a 20-30 second cooldown, which happens to be a key part in your damage output. Next, we’ll talk about what you’re able to do when you face a Malzahar under the assumption they have perfectly mastered their voidling timing and placement.

Playing against Malzahar Malzahar becomes similar to playing against Irelia Irelia . When you’re used to playing against Irelia, you know to watch the minions in the creep wave that she can reset her dash off of and position yourself accordingly. It’s actually easier to do this against Malzahar because the voidling cast range isn’t very long, so he needs to be very close to a minion if he intends on multiplying a voidling off of it. Additionally, he needs to keep himself relatively close to the enemy champion so that he can cast malefic visions right as soon as the voidling multiplies. Malzahar will also need to be carful in this sense, so that he doesn’t extend too far in the lane that he becomes an easy pick for the enemy jungler. When you consider both how close Malzahar needs to be to you and how close he needs to be to a minion, it becomes fairly easy to spot when he’s going to try to use his trade combo on you. Again, without using voidlings in this way, Malzahar’s damage becomes sub-par at best. There are some champions that were good counters to Malzahar because they didn’t even need to consider how he was positioning himself in the lane. Some champions had kits that enabled them to instantly clear Malzahar’s voidlings, even as a swarm.

Because it is sufficiently easy (compared to many other champions) to play against Malzahar (and I speak from a vast range of experience), it is sufficiently hard to play him to his fullest potential, he has multiple counter matchups like any other mid laner, and he doesn’t deal a sizable amount of damage without being played to a high potential, I did not and do not consider him to be toxic to play against. I did not find it exceptionally difficult to win games against a mid lane Malzahar in high diamond. (Reminder: I am a mid lane main and have been since season 3). The only exception to this statement is his ability to flash and ultimate someone, which I described earlier.

Another question my friend asked me was, “How do you know people won’t just keep playing him support?” There are a lot of champions that can be played in different positions in League of Legends, and different things to consider when you decide which position you want the champion to be played in. Do I want Hecarim to be top or jungle? Do I want ekko/fizz/jayce to be top or mid? Etc. For Malzahar, after the nerfs, his damage output become very weak and he was stripped of practically every single voidling interaction that was vital to his damage output and gameplay as a mid laner. He was picked support because the toxic utility from his ultimate remained intact, and there was no point in feeding farm to a champion that wouldn’t be able to carry with it. Not only that, but the change to giving voidlings 3 hp made him more ideal for bot lane. With the prior state of his voidlings, it’d be easy for a support and marksman to both contribute an auto and instanty kill the voidling. With 3 hp, it wasn’t quite that simple. Additionally, the removal of the HP threshold last hitting that voidlings had, it meant Malzahar could be played support without accidentally siphoning a significant amount of creeps from his marksman. I firmly believe that gutting Malzahar’s voidlings was a mistake that can only be remedied through reverting the changes. It wasn’t just a damage nerf, but it decimated the champion’s gameplay. There was no skill ceiling anymore. There wasn’t anything to be good at other than pressing your buttons on an enemy champion.

I have nothing against Riot. I know they always make changes with their best intentions, even though it can be hard to see that at times. I know they are willing to own up to mistakes and revert a big change when it doesn’t take a positive turn. (We’ve seen this with Fizz and Kog’Maw just as two examples). Sometimes, I am also impressed with their ability to almost read my mind in what I think a champion needs. Bottom line is that I know Riot workers are reasonable, they never try to make the game worse, and that they listen to the community. It is for this reason that instead of posting how little I appreciate a change, I take time out of my day to write a detailed post about something to help Riot workers understand my point of view. I apologize if some of the players reading this do not appreciate how lengthy it is, but try to understand that I believe it’s always best to show as much of your logic and reasoning as possible if one’s goal is to help another understand one’s point.

Point Recap: Make Malzahar ultimate something that can be cleansed, and revert the voidling changes that ruined him as a mid laner in the first place. Thanks for reading! And of course if there's any remaining confusion I will try to make sure I clear any of it up if you tell me what you're confused about!

38 Comments

Ez dePaz7 votes

Personaly I prefered the prerework BIG Voidlings to the weak Swarming ones. How effective the Small ones were wasn't a question about how well malz played around them but how suited the opponents kit was at dealing with them. The variance in how that ability either completly destroyed an oppenent or fizzeld with no effect, It was far to inconsistent for a low player input ability.

On the contrast the BIG Voidlings where as most effective when the Malz player prepeared for a good 14 seconds before combat even happens. Their greater defenses also made them perform consistantly. If they also would have gotten an AP ratio before getting replaced I'm assured more people would realize how well designed Pets they were.

Sincerly a AD Malz main.

Beacon Academy1 votes

Tbh tho, Malzahar got away with having high base and ratios because the Voidlings were AD scaling only.

I miss them... They were subtle yet effective and divided decent Malzahar's from good ones.

Also... As far as having the Voidlings as a bonus passive vs having them as an on-demand spell... Last time I checked...

Malzahar served the Void... Not the other way around.

Corvo Attano6 votes

Wow Jesus Christ, you weren't kidding when you said this post would be really detailed I personally think that the changes you listed are very fitting and would definitely bring Malzahar back to where he was as a mid laner.

NineTailedMystic2 votes

See, there are two main grievances I have with Malzahar. His passive, and his E refresh.

Ez dePaz9 votes

As a long time malz main I think the E refresh is the only good thing that came with the rework, increasing his sustain damave while tunning down his burst, which was what the rework was supposed to acomplish but failed on all other fronts.

NineTailedMystic3 votes

Doesn't change how his E is point and click, big dick damage. Last thing he needed was more damage from it just from ulting, let alone using his Q

LSmaster164 votes

How are the refreshes a problem? It keeps his e point and click but rewards him with more damage for landing q or for letting his e tick a bit before ult instead of just using all his abilities at once.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Because the enemy laner doesn't need punished more just for Malz landing an easy to hit skillshot that refreshes a 220 + .7 AP DoT on top of the skillshots damage, and then his R continually refreshes it so its an ass ton of damage if he lets it tick even slightly. What does it matter if the damage is delayed if it's guaranteed?

Not to mention the E damage is getting buffed with the 7.11 changes iirc.

I wouldn't have a problem if QSS still removed his E, but it doesn't.

Arkale7 votes

The E reset was only allowed in the first place because they gutted the base damage and the scalings on his E in the base rework. They are now giving his E and Q back some scaling that they lost in exchange for making his voidlings (which were the new focus of his kit) near useless damage-wise when not ulting.

And while his Q was made easier to hit in the rework since he had to channel it the whole time now, it's still a line skillshot so it isn't "easy to hit" if your opponent can walk and knows that it's perpendicular to him.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Yea, and now that they're giving him back damage, they can remove that damn refresh.

Anything below 335 base MS doesn't have the easiest time dodging skillshots early game.

Arkale4 votes

My point was that they're giving back 10% damage because they're making voidlings weaker damage-wise and easier to kill as voidlings were the main things that did damage post-rework.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

And thats fine. Hell, give him more damage back if it means the loss of the refresh.

Arkale4 votes

The only reason people don't want that is because the refresh was the only thing that made the new malz interact with his laner.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Then E's damage should stay low and only be worth it if he gets a refresh. Less than now, more after a refresh. Not ridiculously strong by itself.

Or make QSS remove it again so you can deny it all together.

Arkale2 votes

And that would be fine, IF they made his w an ability that did reliable damage.

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

Yea, and now that they're giving him back damage, they can remove that damn refresh.

Anything below 335 base MS doesn't have the easiest time dodging skillshots early game.

They made his Q easier to dodge... if you can't dodge his Q with T1 boots then you deserve to be hit by it

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Pretty sure no champ has less than 335 MS after T1 boots short of unmounted Kled, so I don't know what you're getting at.

Also they made his Q easier to hit post rework. These changes for him are increasing the cast time by .25s iirc which will make it slightly harder but nothing significant.

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't change how his E is point and click, big dick damage. Last thing he needed was more damage from it just from ulting, let alone using his Q

the fuck? His E base damage is pathetic. The damage is dealt over 4 seconds... you have nearly 4 SECONDS to react to its full damage by lifestealing, shielding, etc.

NineTailedMystic1 votes

And what about laning? Or when you're an AP champ that doesn't have shields in kit?

Also 80/115/150/185/220 + .7 AP seems more than fine base damage wise.

But please, downvote me.

Cosmic Warper2 votes

{quoted}

And what about laning? Or when you're an AP champ that doesn't have shields in kit?

Also 80/115/150/185/220 + .7 AP seems more than fine base damage wise.

But please, downvote me.

go buy health potions and outsustain his E damage with it... the fact that you complain about his second weakest spell is hilarious.

And you're paranoid claiming that i downvoted you lmao

NineTailedMystic1 votes

Sure lemme start Boots 4 and not have the Mana sustain to keep up with his push.

His second weakest spell looks pretty strong. For reference, Ahri Q is 280 + .7 AP, Ahri W is 224 + .64 AP total (224 + .48 post nerf), and Ahri E is 200 + .5 AP (200 + .6 AP post buff). I picked Ahri's spells just because I know them off hand, no particular reason.

I wouldn't say paranoid. Considering I was on the thread like 30 min ago and my posts have an extra -1 after you posted. Could just be coincidence but this thread doesn't seem super popular. Not that I care bout "muh karma", but bandwagon effect and all when people see a negative post.

Akali Prime2 votes

i have read the essay yet but im telling you right now there better be a thesis statement.

TheGrot2 votes

There is one

Thefrostyviking2 votes

His ulti shouldn't be cleanseable due to how reliant he is on it, if it were possible then any champ using it would utterly crush him 1v1.

As if there were a summoner spell ´with a zhonya effect, everyone playing against a assassin or burst champ would pick this and the burst would be useless.

Altho i do agree that it´s currently a silly frustrating ability.

Beacon Academy1 votes

{quoted}

His ulti shouldn't be cleanseable due to how reliant he is on it, if it were possible then any champ using it would utterly crush him 1v1.

Which is probably why his ultimate spell was changed from its initial stun to the suppression it is today...

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Yah, i was responding to someone who said it should be possible.

TheGrot2 votes

I'm pretty certain I made a point of saying that any good Malzahar player did not need to rely on his ultimate to get kills and win games. It's too easy to abuse and has little to not counter-play. You can still get kills with your ultimate if it's a stun. It just means that the enemy has an option available to play against it, instead of automatically dying every time Malzahar has flash up.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

It is needed though, because any champ with movement abilities will save them for the time when you try to Q.

Missing Q with current Malz is quite punishing, and being reliant on it makes you want to avoid fights and just sit back and farm for days instead.

This rings a bell....something about a rework to make him interact more?

Thus his ulti needs to be impossible to stop for a single person, because if it isn't then malz who needs time to use all his damage will get utterly screwed by all forms of burst.

Like, the only other midlaner i can think of that you´d want cleanse against is Cassio, but even if you cleanse her ultimate you can't really avoid her barrage of poison fangs, probably not her W or Q either, even with movement abilities if the cassio is good.

In a similar situation a malz would be utterly screwed if someone cleansed his ultimate, not only would he miss a third of his damage, his Q and W would also stand a far greater chance at failing to hit.

Like the opponent instantly cleanses the ulti and dodges the Q before oneshotting the minions and then killing Malz.

That would probably be common and fairly easy, especially for champs like Syndra, Ori and Cassio.

Then we have the,they weren't exactly issue free either, i am unsure how far you want to revert them but the fact is that Malz could win fights with voidlings+E +R and nothing else, provided he either poked a bit first or the enemy was immobile.

Or just early when a slower jungler comes to gank, avoid being CC'ed and make the voidlings DPS in the meanwhile, i´ve gotten tons of kills on junglers that way.

Really, i see why people are sour at Malz´s ulti and how malz players are equally so at his "new" voidlings but fact is that both abilities have a ton of issues in terms of counterplay.

But i don't think either can be fixed in any easy manner because it would probably break malz even more.

....

For real tho, the voidlings get oneshot by pretty much anything current, feels real bad, even if they are too OP when they don't.

TheGrot1 votes

With the old Malz, I was able to consistently kill even LCS pros without having to rely on my ultimate being a suppress. Speaking from a vast range of experience, it's not necessary for Malzahar to have his ultimate be a suppress in order to solo kill people.

And Malzahar wouldn't be broken. Back when he was in the state that I'm referring to, I recall being able to win a large majority of my games against Malzahar. Most of the time I was d1/d2, and I had a 70% win rate on Malzahar over 120 games. But when other people picked him, it didn't matter that much because I knew how to play against it.

And I could write an essay on how to play the old Malzahar (I actually to some extent have to some friends who wanted to learn) but I really don't want to get into that right now. I appreciate you piecing together an actual argument, but I feel like a lot of your points are based off of false claims. I say false because I know from my vast range of experience that some of the things you're referring to just aren't how he worked.

I think for some reason you are making an argument based on current Malz, but I'm talking about Malzahar from last season. The good ole' mid lane Malzahar from before the patch where they removed nearly every single voiding interaction.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

With the old Malz, I was able to consistently kill even LCS pros without having to rely on my ultimate being a suppress. Speaking from a vast range of experience, it's not necessary for Malzahar to have his ultimate be a suppress in order to solo kill people. And Malzahar wouldn't be broken. Back when he was in the state that I'm referring to, I recall being able to win a large majority of my games against Malzahar. Most of the time I was d1/d2, and I had a 70% win rate on Malzahar over 120 games. But when other people picked him, it didn't matter that much because I knew how to play against it. And I could write an essay on how to play the old Malzahar (I actually to some extent have to some friends who wanted to learn) but I really don't want to get into that right now. I appreciate you piecing together an actual argument, but I feel like a lot of your points are based off of false claims. I say false because I know from my vast range of experience that some of the things you're referring to just aren't how he worked. I think for some reason you are making an argument based on current Malz, but I'm talking about Malzahar from last season. The good ole' mid lane Malzahar from before the patch where they removed nearly every single voiding interaction.

Well that i am, because old malz was reworked for several reasons, i was under the assumption you spoke of one or another state that followed his rework.

And old malz was super strong, i played that one too.

But like, for some matchups i could miss Q and cancel my ulti and then just watch my lane opponent die of my E and 2 voidlings.

It was kinda stupid and it was even dumber that Riot made it easier to do it following his rework.

Old malz had far too many health issue's that couldn't be fixed without making him useless.

But the reworked one was even worse which is why he is practically reverted now, pretty much everything except voidlings that is.....

Because they are simply too OP when they actually work which is why they have been nerfed into oblivion only now x)

I am fairly sure malz now is a passenger on the Ryze train, may he one day find peace.

TheGrot1 votes

Did you play it at a masters level? Because even champions like master yi are viable even all the way up to diamond 5. I know enough on that Malzahar to be confident that if they reverted all the voidling changes that ruined him and made his ultimate something that can be cleansed, then he'd be viable/good/balanced/w.e.

I knew how to win games as him, I knew how to win games playing against him. I knew the part on both sides and what made it really hard to play against him and where the problems were.

Also if you look at my initial post, I took the time to explain and back up my claims with reasoning. If I said that he wasn't OP, I explained why. It's hard for me to discuss this with you because you kind of just make the bold claims without sourcing where they're coming from or why they're valid.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

{quoted}

Did you play it at a masters level? Because even champions like master yi are viable even all the way up to diamond 5. I know enough on that Malzahar to be confident that if they reverted all the voidling changes that ruined him and made his ultimate something that can be cleansed, then he'd be viable/good/balanced/w.e. I knew how to win games as him, I knew how to win games playing against him. I knew the part on both sides and what made it really hard to play against him and where the problems were. Also if you look at my initial post, I took the time to explain and back up my claims with reasoning. If I said that he wasn't OP, I explained why. It's hard for me to discuss this with you because you kind of just make the bold claims without sourcing where they're coming from or why they're valid.

I can't really see malza beating anything that can dodge is his Q without his ultimate unless he has voidlings with power similar to those of last patch. There is just no way.

And i understand the idea how his flash ults being frustrating, but really it's justified for the same reason that annie is allowed to do it.

Syndra, ahri and cassio all does it as well, because getting a kill for free every 5 minutes at the expense of a summoner spell isn't viewed as an issue from Riot's side seen. At least that is their apparent stance on the matter.

And what i did is ignore what i consider to be silly arguments, you argue that Malzahar is similar to Irelia in case of minion interaction but Riot dont want another Irelia, they want to rework her or haven't you heard?

She is viewed as a problem champion too.

Thus any argument that uses Irelia to justify changes to Malz is not really worth a lot given Riot's statements on the matter.

The issue with Old malz that either didn't work at all because of bad matchups and then he just stalled out lane and farmed with E-Q.

Or he did work and then he was extremely oppressive as long as the player was decent, this is what Riot wrote on the matter, are you really going to argue with them on it? Nearly all malz mains on the boards agreed that he needed a rework.

Even if the rework that came in the end was a massive failure.

There isn't much that can be said at this point, Malz is exactly the same as Ryze at this point, either he works and is oppressive and frustrating for a number of reasons or he doesn't and no one except his mains care.

It's not possible to give the voidlings any strength back, for not a single one of the previous states has been good, thus a new way is needed.

His current state has already been noted as OP and people are already demanding nerfs, i really can't view it as anything other than a Ryze spiral, this is nearly exactly what happened to him too.

Beacon Academy1 votes

I just don't understand why you want Malzahar to revolve around an AI Spell.

He was nerfed into unreliable damage because Voidling Swarms were hard to fight with actual HP bars

He became a support because of his unreliable damage

And Malzahar doesn't need Voidlings to clear a wave. -_-

There was a time in the past when Malzahar players were still required to know the limitations on E damage and know how to last hit.


Doesn't matter how many times you delete and remake this thread, I'll still point out the same shit.

Cosmic Warper1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Beacon Academy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k6lmPmFR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-05-30T11:20:30.417+0000)

I just don't understand why you want Malzahar to revolve around an AI Spell.

He was nerfed into unreliable damage because Voidling Swarms were hard to fight with actual HP bars

He became a support because of his unreliable damage

And Malzahar doesn't need Voidlings to clear a wave. -_-

There was a time in the past when Malzahar players were still required to know the limitations on E damage and know how to last hit.


Doesn't matter how many times you delete and remake this thread, I'll still point out the same shit.

Because riot wants malzahar to revolve around an AI spell. That's what we're left with. AI interactions aren't that bad for spells. After riot fixed zyra plants AI logic they actually became oppressive, and now they're balanced. The problem is that voidlings actually move around and have wonky AI logic (stop moving when target is out of vision, start focusing another target as soon as E runs out on initial target).

TheGrot2 votes

How is that wonky? That's what's intended; those aren't accidents

Faustavian1 votes

I just want three things with Malzahar:

  1. Him to diss Kassadin with jokes and taunts should he lane against him,
  2. Him to fulfill the voidling hive overlord fantasy I have when playing him.
  3. Viability
iTaLenTZ1 votes

I disagree. He had far more diversity before the MYMU rework

  • You could play him as an AD jungler
  • His voidling could tank creeps and block skillshots
  • He transisitioned from a dualer into a tankmelter during the game
  • You could play him as a burst champ or with sustained damage
  • You could stack your passive to enter lane with a voidling to counter hardpush/or hardpush yourself
  • There was so much more decisionmaking with his old passive I can't even sum them all up
  • He lost all zone potential and teamfight damage with the removal of his pool (W)
  • Lowering the silence and lowering his movement speed will make it very hard to catch someone or even have enough time to do the combo if the Q hits.
  • Lowering his attack range and armor weakened his lanephase vs a lot of AD assasins which he was supposivily to counter
  • Lost all objective control and ability to invade the enemy jungler. Voidlings can't even help taking towers anymore.

I never had problems facing a Malzahar after the rework since he was basically garbage if you knew how to play against him. Shifting his power back into the voidlings is the worst idea ever. You already are saying that yourself. With a 20-30s window in whitch he is useless and all damage controlled by AI and randomness no thanks.

I have written dozens of post about Malzahar and I believe it is best to go back to basics, do a full revert and go from there again. I also believe the problem is his R. It conditions him too much and his oponents as well. QSS and nowadays many other items like Sterak and Banshee would counter him completely. The whole problem in turning his entire kit into a funel of being a sustained damage dealer means he will always be a lower priority pick than Vlad and Cassio. It is their competitive advantage and Malz can't compete with them on their field. And the least you want to do is play him only for his R because it is not that good.

Riot mentioned Malzahar is primary a lockdown mage and secondly a sustained damage dealer. With over 500K mastery points on him and reaching D2 maining Malz let me be very clear that he sucks as both. He was succesful as an early game anti assasin who could presure the enemy with invades and objective control and in midgame he would transition into a tankmelter peeling for his adc. If you want lockdown pick Morgana, Ryze, Lux, or even Syndra and Oriana. If you want sustained damage you pick Vlad, Cassio, Brand or Zyra.

The truth is with his current kit and kit on the PBE revolving around his R Malzahar will still be a useless champ that will only succeed because he makes someone else useless as well as long as he doesn't know how to play against him.

SoraLow1 votes

Necroing thread, fight me.

This post assumes that Malz is actually trying to 1v1 his opponent. What I see most malz do is win through not loosing. They use their E and voidlings on the wave, then back down. They do nothing else. For the entire duration of the lane. Many of them take tp as well. Which means as the opposing player, you literally have to spend the entire laning phase fighting against the wave. Malz generally wont make any sort of aggressive move on you until his jungler is there.

Ok so he doesnt loose, but you dont either right? So fair is fair?

Except in solo que.

Malz imposes an infinite stalemate, and wont break it unless he is FORCED to break it. What I mean by this is. If his team is winning early. If his top or bot is doing well for example. Malz is never going to step out of his turtle and never going to give you a window of opportunity to attack him. Especially with the spell shield, wasting an attack on him to pop the shield means you loose the push. Not attacking him means he keeps his shield and he furthers the stalemate. You as the opposing player have to now make a choice between A. Roam to help your team and loose your tower (because malz can push the tower down in 1-2 waves) or B. Stay and be caught in this neutral and hope your team can make it up without you.

On the flip side, if Malz team starts loosing he now has the CHOICE to break that stalemate and help his team by roaming or playing more aggressively in lane such as a flash ult combo etc. Again though malz has the luxury of choosing when to end that stalemate and also has the luxury of reinstating it.

Not saying malz is broken, In fact I am well aware that there are weaknesses to the champion. However I would say as a player who has mained mid lane for 5 years. There is no champion in this game that I have ever faced in mid lane that I feel this deep lack of counterplay to the lane. It's a brain dead lane and it is absolutely no fun to play against.

Have fun playing HIS minion mini game for 20 min. Because there is very little interaction between him and you. Which imo is poor design.

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