Juggernauts will always be binary when their design is so restricted

Big Lincoln··4 votes·494 views

Riot defines a juggernaut as an immobile bruiser with low range, low utility (sometimes none at all), and usually high damage.

this sort of universal restriction makes the entire class inherently one-dimensional; if they are completely confined to melee range, then they need to be VERY strong in their tiny threat radius. It also makes them unreliable; they cannot reasonably close the distance vs many ranged champions, because they have a variety of self-peel and kiting tools at their disposal. So, to compensate, it is very difficult to duel them as a ranged champion when you are actually in that range (and rightly so; it's hard for me to get that close vs a competent team). This is okay for some of them to have specifically, but when it's applied to the entire class, I think it becomes a problem.

it's fairly obvious that a lot of juggernauts have been problematic for this and hard to balance. also that, bar the reworked ones and Illaoi/Yorick, a lot of juggernauts are fairly old champions. Volibear, Trundle, Garen, Mundo, Shyvana, Udyr, etc are just plainly outdated, with nothing to keep them relevant beyond having superior stats to throw at you.

Mordekaiser takes this to the extreme. With no utility to speak of, no mobility (and terrible base MS), Mordekaiser is one of if not the most feast/famine champion in the entire game. He is completely reliant on a crutch item to stay relevant, and the only way to keep him playable is to give him such extreme damage on one ability that nobody feels they were fairly outplayed when they're right clicked 3 times.

I think giving some juggernauts in the future selectively good utility and self-sufficiency in exchange for their sometimes absurd damage would be for the best of the class -- and the game.

8 Comments

PermabannedGaren1 votes

Darius Yorick

These are pretty much the only juggernauts with a successful design IMO. Maybe Trundle and Shyvana. Perhaps Volibear.

Big Lincoln1 votes

you know how I feel about Yorick already, but his kit is definitely better-made than a lot of other champions.

i think a big issue with juggs is that a lot of them are just old.

and fuck trundle

IceKingChernobog1 votes

{quoted}

Darius Yorick

These are pretty much the only juggernauts with a successful design IMO. Maybe Trundle and Shyvana. Perhaps Volibear.

Shyv and trundle? Yes. Volibear? No not at all.

Hexs Fortune1 votes

Why play those when divers have utility and high damage while being mobile and tanky?

Big Lincoln1 votes

that's my point, actually; juggernauts are largely irrelevant except for Darius, because they can't do much on their own except for splitpush

juggernauts should, selectively (probably a new champion) have better utility, especially in comparison to their much more mobile counterparts.

ChargeItDownMid1 votes

[deleted]

Big Lincoln1 votes

If you gave garen better cc and lowered his damage, then all you accomplish is making garen into a tank.

i don't think this is necessarily true.

having a single, maybe even a single-target stun or something similar would not make him any less of a bruiser, nor would it change his build. it could even just be a stronger silence like he used to have; all it really needs is to be less reliable in order to be more rewarding.

LankPants1 votes

Volibear, Trundle, Garen, Mundo,** Shyvana,** Udyr, etc are just plainly outdated

this sort of universal restriction makes the entire class inherently one-dimensional; if they are completely confined to melee range, then they need to be VERY strong in their tiny threat radius. It also makes them unreliable; they cannot reasonably close the distance vs many ranged champions, because they have a variety of self-peel and kiting tools at their disposal.

Except she doesn't. Shyvana has a good ability to close on an enemy and a strong ranged poke/mostly finisher ability. Shyvana doesn't even really fit into the class, she clearly breaks two of the rules that the rest of the class at least mostly follow. I don't really think it's accurate to lump Shyvana into the juggernaut class at all, she has more traits in common with Divers, especially tankier ones like J4 and Renekton than Juggernauts. Her recent update made this even more true.

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