The game isn't balanced around more than 2 deaths in lane

Meteor Driz·Oct 23, 2018·2 votes·1,098 views

It's balanced around rewarding 1-2 kills with enough power to have a solid advantage pushing the game forward, such as in diamond and above.

In the rest of the elos, this is a complete backfire where certain champions just EXPLODE out of control from early game snowball against people that don't know how to stay extremely safe.

Riot - balance your game around the 95% of player base, not the 4% diamond and 1% diamond+

This isn't football where rules are in place specifically for pro play and everyone is fine with just watching. Without us you have no game. Period. Ever.

22 Comments

Elite4RunnerOct 23, 20184 votes

Am I the only one that thinks it is insane to ask Riot to balance a game for respectively unskilled players?

Tr4shB4NSYST3MOct 23, 20182 votes

Not at all, unfortunately the loudest complainers are usually those who cannot adapt/improve.

And thats from a mid silver player who admits I'm still bad at the game but Im at least working to get better.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Not at all, unfortunately the loudest complainers are usually those who cannot adapt/improve.

And thats from a mid silver player who admits I'm still bad at the game but Im at least working to get better.

So if I come into one your games and feed my ass off, its fair for you? By your logic you are bad at the game for losing against 10-0 fizz unless you get 10 kills on a hyper carry and become even stronger.

Elite4RunnerOct 23, 20182 votes

Kinda, yeah.

It sucks for me, but someone on my team is significantly less skilled, to the point of inflating the recourse of the enemy team.

In a balanced system, the enemy team SHOULD be ahead.

The problem that you're describing has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with player skill. ... barring behavioral issues.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Kinda, yeah.

It sucks for me, but someone on my team is significantly less skilled, to the point of inflating the recourse of the enemy team.

In a balanced system, the enemy team SHOULD be ahead.

The problem that you're describing has nothing to do with balance, and everything to do with player skill. ... barring behavioral issues.

How are balance and player skill not connected...

By your logic lets triple the amount of gold earned from kills. That should be fair right? If you get a kill you are better so you should win.

Elite4RunnerOct 23, 20181 votes

Lol you're saying "by your logic" but you clearly don't actually understand my logic. Probably because you're not maintaining an association between my original comment and this one.

It is absurd to balance a game around unskilled players.

Yes, there is a connection between skill and balance, but if you anticipate that your players are unskilled, you can't reward players for being skilled.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Lol you're saying "by your logic" but you clearly don't actually understand my logic. Probably because you're not maintaining an association between my original comment and this one.

It is absurd to balance a game around unskilled players.

Yes, there is a connection between skill and balance, but if you anticipate that your players are unskilled, you can't reward players for being skilled.

If its so easy to just not feed and throw the game then why does it happen in every division, even in challenger and pros?

Simply saying, "be better at the game" doesn't hold up when its been like this for so long.

10 people playing people of, more or less, equal skill level and it only takes 1 to decide the game. Even if you have only a 10% chance of a player getting absolutely wrecked, then statistically nearly every game will have someone that feeds.

Add in that players get fully combo'ed from a single CC after only dying twice and it the chances of someone dying increases significantly. Not only that, every single time they die their chances of dying again go up dramatically. The only way high level players are able to keep the snowball more contained is because they know how to play with a tremendous amount of respect to CC range, vision control, coordination, and macro decisions. Even in challenger, solo que has plenty of feeders that single handedly throw the game in the first 10 minutes.

All I'm saying is that the amount of power transferred from each kill should be lowered. Read: LOWERED. Not completely removed from the game.

Give teams more of a fighting chance to pull off a come back if the other 4 players are doing well. If both teams play equally well the person with the early game kills will still win because they still have an advantage. All this will do will keep the game competitive between the two teams for longer.

Lastly, I didn't make this up on my own. This is the way league of legends used to be.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Am I the only one that thinks it is insane to ask Riot to balance a game for respectively unskilled players?

1 person having a bad game can ruin the competitiveness of the entire game in 5-10 minutes flat.

How can you not understand how easily its ruined.

Even if you are good and you go 2-0 in lane as the adc. Please tell me how much chance you think you have against 7 kill hecarim or 7 kill leblanc. I don't care how good you are, you are dead in a fraction of a second only 15-20 minutes into the game.

Elite4RunnerOct 23, 20182 votes

So ... You're asking for Riot to flatten the power scaling of champions?

A player shouldn't be rewarded more for having 7 kills instead of 2?

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

So ... You're asking for Riot to flatten the power scaling of champions?

A player shouldn't be rewarded more for having 7 kills instead of 2?

Well what if we quadrupled the amount of gold that you got for kills right now? If you get more kills you deserve to be rewarded right?

Of course they should be rewarded. Just not to the ridiculous extreme it is now.

Rock MDOct 23, 20183 votes

Wait, why should people who put time and effort into getting good be punished because we want to balance around casual players?

This is one of the worst suggestions that repeatedly pops up. If you don't put work into getting good and appreciating the finer mechanics why should Riot put work into making the game for you?

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jfBhAgRi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-10-23T20:35:43.896+0000)

Wait, why should people who put time and effort into getting good be punished because we want to balance around casual players?

This is one of the worst suggestions that repeatedly pops up. If you don't put work into getting good and appreciating the finer mechanics why should Riot put work into making the game for you?

Are you seriously asking why you should prioritize the gameplay experience of 95% over 5%? How long do you think the game will last if 95% of the population quits? How much revenue do you think that the remaining "good" 5% of players will bring in? You piss on the masses and you die, its utterly simple business.

1 unskilled player is all it takes to ruin the gaming experience for everyone else. 1 person feeding results in 20-25 more minutes more than a waste of time. It's not even neutral or boring, its straight up aggrevating because theres nothing you can do. If this problem exists in 95% of the player base then you fix it, straight up. If you don't understand why then its because you have absolutely no basic business knowledge.

If a majority of the games stop being fun due how easily 1 person can eliminate the competitiveness between the 2 teams, as it is now, then a mass majority of people are going to quit and then league will die even faster than it is now.

ModWulf HelhammerOct 23, 20183 votes

Maybe the 95% should be getting better, rather than thinking that their failings should be catered to by lowering the difficulty.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Maybe the 95% should be getting better, rather than thinking that their failings should be catered to by lowering the difficulty.

This is such absurd reasoning. Absolute troll.

Maybe 95% of the people in the world should just make more money too. And maybe they should all just liver longer. Duh... its simple. Just do it.

RavenhaleOct 23, 20181 votes

Man, if I had a nickel every time somebody told me league was dying since I joined league in 2015...

I'd have a lot of nickels.

Rock MDOct 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jfBhAgRi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-23T21:00:33.843+0000)

Are you seriously asking why you should prioritize the gameplay experience of 95% over 5%? How long do you think the game will last if 95% of the population quits? How much revenue do you think that the remaining "good" 5% of players will bring in? You piss on the masses and you die, its utterly simple business.

1 unskilled player is all it takes to ruin the gaming experience for everyone else. 1 person feeding results in 20-25 more minutes more than a waste of time. It's not even neutral or boring, its straight up aggrevating because theres nothing you can do. If this problem exists in 95% of the player base then you fix it, straight up. If you don't understand why then its because you have absolutely no basic business knowledge.

If a majority of the games stop being fun due how easily 1 person can eliminate the competitiveness between the 2 teams, as it is now, then a mass majority of people are going to quit and then league will die even faster than it is now.

? That problem exists in high elo too ya know. Quit thinking of high elo as some sort of paradise it's got all the same characteristics of low elo, only we know how to end games in a reasonable amount of time.

Also what is this piss on the masses nonsense. League of Legends is a competitive game. Why would you balance a competitive team game around the lowest common denominator? When you do that, it's no longer competitive. At that point you're balancing around a bunch of people with zero macro skills, zero teamplay skills, and only grabs approximately 30% of the cs.

And finally this, "people will leave if you don't pander to the casuals" is fucking stupid logic. If you lower the skillgap and make it easier for bad players to win, you get what happened to Fortnite. Fortnite has already peaked and they're not getting nearly the hype they got months ago because they decided, "we're going to make the game more winnable for players who can't build." They peaked here, not because the casuals got pissed off and left, but because the best players got frustrated and don't want to play anymore.

The casual players will come and go. Fortnite's casuals are on the CoD Blackout hype train now. You alienate a loyal audience and you're fucked.

RavenhaleOct 23, 20181 votes

Naw.... League is alive and well because they have no competition. Anything resembling League is often a complete ripoff, so may as well play the original. There's no point dumbing down League to keep players interested. The casuals leave, get bored of the other dime a dozen games, and eventually come back to League since it is the only one worth playing of this genre.

Fortnite is a shooter. It was destined to die as all shooters eventually do. The only reason to make a shooter easier is to extend the life of a doomed project until the sequel can be made.

Rock MDOct 24, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Naw.... League is alive and well because they have no competition. Anything resembling League is often a complete ripoff, so may as well play the original. There's no point dumbing down League to keep players interested. The casuals leave, get bored of the other dime a dozen games, and eventually come back to League since it is the only one worth playing of this genre.

Fortnite is a shooter. It was destined to die as all shooters eventually do. The only reason to make a shooter easier is to extend the life of a doomed project until the sequel can be made.

Shooter is a huge blanket term that doesn't describe genres accurately. In Fortnite's case, you're looking to say it's a battle royale, and it's been overtaken by another battle royale. CoD's standard multiplayer isn't pulling all these twitch views. Their battle royale is.

mrmeddymanOct 23, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Meteor Driz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jfBhAgRi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-23T21:00:33.843+0000)

You're speaking out of hyperbole, 95% of players will not quit because they don't have a grasp on advanced mechanics of the game. Because they are playing in their level with people who roughly are as good or bad as they are.

What you're suggesting to do is to warp the competitive nature of the game around people who aren't good at it. Most people play League to get better at it, whether they actually do or not isn't the point. That would remove most of the point of playing it.

Fact of the matter even though there are feeders, ragers, trolls and inters in League, people still climb. Because YOU as the player are the only constant. If you are actually as good as you think you area and all your teammates are "holding you back" then you wouldn't be where you are. Because bad teammates exist on the opposite team as well. Games will get thrown in your favor and in the enemies favor just as likely based on probability. What you do during the stable games over an extended period of time is what you are really worth.

League would've died a long time ago if what you're saying is true. That you keep coming back to this kind of signals you are hot off a losing streak or something. I don't play ranked but based off my MMR in normals I'm a mid silver player (never even started placements because fuck that noise). Even I can see what balancing the game around casual players would do to the competitive integrity of the game and admit that it HAS to be balanced around higher tier players.

Meteor DrizOct 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

You're speaking out of hyperbole, 95% of players will not quit because they don't have a grasp on advanced mechanics of the game. Because they are playing in their level with people who roughly are as good or bad as they are.

What you're suggesting to do is to warp the competitive nature of the game around people who aren't good at it. Most people play League to get better at it, whether they actually do or not isn't the point. That would remove most of the point of playing it.

Fact of the matter even though there are feeders, ragers, trolls and inters in League, people still climb. Because YOU as the player are the only constant. If you are actually as good as you think you area and all your teammates are "holding you back" then you wouldn't be where you are. Because bad teammates exist on the opposite team as well. Games will get thrown in your favor and in the enemies favor just as likely based on probability. What you do during the stable games over an extended period of time is what you are really worth.

League would've died a long time ago if what you're saying is true. That you keep coming back to this kind of signals you are hot off a losing streak or something. I don't play ranked but based off my MMR in normals I'm a mid silver player (never even started placements because fuck that noise). Even I can see what balancing the game around casual players would do to the competitive integrity of the game and admit that it HAS to be balanced around higher tier players.

You make good points. I can understand that position.

astralwitFeb 6, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You're speaking out of hyperbole, 95% of players will not quit because they don't have a grasp on advanced mechanics of the game. Because they are playing in their level with people who roughly are as good or bad as they are.

What you're suggesting to do is to warp the competitive nature of the game around people who aren't good at it. Most people play League to get better at it, whether they actually do or not isn't the point. That would remove most of the point of playing it.

Fact of the matter even though there are feeders, ragers, trolls and inters in League, people still climb. Because YOU as the player are the only constant. If you are actually as good as you think you area and all your teammates are "holding you back" then you wouldn't be where you are. Because bad teammates exist on the opposite team as well. Games will get thrown in your favor and in the enemies favor just as likely based on probability. What you do during the stable games over an extended period of time is what you are really worth.

League would've died a long time ago if what you're saying is true. That you keep coming back to this kind of signals you are hot off a losing streak or something. I don't play ranked but based off my MMR in normals I'm a mid silver player (never even started placements because fuck that noise). Even I can see what balancing the game around casual players would do to the competitive integrity of the game and admit that it HAS to be balanced around higher tier players.

very good points and I wish more people would appreciate this obvious truth and its inescapable logic

balance only makes sense in the context of PROPER play

you do not balance around people playing badly as a primary factor

that is the antithesis of balance and I'd have exactly ZERO respect for LOL's competitive scene if that were the case. it would be a complete joke and a terrible mess. the game would stop being worth playing or fun if you actually invested time in it. it would feel insulting to players who take it seriously and as an esport, it would be a farce. Riot of course wants the game to be "balanced" at all levels but true balance is only derived based on the top level play.

SmallCheeseCakeOct 23, 20181 votes

It's better to not balance around the majority because skill will matter less then. Just be a shit player and get the boards to agree with your balance changes boom u get a higher rank with far less effort than someone who cares.