it's not enough to just have high base damage for tanks, now their damage is scaling directly from defensive stats
do us a favor and make it AD scaling. if he wants to have damage as a CC monster, he should have to build it.
Giggling Granny7 votes
What???? for years now tanks deal damage based of how much armor they have....or HP that not something new...do people really dont play malphite any more and forget how his E work? that should ring bell..of HOW USELESS is malphite because riot dosnet buff him..
Chembaron Yamada1 votesWhat I just don't understand: Why is his damage scaling with armor and magic resist? Why not just make it armor?
Malphite just scales with armor, so does Rammus and Sejuani just scales with health. Galio has magic resist scalings, but no armor scaling if I remember correctly.
So why does he need both? Just armor would make sense for me thematically.
Ralanr1 votesHe doesn't respect magic from the sounds of it.
Plus he's not the only tank with two resistance scalings. Leona has both on her W.
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesWhile I agree with your point, Leona's scalings only increase her armor and MR. The damage of her W comes from a flat number+%AP.
Ralanr1 votesTrue.
Honestly I'm not worried about his E scalings because the base damage is very low. Something that the OP hasn't pointed out.
Ralanr6 votesOrnn charges, dealing 20/40/60/80/100 (+ 40% armor)(+ 40% mr) physical damage to enemies hit. If Ornn rams into terrain, the resulting shockwave will deal **40/80/120/160/200 (+40% armor)(+40% mr) ** physical damage and knock up enemies for 1 second. The shockwave destroys magma pillars and terrain created by enemy champions.
All things considered, that's pretty low.
TwinkiePro1 votesFull build he can burst an ADC pretty hard actually, but its mainly do to the brittle effect being procced 3 times if combo'd right.
Ralanr3 votesWho can't burst an adc hard at full build?
Spoofghoul1 votesIt's nice though, for a tank to have some resistance scaling
i wish Sion had some more hp scaling in his abilities
The ult would be a good one, now they buff the base damage which is fine, but the 0.8 bonus ad ratio doesn't do too much, an hp ratio here would be much appreciated
They could even make the shields damage scale with sion's hp i mean you get 3 seconds to move out of the way or destroy it which should be plenty
Sire Hippington1 votes~600-700 damage at fullbuilt with no off stats is low?(if you charge through them and then hit terain, it's 300+80% total armor/mr) The only reason it's not broken is that it's rather conditional and on decent cd and because itemizeing for arpen doesn't work well on him.
Ralanr1 votesHe also maxes it last from what I can tell and how much resistances are you packing to turn 300 base damage into 600-700 total damage?
Sire Hippington1 votes400-500 combined, getting somehintg like ~300armor and ~200mr is pretty common at full tank builts later on. Bases+stoneplate+runes+masteries are nearly 300combined already....
And i don't see why he would max Q over E, it gets twice the damage/rank, is his main mobillity aswell as his bigest cc tool aside from ult so getting the cd lower is rather valuable.
Ralanr1 votesWhere are getting 400?
100+200 is 300. I'm counting based before scalings.
Though you have a point on the leveling order.
Sire Hippington1 votes?? Where do you get the 400 from? If you mean the aditional damage from scaleings to reach 700 total, i already explained that. With 300 armor+200mr you get 500x0.8 = 400 damage from the scaleings...
Ralanr1 votesOk ok I'm missing something.
The max base damage on his E if he hits a wall is 300 because it's the 100 of the initial cast+wall slam.
What I'm confused about was when you said it was 400-500 base damage because I said 300 base damage and you corrected me to 400-500 base damage that gets to 700 because of the resistance scalings.
Sire Hippington1 votesI didn't say 400-500 base damage, the '400-500 combined' reffered to your "how much resistances are you packing to turn 300 base damage into 600-700 total damage?" and is the amount of mr + armor you need to get that much damage.
Ralanr1 votesOhh. Ok that's where I got confused.
So Ornn would need 500-400 armor and MR to make it reach 700 damage?
That's incredibly unrealistic to get of both resistances outside of activating stoneplate which reduces his damage by 60% anyway.
Sire Hippington1 votesYou don't need 400-500 of both, you need it combined, so either 250 of both or 100 armor + 400mr or 300armor + 200mr and so on.
And the stonplate active doesn't give resis, it gives hp. It's the **passive **effect that grants extra resis near 3+ opponents.
Ralanr1 votesMy bad on stoneplate.
So this basically only hurts a lot late game into a wall.
I don't see the problem.
Shale Interloper1 votesYou're double counting the scaling. It's 300x.4 for armor and 200x.4 for mr=200base damage+200 scaling. Not 500x.8=200 base damage+ 400 scaling. Bit difference. You don't get 40% MR scaling on armor that's why it's not 500x.8 but 500x.4. That's all just wrong on the math
Sire Hippington1 votesa) You're late to the party as those values are not the same that shipped to live anyway b) You're wrong, which most likely most is likely because you are late and don't have the values that he had 21 days ago on PBE
At that point on PBE, his E did 100+0.4 armor+0.4 mr on the charge and 200+ 0.4mr+0.4armor on impact vs terrain, so if he charged through you and then hit terain for the shockwave damage, it combined to 100 + 0.4 armor + 0.4 mr + 200 + 0.4 armor + 0.4 mr, So 300 + 0.8armor + 0.8 mr Or in short, he had those 0.4 scaleings on both charge and shockwave, so if he landed both, it doubled to 0.8 on the full damage.
dark100dark1001 votesCharge seems slow, easy to step away. You can do this damage in very special conditions (enemy is stunned and there is a terran behind them). The whole chmapion is designed around delayed combos with very high damage, and that is balanced.
LankPants5 votesThe base damage on the ability is pure garbage. Even with 250 in each resist it's only going to deal 300 damage, 400 on a wall, which makes it just better than the expected base damage on most abilities.
With that context I don't see a problem with it.
Sire Hippington1 votesThe charge and shockwave damage stack, so it's actually 300+400 if you charge through them befor hitting the wall, which is quite alot.
Weathered2 votesThis is only on one ability.
https://i.gyazo.com/342976e0bae6a4ad4f06f0156aec1274.png
His other abilities have AD and Health scaling.
sutora32 voteshis ult doesnt have a scaling at all just accept that riot want him to be cc bot and to be more suportive than doing damage event tho that his voicelines scream-I HATE everyone that isnt me I hate that riot made all tank(execpt juggernauts) cc suports with no damage
Ralanr2 votes
and 
would like a word with you.
sutora31 votesthay are different.they arent the standart cc bot with zero thoughts to it they have great ad scalings and thus can be played like assasins or tanks with black cleaver (sion litteraly deals 10%max health on hit in his passive) they have damage scalings on all abilties and every single abilty deals damage(including passive)
Titanium702 votesThere's simply no other way if you want to create a dedicated Tank. What would your solution be to fill the base-DMG gap?
Just straight up high base-DMG and than watch people running Pen-Builds?
Rockem Sockm2 votesHe doesn't have high base damage. His mana costs are completely insane. His cooldowns are longer than the bullshit you posted.
Meep Man2 votesI disagree. His base damage is pretty low on said ability unless you line it up perfectly with terrain. Hitting his E perfectly is only a little easier than hitting a Sion Q, especially since his E has a small delay. On the rest of his abilities, his Q follows your suggestion and his W has to have the enemy right in front of him to be effective. His R doesn't even have scaling.
Ben Sharpio1 votesor we could have him be broken for half a year that would be pretty cool
Big Lincoln2 votesstandard fare for most tanks
1011001110001 votes
BenTbeyondrepair1 votesTaric and Braum also have some health and resistance based scaling its really not a problem for supports whats difficult is that orrn looks like he is strong enough to go top
1011001110008 votes"It's not a problem when a support gets damage scaling with resistances. But this top laner right here, HE isn't allowed to have it."
Do you see the problem with your statement?
They also have only one dmging ability.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesHAve you ever played against taric top as a bruiser? His damage is INSANE-
No More Cages1 votesResistance Scaling Damage
[Ornn] (
)
All four of these five champions that have been released already see some level of play top lane, and none of them has really been a balance nightmare because of the resistance scaling. It's everything else that causes issues for them whenever they become problems. Arguably, those who scale with health have been problems more than these fellows have.
Health scaling damage
The same goes for these fellows and their health scaling right now, though! The three of them that had vividly memorable recent issues (Sejuani, Shen, Vladimir) all had them from different sources than their HP - Damage conversion. Sejuani's were from the tank rework's idea to shove tons of CC, tankiness, and damage all in one ball and to hope it didn't fall apart...which is why she was looked at. Shen's were from his ability to mindlessly splitpush and join fights on time anyways which massively tilted scales in organized play, not his health scaling. Vladimir's issue was Rylai's at first, and then how his Crimson Rush worked after Rylai's was reigned in - again, not his health scaling.
All in all, having defensive stats translate to damage just gives most champions that have it a unique way to contribute - whether it be by adding ambient damage, being an aggressive threat, or having enough damage to offset an enemy's shielding or healing, or even simply being a particularly hard counter to teams that stack a single damage type. It hasn't been a consistent issue in the past to my knowledge, and as long as it's at reasonable levels, shouldn't be in the future.
Chogath - The Exception
AuraCreed1 votesWhat gets me is that he's a Vanguard Tank that can do damage at all.
Sorry, but after playing 
for so long and having her damage being "exchanged" for her CC all the time I just get annoyed when that doesn't happen to any other tank.
Ralanr1 votes is a vanguard tank that does damage.
AuraCreed1 votesThat's just it - Leonas the only of the Vanguard that doesn't really bring any damage to the table, at all.
Meep Man1 votesI mean, whenevr I play ADC, I always feel pressured by Leona damage-wise. At least early game that is.
DuskDaUmbreon1 votesYou clearly haven't played her right, then. She can do a scary amount of damage to a squishy. W>E>Q, wait for the W to pop, and walk away safely. You take almost no damage (none if you have CoC's shield), and still deal a quarter of a squishy's health. For a lvl3 combo. As a tank.
AuraCreed1 votesYou can do more damage as another Vanguard or Warden tank in the same position. Compared to them, she doesn't provide enough damage threat to scare the botlane off from hard focusing your adc, even at lvl 3.
Her q and w do a good chunk early, but her basic attacks compared to other tank supports are lacking. She blows her combo and she has to back off and if she can't her and her adc are possibly screwed. Sion, Nautilus, Braum, Thresh - they can all keep pressing the issue if they aren't hovering protectively over their adcs. Whether or not they have too is situation dependent.
You can have the same general amount of cc Leona has with more damage by picking nearly any other tank support.
Kloqdq1 votesEh? He doesn't really do a whole lot even with that armor and mr scaling. It's like 80 bonus damage at 200 armor and mr which is pretty low. Only goes up to 120 at 300 armor. That doesn't give him a whole lot of damage on his E. His R and W have no stat scaling just rank so he loses out on a lot of damage. He doesn't have a big passive like Galio or something so his damage output is one of the lowest by the looks of it.
FantasySniper1 votesIt's only his [E] Searing Charge:
Ornn charges, dealing 20/40/60/80/100 (+ 40% armor)(+ 40% mr) physical damage to enemies hit. If Ornn rams into terrain, the resulting shockwave will deal 40/80/120/160/200 (+40% armor)(+40% mr) physical damage and knock up enemies for 1 second.
And the base damage on that is shit considering you're more than likely going to level it last.
xxxMadLionxxx1 votesWell it forces him to build armor and mr instead of health. That way he is weaker to true damage than other thanks
