Why not 7% though

Sasogwa··47 votes·2,695 views

In season 5, Botrk was at 8% current health per auto and it was really a balance problem cause it was a crazy allrounder item with both great powerspike and good scaling, with utility : lifesteal and active. In season 6, it got pretty harshly nerfed to 6%, and the item has been weak since then. Yes it gave a various amount of stats and is versatile; but simply not enough it seemed.

And now we go back to 8%. Can we just, go to 7% ? Like, have a try? You know, to get something finally balanced maybe. And I speak as a Yi main, on which botrk is basically the item with the most synergy so it's not like I'm biased against it.

41 Comments

aperson18 votes

How about they actually fix the item having way too many stats and use cases instead of playing seesaw with its values?

Rioters keep talking about how they need to change it substantially yet nothing has come out of it.

FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votes

This. I think it'd be better if some AS was removed and was replaced with armor, so as to focus on its life gain and make it specifically a bruiser item that a carry might think of getting on occasion. BORK has had an identity crisis for way too long.

Bardful1 votes

I thought it was anti-tank for carries. It has %health, attack speed and life steal (anti-thornmail).

FCJAAAAGOOOO1 votes

Exactly. Who knows what the intentions were for this item?

SlashStriker7 votes

Fervor of Battle got nerfed if 8% is too strong they will put it to 7% so we need to see how its gonna be

altho that wont change the fact that Vayne seems pretty uncounterable right now but who knows

RavenMagus12 votes

Vayne doesn't even care about BorK anymore since she's become a one shot crit machine with her Q.

Bruised Ego4 votes

Maybe they expect tanks to creep back into the meta with the mastery changes and they are preemptively adding counter-play so that we don't end up with OP tanks for many patches.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

tanks will rise with the rise of assassins

champs like Bard Kayle Lissandra Lulu Shen TahmKench Urgot Zilean will most likely see a lot more play due to assassins as well

Skia Asteri2 votes

Because KogMaw does not have double attack speed anymore. And at the time they nerfed the damage or in patches since then they also increased the total cost and the cost of item 3144 .

Critmaster Garen2 votes

it wasnt nerfed because it would be too strong on rework kog. it was nerfed because it was way too strong of an item. bork was supposed to be nieche against hp stacking teams. but it was so good, that it was often an item that was rushed in lane, and/or regardless of matchup.

it was never intended to be a rush item or a core item on certain champions, but a supporting item for extreme edge cases, like thornmail is intended as an item against full adc teamcomps.

it was also replaced by item 3034 and item 3036 which in combination with the bork of past seasons would be broken as fuck.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

only that thornmail doesn´t work at all anymore sigh but no surprise they´d buff the niche item that is more likly to get (ab)used by marksmen

Unicky2 votes

I'm not saying 7% isn't a plausible choice, but a lot of bortk users do need some help and the price increase didn't help either. Zed doesn't want it (he likes armor pen lethality more), Jax doesn't want it (he likes gunblade more). Aatrox, Kog'maw and Kalista on the other hand absolutely love it and all 3 of them suck pretty badly right now. I think it'll be great incentive to get Jax and Zed back on Blade train and that it'll help out some of it's weaker users a lot more.

Personally I'm a huge supporter of blade getting the 2% (I mean I said it in my Kog'maw analysis) back but that's just me being a salty Kog'maw main. That's my opinion on the matter anyways.

EDIT : I also wanted to mention that the meta shifted a lot for ADC's since season 5 and I think that it will be a lot less abusable than it was back then. The main offender was kalista who has been nerfed into the ground, vayne made great use of it but she's building crit now and Kog'maw is well...y'know dead as of now. I feel like a lot of the champions that would abuse it now have better options and the champions that need it now kind of need the help. Just to reiterate.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

because the damage is out of hand and even at 8 % it will be meh. damage has been hightened up.

also they made it like 400 gold more expensive.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

wasnt the 8% of maximum hp before it got changed to 6% of currrent hp ?

Sasogwa14 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2fujPUe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-11-09T11:27:00.736+0000)

wasnt the 8% of maximum hp before it got changed to 6% of currrent hp ?

it's always been current HP on the on-hit I believe

oSEXYPLATYPUSo3 votes

seems your right... it use to have more active damage and other things... i just remember it use to be broken

Sasogwa2 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2fujPUe,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:45:49.242+0000)

seems your right... it use to have more active damage and other things... i just remember it use to be broken

Yeah.. Was broken on release despite being 5% on hit because the lifesteal was way higher and the active stealed more health and ms. League of botrk. Then nerfed on several occasions and then on 4.10 nerfed heavily on lifesteal but buffed on on-hit (8% (!)) cause Riot wanted it to be anti-tank ; ms steal nerfed. At that point it was kinda ok; quite strong. Then for some reason in 5.8 they decided lifesteal should apply the on-hit. Pretty strong buff, item borderline OP. 5.10 they buffed it (???) on the active range. Then 5.22 they butchered it (price increased, on-hit 6%)


Yeah considering the price increase, maybe 8% would be ok now, idk. Still feel it's gonna be strong and impacting the toplane a lot.

Auz the Ripper1 votes

it also gave 40 AD on release

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Auz the Ripper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2fujPUe,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:59:25.435+0000)

it also gave 40 AD on release

Uh yeah I did a mistake technically by saying "release", I meant when the item started having the big change (3.03) and became completely different. It had 30 AD at that moment. Before that botrk was kinda garbage, no attackspeed, lower magical on-hit ; just like a weaker version of Madred's Bloodrazor.

JerulEon1 votes

I think you're right. It used to be maximum hp. Plus machine gun kog is gone so a buff to the item would be nice

Frius1 votes

8% max hp ,hahahaha

Seenan1 votes

Yeah, this has been on my mind for a long time. 8% was too strong. 6% was too weak. Why not 7%?

DunkinNoobs1 votes

It's still a bad item and still won't be built.

Ireliavence1 votes

i miss when it was magic damage. its been shitty for me ever since.

Very Hard Engage1 votes

the item could easily be balanced with either a small bump to as or lifesteal, not ad, dont want jax or irelia to get more of that >.>

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

BORK is good only lategame or vs hp stackers...

AMYS GRAVE1 votes

Because the person who put out this patch has their head so far up their ass that they forgot anything about the history of how the game was balanced?

The Blue Rajah1 votes

Because they did increase the price, so it's still nerfed compared to last season.

Fondling Gems1 votes

I think that it wont be so bad since On hit builds have taken a beating. Kog got his on hit substantially nerfed reverted. On hit builds a weak right now, fervor was removed. Honestly taking all that into account I don't think it is going to be so bad. Flat AD is very strong right now and in light of that I think 8% on hit is pretty reasonable this time around.

TotalJerk1 votes

#CLEANNUMBERS

Sightless661 votes

It is worth keeping in mind that this particular nerf came along with a 200 cost increase as well, and happened before the removal of stated devourer in 6.9 (which had much more synergy with on-hit effects than the reworked rageblade, even taking into consideration its upcoming buffs). Reversion of the on-hit damage is pretty justifiable when those are considered.

AirKingNeo1 votes

Make it 8% melee, 6% ranged, lower the cost by 200. Fixed BoRK

Mouse5341 votes

I think it was ment to go with the life steal options, making the ADCs pick between item 3072 item 3139 and item 3153 based on situation. It was never intended as a first pick except for those that had high synergy with its stats. Just my thoughts on that, just like I thought 7% seemed to be the next buff to see if it hits that sweet spot of being a lifesteal option.

Potent Rodent1 votes

Personally I believe they should've just changed it to physical instead of magical damage and left it at 8%

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Potent Rodent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2fujPUe,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:36:56.285+0000)

Personally I believe they should've just changed it to physical instead of magical damage and left it at 8%

Huh? You mean magical instead of physical? Cause it's all physical

Potent Rodent1 votes

Really? I thought it was 8% magical damage, then they moved it to 6% physical

Sasogwa1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Potent Rodent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=k2fujPUe,comment-id=001500000000,timestamp=2016-11-09T23:41:59.810+0000)

Really? I thought it was 8% magical damage, then they moved it to 6% physical

Nah it's always been paired with youmuu's for the physical pen synergy. However, I think at one point the ACTIVE was magical. Not quite sure though.

Edit : I checked, it started being physical at patch 3.03 at the point they changed it to grant attackspeed. When it was magical it didn't grant attack speed and was 4%/5% current health depending on the patch (damn it looked really garbage). And apparently the active was always physical, I was wrong.

Potent Rodent1 votes

Huh, strange. I have no idea where my magic damage came from in my build back then if that's the case

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

(Madreds Bloozraer, which did % max health on hit, was magic damage)

Ale non è male1 votes

Because the problem is not in the numbers, is in the way the item work, and they haven't either understod that OR they have understood but they are too scared to do the change required (and it would be a legit concern, but at least they should make it clear)

What should item 3153 be? A hp health buyer buster (either a tank or a bruiser which happen to buy a lot of health), no?

What does item 3153 do right now? Work better on squishies than on hp buyers

It is a paradox for a in item which damage come mainly from %health damage, but is just the reality of the situation A tank/bruiser get more damage from %health damage on passive, but at least has high resistence and given the low raw damage stats the item BoTRK contribute little to the rest of his overall damage A squishy has almost no resistence so it is affected by both the damage on passive and by the offensive stats the item gives and in the end BoTRK is more effective against them than against tank

And it will always be this way for instrinsec reasons as long as the item works this way, whether the item is gutted or overpowered (and at 7% will still be one or the other depending on the rest of the game balance)

There is only ONE way to change this, and it is put % max health damage alongside % current health damage, because it is the only way on which an item that work that way can affect hp buyers more than squishies

But I also see the concern on doing that, obviously. Put % max health damage on an item everyone can buy is a big potential risk (unless the number is very low but then it would be ineffective), and would also show flaws in their design philosophy, as they are keep increasing the usage of %max hp damage on kits, even though gated by the famours 3-hit passives or things like those and would force them to put big amount of work to redesing the power balance of various champs that have %max hp damage as part of their power to avoid completely unbalanced situations with champ abusing the synergies with that and other items (es. pick/ban Vayne)

So, they are in a cul-de-sac (a dead end), they either have an item that is inherently unbalanced, and at that point better to make it clear if it is gutted or overopwered and intentionaly not go for a middle ground and make their balance levers easier to use for them, or make the change required that carry in itself a huge risk

And they should better clarify this thing once and for all, because the situation is, well, non sustainable.

They don't want to use %max hp on such a similar item? OK, but then let's make it clear to costantly work and gie special attentionon the champs that should use those items They want to make the item effective for what is meant to be? Run the risk and put %max hp on it so you can stop with this actual situation, even if it means they got to do a massive amount of work on gameplay updates

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