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Why does Bard W cost 100-120 mana, yet is one of the least efficient heals in the game?

DeusVult··46 votes·2,866 views

His W, which is a conditional heal, taking 10 seconds to reach full effectiveness, allies have to run over it to get the heal, enemies can destroy it, and he can only have 3 at one time, in addition to his heal being one of the weaker heals in the game.

Now you take all that, put it together, and its only after that you realize that his heal cost the same as almost every ult at rank 1, and then costs more than them as you rank it up.

WHY? WHY DOES IT COST SO MUCH? Most other heals do more than his, are stronger, and cost less.

Alistar Can heal his whole team plus minion wave and do it repeatedly in a short time since its CD goes down as enemies die near him. Janna Is an ult, but also has CC attached to it. Nami Heal, plus MS increase, plus damage if it bounce to an enemy. Costs less mana. Soraka Its Soraka; strongest heals in the game. Sona Heal + Shield Taric Heals himself + target

Hell, even Kayle's heal is stronger, gives a longer MS increase, and that MS increase scales with AP.

There is no reason why Bard heal should be the most expensive heal in the game while it is also the most conditional and one of the worst.

44 Comments

NoMonku22 votes

The heal is so expensive because you can place them ANYWHERE on the map. All of those champions, excluding Soraka when she uses her ultimate, NEED to be present in order to heal her team. Bards heal can be used at ANY time as long as they walk over it, making it incredibly powerful. It also gives a MS buff too, giving you a higher chance to escape if you are using it to retreat.

Old Man Teeto14 votes

Chimes...

Give...

MANA.

Dude gets hella good mana sustain for going to pick up a few chimes.

Rand0mH3r0X1 votes

One of Bard's recent updates was +2 to xp and +4 to mana. This means 4 xp per chime and 6 mana.

DeusVult1 votes

Chimes give way more than 6 mana...

1000angrybees9 votes
  • Alistar's heal is just awful, especially without ap.
  • cant be used until level 6, is always 100 mana, shouldnt be used until absolutely necessary
  • Nami 's heal is very costly after rank 2. 100 mana at rank 3, 130 at rank five. Healing for a higher, flat amount with bonus ap while also poking is definitely a good ability, though.
  • Soraka sacrifices her own health for a decent heal. Pretty fair tradeoff.
  • Sona has a pretty bad heal. Only good with lots of ap, and if your ally is lower on health. As you rank it up it gets costly as well. Yeah, it comes with a shield, but seeing as it seems like more of an immediate 'protect in battle' type of ability, that doesnt concern me.
  • Taric has a pretty decent heal. He's a ball of weird mixed stats, and you hardly see him anymore, though.
  • kayle doesnt see much use in support lately. It costs a fair amount as it ranks up, with 5 being 100 mana. Her heal is definitely pretty good as she gets ap and levels up tho.

Not to mention bard can place three under turret and let them charge for when the adc needs it. remember, it's not really a 'battle heal' per se, it's more of a 'trade and heal' or 'take this when you need it' type. (makes sense seeing as he roams collecting chimes. Why not just plop it down next to someone who could use it and go on your merry way?)

Tis a nice day3 votes

A lot of people say Alistar's heal is horrible, but as a pure heal, even though it's weak, it's still quite efficient mana-wise compared to most other heals, even when he's just healing himself.

Sona lvl 1 heal: 80 mana. 30 hp for 2 targets, max 45 hp heal if target nearly out of health. Shield. Kayle: 60 mana. 60 hp target heal with good AP ratio. Speed boost. Nami: 70 mana. 65 hp heal with damage and an additional +45.5 heal on another target if it bounces nicely.

Alistar lvl 1 heal: 40 mana. Self heal 60 hp, 30 hp for all allies in range including winions.

Taric's heal strictly outclasses Alistar's when only one or two champions are involved, although it also suffers from having one of the longest cooldowns for a heal in the game if he can't proc his passive.

Also Alistar's heal is beast in ARAM games.

1000angrybees2 votes

Cant argue that it's not better than sona's heal, especially early game.

SlytherinUmbreon4 votes

They raised his mana costs to ridiculous amounts to counterbalance how much mana Chimes gave and partially to force him to roam. But they didn't raise the value of his abilities to match their costs, because that would probably be broken.

Tmoose3 votes

Remember magical journey costs 30 mana and chimes restore mana so I have never had a huge mana problem with bard

KING OF MASKS3 votes

Answer: rito hates heals.

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

Bard's heal needs to be higher. The utility is fine, but the value needs to be higher. It at least needs to scale better. That's the major thing holding Bard back. If his heal were more effective, he'd be a decent support... But as it stands now, you're looking at an unreliable slow, a contextual stun, a travel mechanic that's rarely useful except to bait (it telegraphs ganks worse than Thresh's lantern), a tricky ult and an ineffectual heal.

Apollocliptic1 votes

Magical Journey and his ultimate are the most powerful ganking tools in the game, more say than Shaco's stealth or Fiddles ultimate, but it requires "Communication" and "teamwork" not very present in soloQ

Someone mentioned that the heal has a minimum at 1-9 seconds and a max heal at 10 seconds. The heal should scale with the size, then get a buff at 10 seconds (like 1 - 50% heal from 1 - 9, then 100% heal at 10 seconds) even that'd be a HUGE improvement, as those last 1/2 seconds of waiting can be so painful.

Personally I agree that if the scaling was better, either per level or with AP, he'd be so much more viable, but I'd be happy if the shrines granted a small vision range. Placing them in the jungle would make them far more useful late game, as it can help a split pusher, or make incredible baiting opportunities, as that Udyr or Nidalee gets a hp and speed buff and makes your facepalm for chasing them in the first place (while simultaneously avoiding traps thanks to the vision)

Zero Shingetsu2 votes

Vision WOULD be nice. And/or, maybe make the enemy pay a little for breaking them. Like maybe have half the heal applied as damage to enemies who step on the shrines, or make it a slow that scales with time placed from like 5% to 25%. The shrines can then double for utility and serve as a decent way to guard choke points.

Apollocliptic1 votes

I'd love it if they did damage, but I doubt that'd ever go live. I think the argument is that they act as a tool to trick enemies out of position anyway (even if only at bronze/silver level) I often put a shrine in lane next to the wall. "I Dare you to walk over it, go on, I dare you" I say to myself with my finger hovering over the Q button lol

I think if it granted vision of enemies that walked on it, that'd be enough (though i'd prefer a constant small vision field) I once suggested a root mechanic, but then realised that it'd be a bit too strong

On a side note, here's one of my favourite tricks, place two heals on the other end of a wall (if you are right hand side preferably) the long one that goes behind the turret. After a trade off, if you look like you're about to die, wait until absolutely last second, then Magical journey to safety. They know they can follow you, but they have no way of knowing that you've got a double, or even triple heal pack waiting, plus speed boost and a stun for when they arrive. You can really turn tables in a fight like that. Even if they don't follow, you can return to lane and keep going. It's also useful because the jungler can pass by for some free heals if they need it, especially if they're coming for an early gank

BoxOfDOG2 votes

Because Rito is scared of Bard actually being good and taking over in the LCS.

Only problem with that is he hasn't even been PLAYED in the LCS.

grLKQ9ma0o1 votes

He's been played in LPL and LCK. Even Lustboy played it at MSI.

Erockandroll1 votes

I'm betting that Riot is balancing that on best case scenario for bard. Which is literally stepping on all 3 fully charged cookies at one. And Honestly that is actually a huge amount of burst healing coming from 3 changed cookies (and possibly an extra not change cookie if the spells off cooldown)

item 3070 Soraka item 3070 "At least he's not spending health to heal his team."

SlytherinUmbreon1 votes

But it also costs 3x the mana

Marthian1 votes

But he also heals mana from chimes.

Krigjer1 votes

{quoted}

I'm betting that Riot is balancing that on best case scenario for bard. Which is literally stepping on all 3 fully charged cookies at one. And Honestly that is actually a huge amount of burst healing coming from 3 changed cookies (and possibly an extra not change cookie if the spells off cooldown)

The downside here is that there's nothing stopping the enemy from casually strolling past your turret to step on the chimes. I would like a stun or a slow as a penalty for being stepped on, to make it into a strategic decision. Do you get rid of the ability to heal on the enemy team and get stunned, or avoid it so you don't get caught?

Gavran1 votes

Taking the time to turn them off "roots" you. And uh... you're supposed to stop them from walking past your turret...

Krigjer1 votes

{quoted}

Taking the time to turn them off "roots" you. And uh... you're supposed to stop them from walking past your turret...

'roots' Yes, it's such a strong form of cc that you have to put it in quotation marks.

As it is I can either choose to heal an ally for less than half the health immediately, or place a health pack that must be PROTECTED so it can charge up to heal the same amount as other healing abilities that are instant cast. Sounds fair!

Gavran1 votes

They can either stand on that spot for X seconds, which is 100% equivalent to being rooted, or not destroy it.

If you can't protect the space behind your tower you lost the game already.

Krigjer1 votes

{quoted}

They can either stand on that spot for X seconds, which is 100% equivalent to being rooted, or not destroy it.

If you can't protect the space behind your tower you lost the game already.

You just have to walk over it, you don't have to stand on it to destroy it. So yes, a Jinx can casually walk around the turret while still autoing, destroying all the health packs.

Stop talking.

Gavran1 votes

If a Jinx is inside your turret range and you just sit there, you're literally the worst player.

And I can see why 'cause you seem like a shitty person too lol

Krigjer1 votes

{quoted}

If a Jinx is inside your turret range and you just sit there, you're literally the worst player.

And I can see why 'cause you seem like a shitty person too lol

And you're calling me a bad player simply because someone gets into turret range. Guess all those players in LCS are bad too, cause they lose turrets.

Your logic is flawless. Of course I'm the shitty person and not the one throwing out insults for no reason.

IcyPepper1 votes

Try playing jungle and having Bard put down three health packs for your first clears.

Maybe the cost could be lowered, but I've grown to love the heal. It's probably gated due to having three down at once to prevent uber heals.

DrNova1 votes

Why does Bard?

qetzel1 votes

It is a great movement speed boost. That is factored into the cost.

warpenguin5551 votes

lol i read this as brand instead of bard at 1st. phew XD

Lorinne1 votes

The mana cost is high because it's a little packet heal that stays where it's placed until used or destroyed or replaced. That being said, I think maybe the scaling could be buffed a wee bit. And maybe you can get the ability to place one more shrine when you max out the skill. The mana cost isn't that bad. Especially if you pick up chimes.

Tis a nice day1 votes

Even without mana regen items, Bard's chimes essentially mean that he has his own methods of mana regeneration

CubedJustice1 votes

And as bard, you'll probably be buying coin or spellthief's anyway.

Terchio1 votes

I think Chime Mana Regen is mostly it. I also rationalized it by its secondary capabilities: You can actually stack 3 heals in a safe part of your bush or behind tower, and either force the enemy to push too far to squash them, or fight the enemy head-on only to have them hop back to a triple-heal and sprint back to squash you. It should have quite decent utility on them, and can stack like that for the some of the highest burst-heal in the game, and then he can then cast it again for yet another heal (and, btw, minimum heal is not much worse than maximum with no AP... With AP, max heal maxes at 125% better heal than minimum, or just over double. It has its uses, but requires some strategic planning, which is somewhat poor for things like soloqueue and teamfights.

Zone of Endless1 votes

100 mana on his heal isn't much a big deal when you can get so much mana back from chimes. It gives speed boost and also last infinitely until picked up/destroyed/after max limit

If you use your W smartly then you wouldn't run out of mana that often.

What you do with bard is if you have above 90% mana just place a heal station down. Then wander to collect chime if you feel like you're not needed in lane.

Work with that you're given and play smart.

Drunk Rummate1 votes

Well you have to consider that it's a heal even when he's not there to cast it. He can just throw down 2 and leave, something Nami could never dream of doing. There's a lot of utility in that.

Blainezy1 votes

two words...speed boost.

NullDragon1 votes

It's intended to prevent spamming the heal in lane for infinite sustain, I think. His high mana costs are mitigated by his chimes giving him a crapton of mana.

If you're roaming, WHICH YOU SHOULD BECAUSE YOU'RE PLAYING BARD, his heal is free because of the 12% max mana restore on every chime you pick up.

Not many other champions in the game gain 2.4% of their max mana every 5 seconds. That is a lot of mana. Thus, W costs a lot of mana.

kanacho1 votes

Well the reason why is that Bard's Passive gives him massive mana recovery so it's extremely easy to keep spamming them if the mana cost is too low. The problem is that late game I hardly ever even lay W's down ahead of time, and even if I do, no one but me usually even notices/uses them. It discourages using the ability to its full effectiveness outside of combat, and I think the ability needs a bit of changing.

CoolKnightST1 votes

They just need to buff the movementspeed:

Gaining 50% bonus movement speed which decays over 1.5 seconds.

Not only is this bonus seriously underwhelming both it's duration as the power of the bonus is seriously lackluster. Compaired to others:

Nami Passive: When Nami's abilities hit allied champions they gain 40 (+ 10% AP) movement speed for 1.5 seconds. SInce she can hit almost all her own abilities on her she can refresh this bonus up to 2 times. Giving it a theoretically duration of 4.5 seconds without declay for the cost off 265 mana.

Kayle Divine Blessing: Movementspeed 18 / 21 / 24 / 27 / 30% (+ 7% per 100 AP) [IT doesn't declay!!] for a duration off 3 seconds

So this is the primary reason why this ability is so underwhelming. In order to buff it whe have a fell options:

  • Remove the declay from the bonus movement speed entirely.
  • Increase the duration to 3 seconds.
  • Increase the bonus movement speed to 100%
  • Or a mix of the first 3.
Malix Farwin1 votes

I think they hit their OP champ qouta with rek'sai release so now they had to make a gimped one so that Ekko can be OP.

Valhalla Rising1 votes

bard is a troll champ, created by riot specifically to troll it's community.

nothing more to it.

iainB851 votes

You listed those facts like the are strait up weaknesses.

The fact that they can be placed on the ground and can be run over when needed is also an advantage. Bard can lay them down in a safe spot such as around the turret, then wander to get chimes, help other lanes, or back to buy items. All other healers have to stay glued to their ADC to provide them any sustain.

That being said, until they change his ultimate I will always cringe when someone picks Bard on my team. Few abilities can screw over your own team as well as that one can. Even a well meaning ult often ends up doing more harm than good.

Wickedfates1 votes

Sona ya! poor bard.... such low ratios.... and base healz....

=^D

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