I don't understand that. I remember that some time ago Riot Repertoir claimed that they don't nerf a champion based on their performance at profissional play. And then, there is this. Can someone explain that?
RiotMeddler26 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play (adjustments to champions that pubstomp mainly, like Yi in some MMR ranges). At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do. Since the next patch (5.18) is the one the World Champs will be played on we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
SEKAI6 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play (adjustments to champions that pubstomp mainly, like Yi in some MMR ranges). At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do. Since the next patch (5.18) is the one the World Champs will be played on we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
So you're suggesting that the roster should be balanced according to divisions, and champs should only appear in their desired elo bracket?
Not sure if I read it wrong (I hope I am here) but that's just a wrong mentality to have especially when you're supposed to be balancing the game.
Even yourself also said that
At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do.
Then in the next sentence following that you said
we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
Huh?
Chromatic Eagle7 votesChampions have different strengths and weaknesses at different levels of play. Eve is strong at higher levels of play because players know how to play her well. Hence the nerfs. The juggernauts might be strong in all levels, but they're nightmares in low ranks.
SEKAI21 votes[{quoted}](name=Chromatic Eagle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=joO6HR08,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2015-09-09T11:20:43.404+0000)
Champions have different strengths and weaknesses at different levels of play. Eve is strong at higher levels of play because players know how to play her well. Hence the nerfs. The juggernauts might be strong in all levels, but they're nightmares in low ranks.
Given how there are champs like Lee who dominated the pro scene for 3 years straight by being broken (and Thresh is still roaming free), I personally don't see how being strong when used right warrants a nerf after a mere 1 appearance or 2.
Retillin14 votesYeah. Why did Lee get buffs right before Worlds? The only reason would be to tailor the World patch to what Riot "wants", instead of balance. I am not sure there has been a more blatant expression of Riot "LC$BIGPLAYS" than the build up for this years Worlds.
IcyPepper5 votesThey were even excited to buff Lee, according to some Rioter's twitter.
I wonder why buffing a champion would make them so excited. Hm.
Narasimha3 votesEh, say what you want about Lee, he's a lot more interesting than, say, Caitlyn or Annie.
IcyPepper1 votesCertainly (I mean might as well be honest), but he's always been popular. People just want to see more things, which I guess Riot has been doing good on lately since the rise of cinderhulk. I think?
3TWarrior1 votesI think sated devourer changed the jungle more, but it has changed it too much
yi, udyr, etc used to never see play as the jungler except from someone who really wanted to
now not only are they viable...they're a must have...it's wrong
The Yetii Rider2 votesGiven how there are champs like Lee who dominated the pro scene for 3 years straight by being broken (and Thresh is still roaming free), I personally don't see how being strong when used right warrants a nerf after a mere 1 appearance or 2.
Because Evelynn forces passive plays and punishes aggression even if you have perfect vision. If Evelynn is in the game, by nature her opponents play farm lanes, don't over extend or chase unless they see her in another lane, and etc.
When Evelynn is strong, her presence makes games less fun to watch.
SEKAI8 votesWhen Evelynn is strong, her presence makes games less fun to watch.
That sounds like a stupid reason to nerf a champ though, you shouldn't balance a game around how fun it is to be watched.
Eve deserves the right to be as strong as everyone else. If Riot really hates her that much just delete her then, at least it pays her more respect that way.
TotalJerk2 votesI kinda have to agree with both of you a bit. Evelynn's problem is that the stealth mechanic as a whole is not in a healthy state. If they want to nerf Evelynn, they ought to do it by offering itemization that allows better counterplay to her stealth, not her kit.
3TWarrior2 votesif they wanted to balance the game, they would have given eve the rework she deserves...she's a melee range assassin with support level damage unless full AD and if full AD, she will die before doign damage
Cosnirak1 votesLee has often been up there as an option. But he's also rarely been the top tier jungler worthy of bans (at least this seasons, I haven't seen as much of previous seasons). He's often picked as the left over option right now when a pro jungler has their main champions picked and banned away from them.
Perhaps more importantly is that the changes to Lee mostly help low tier players, not pros. They have very little impact on pro play.
Also where are you getting this mere 1 or 2 appearance thing from? Are you talking about Evelynn? She's seen tons of pro play this season.
SEKAI1 votesAlso where are you getting this mere 1 or 2 appearance thing from? Are you talking about Evelynn? She's seen tons of pro play this season.
I was more in line with the idea that getting massively picked in 1 or 2 of the many tournaments that we've been through shouldn't be a direct reason to nerf a champ.
Cosnirak1 votesI think Riot agrees with you on that. But Evelynn has seen play throughout much of the season in either all or most regions, including playoffs and even MSI. I don't think it's remotely unreasonable for them to look at whether or not she needs a nerf.
Champion Skin11 votesI don't know about pro play too much But is Evelynn really stronger and more problematic than Gragas, Reksai and such?
1Ferdinand13 votesEvelynn doesn't have the "OMG LOOK AT THOSE KNOCKBACK/UP" effect, this means from a spectator point of view is like watching Warwick AA someone to death, not very entertaining.
Nahara5 votesMaybe not, but the Eve/Shen submarine is funny as shit.
Gregor Gysi2 votesEvelynn doesn't have the "OMG LOOK AT THOSE KNOCKBACK/UP" effect, this means from a spectator point of view is like watching Warwick AA someone to death, not very entertaining.
I doubt that this is their reasoning seeing how they kept the old Ryze for years and also Eve is one of the champions that create a certain tension just due to their existance.
ihaveapotion1 voteswho cares what a spectator wants, games are meant to be PLAYED not meant to be watched passively.
Lucifer6 votesThen why aren't you looking at Thresh, who is dominating both pro play, ranked play and low levels of play with 40%+ pick rates.
KingEzz11 votes
Earl Eulrich2 votesand yet she´s not even really strong in pro-play...a niche pick of some junglers that still drops of rather hard if she doesn´t snowball. I really don´t get your idea of balancing here...Gragas is still dominant for his savety and playmaking ability, Azir and GP are both near 100%pick&ban due to their absurd lategame combined with a very save and strong laning-phase...Fiora would be a great champ if you´d put more emphasis on her passive instead of just rightclick-dmg. I really don´t know, but in the past years i rarly can remember a time when i wouldn´t want to play a game every now and then - and currently i´m really about to lose interest. You just seem to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
DanofDemacia3 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play (adjustments to champions that pubstomp mainly, like Yi in some MMR ranges). At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do. Since the next patch (5.18) is the one the World Champs will be played on we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
Don't upvote this nonsense eve isn't spectacular anywhere shes average across the board. Don't support this Bullshit
TotalJerk4 votesI'll upvote what I please, sir.
Linna Excel2 votesI've seen it suggested that Evelynn is a champion that riot doesn't want to see picked in worlds. Can you comment on this?
Salidfingers1 votes
did horribly in pro games and still got nerfed .
Nekusen1 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play
shouldn't it be the other way around? shouldn't the balance be done for the common player and then pros end up being the ones that got better at it ?
Bears Dont Care1 votesshouldn't it be the other way around? shouldn't the balance be done for the common player and then pros end up being the ones that got better at it ?
No. you never balanced around low level play. low level play does not use a champ tools as efficiently or play as well as a team.
Gusdel2 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play (adjustments to champions that pubstomp mainly, like Yi in some MMR ranges). At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do. Since the next patch (5.18) is the one the World Champs will be played on we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
You are nerfing a champion so hard that 99% if the player base won't do well with so less then 1% of the player base can't abuse her in a way that you see unfit? I don't watch lcs or care about worlds. This is truly disappointing and should anger more of the community. This isn't fair to the player's who support the game.
ScarnMichaelScar1 votes
ihaveapotion1 votesDo you even ever look at other modes such as dominion and aram? I think not, try getting eve in aram and proceed to be clubbed like a baby seal for the next 20 minutes. Does dominion EVER get shorter qeues?
Basilysk1 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play (adjustments to champions that pubstomp mainly, like Yi in some MMR ranges). At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do. Since the next patch (5.18) is the one the World Champs will be played on we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
Sry the hipocrisy is killing me, hope you can answer. Then what about Thresh? Annie? Morgana? Viktor? Go watch CLG vx TSM, pobelter didn't won against bjergsen Viktor did (i hate tsm don't even play the salty fanboy card) Rumble? Since you balance for everyone and this is not hipocrisy maybe you should nerf the ult dmg and make it easier to land, you care about everyone so yea go for it? :D
So no, you don't play favourites.
foinhas1 votes38% winrate is NOT being dominating at pro-level
Psi211 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play (adjustments to champions that pubstomp mainly, like Yi in some MMR ranges). At times that weighting of what's important will also get shifted a bit as we focus more on one type of play than we usually do. Since the next patch (5.18) is the one the World Champs will be played on we're looking at pro play significant champions more than usual, hence the investigation of whether we need to make any changes to Eve.
The guy who helped buff Jugg.s/tanks and brought snowball into ARAM; taking random pop shots on champs they think need to be balanced. Meh sounds about right.
Anyone else feel the same nerf gun they used to determine who talked in the patch preview maybe the same method they determine what champ to nerf?
Riot really needs to focus on the information the community is saying in these forms rather than pro play.
Like it is really professional to have even two champs like Yi and Kat that can bounce from team member to team member due to refreshing abilities in low rank games wiping the team.
Been here since beta and when trying to explain it to a new player... well I got nothing other than telling them they make lots of balancing mistakes.
Pika3101 votesThat's very hard for me to believe. Actions speak far louder than words and Riot's actions have been blatantly biased. Buffing LC$BIGPLAY$' favorites and gutting champions that specific employees hate, like Fearless and Sona for example.
SEKAI21 votesI guess all the long term meta champs like idk, Thresh get nerfed after pro scenes too.
OH WAIT.
That only applies to non meta champs, my bad.
RiotRiotRepertoir20 votesRiot Repertoir claimed that they don't nerf a champion based on their performance at profissional play
I'd be interested in seeing where I said this, because it doesn't seem consistent with how we do things. I can see that I might have said we don't only balance for professional play, but it doesn't make sense that I'd say we don't balance for pro play.
Merxamers6 voteseven here- if you're balancing Eve because of professional play, you are therefore 'only' balancing her for professional play.
Garlyle Wilds7 votesThat's an individual change's motivation though, not the overarching philosophy behind all changes.
YumaS2Astral2 votesI'd be interested in seeing where I said this, because it doesn't seem consistent with how we do things. I can see that I might have said we don't only balance for professional play, but it doesn't make sense that I'd say we don't balance for pro play.
I've not found that, but I've found this: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/UbAKH2HT-riot-doesnt-want-stable-balance?comment=0001
I could be wrong but I am pretty sure that some Rioter said that "they don't nerf a champion based on their performance at profissional play".
DreamLeviathan1 votesThis was about all I could find. And, as expected, it is NOT you claiming that pro play is ignored for balance decisions.
CasterGilgamesh1 votescan we at least get some explanation as to why she must be gutted when we still have champions that can just abuse 
to win the game easily with no real counterplay besides just banning or ending the game fast 
.also what is the whole point of nerfing 
when tank items already got hit tanks should late game be very good so it would make more sense to nerf its health stat but increase the % health stat
Dextix LT12 votesWe primarily balance around high tier ranked play, with some adjustments for both pro play (which tends to be very similar, but not identical, to high tier ranked play) and lower levels of play
Ahemm.
Cuix3 votesWhy did this need a whole new thread, instead of just a reply in that other one? Also, it's not "we're definitely nerfing Eve", it's "we will nerf champions that are overly strong, Eve might be one, not sure yet".
Bears Dont Care5 votesWhy did this need a whole new thread, instead of just a reply in that other one? Also, it's not "we're definitely nerfing Eve", it's "we will nerf champions that are overly strong, Eve might be one, not sure yet".
It is rare that a nerf on the PBE does not reach live, and in the case of Evelynn those nerfs ALWAYS land on live. Many individuals who play Evelynn have every reason to feel frustrated when little to none of the feedback provided is considered. When we respond regarding the high level of play Riot considers, and argue that she has seen less success than some champs such as Gragas or Rek'sai or Lee Sin, the nerf still goes through while champions who dominate season after season do not receive nearly the same treatment.
For example! Summer seasons with over 90 games Evelynn stats: win rate: 28.6% Pick/ban: 20.4%
NIdalee stats: win rate: 56.3% pick/ban: 48.4%
Gragas: win rate: 53.3% pick/ban: 88.2%
Summer playoffs with over 20 games
Gragas win rate: 66.7% pick/ban: 46%
evelynn: winrat: 16.7% pick/ban: 28.6%
nidalee: win rate: 50% pick/ban: 90.5%
In solo queue, Evelynn is right in the middle of where jungler win rates are again, in the middle. Same for the rest of her statistics, suggesting she is literally, in the average which should be considerd ideal.
Gets a nerf anyway. You really cannot blame people who main evelynn to be upset, or feel as if any discussion with Riot is pointless.
Cuix4 votesI agree that Eve doesn't need a nerf, but this thread pointlessly muddles and purposefully misconstrues the actual situation. Riot has something being tested, not absolutely decided. If they nerf Eve and give Lee more buffs, we'll know with fair certainty that it's for #LC$BigPlays, and that's not altogether unlikely, but kneejerk reactions help nobody.
Squarefighter1 votesin the case of Evelynn those nerfs ALWAYS land on live
literally removed the day after being tested
Bears Dont Care1 votesliterally removed the day after being tested
Literally occurred after several topics appeared about the issue.