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Riot, the Grading System for Supports is Flawed ...

CarameI Frappe··10 votes·1,565 views

http://i.imgur.com/XybcI54.png

Despite I got Mastery 6 with one of my Supports ... I was baffled by which games granted me an S+ and the other an S-. Let's take a look shall we? I'll even link the sources so you can see they're legit. (too bad it doesn't show what grades I earned, that would be nice Riot).

http://i.imgur.com/swQruI5.jpg S+ with Nami Support.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2203182243/219480029?tab=overview

http://i.imgur.com/53rtY9U.jpg S- with Nami Support.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2207349243/219480029?tab=overview

How is it that a game I go 1 / 1 / 30 grants me a S- but the game I go 6 / 4 / 28 grants me the S+?? Isn't that basically telling me in order to get a higher grade, I must purposely steal kills from my ADC or allies? Let alone, I warded more and bought more pinks in my S- game, PLUS look: I participated in 7 out of 8 of those tower takings, and I assisted in all three dragon kills. The other game I only helped take down 3 of those 6 towers and did only 2 dragon assists. Still, the game only graded me higher on my S+ because I got more kills than the average support would. That's basically awarding Supports for being selfish, and it makes me feel dirty for having my Mastery 6 token on Nami. That and because I had to craft it through the hextech system.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

24 Comments

The Whamboozler3 votes

I'm with the OP. The system is kinda bonkers on what it grades on/for.

Athenes Lulu3 votes

Kills and even creep score actually matter on supports, unfortunately. Though what you need to focus more on is good ol' kill participation. On Nami, a 65~70% kill participation is pretty much a good "magic number".

Closer range supports like Sona/Lulu are graded less harshly when it comes to kill participation and deaths, while longer range things like Janna/Nami are graded much more harsly, but has less kills/creep score as a "requirement" to get an S.

Also, consider wards bought, placed, and destroyed (I'm pretty sure that's a thing). I'm still unsure about objective participation (just hit once or even just buff a teammate while they're killing something), but that's also something to work on.

Elikain1 votes

What's taken more or less into account on specific champions solely depends on the server average. That's from players on the same champion and role, taken as average and then compared to your performance on that scale, to give you a grade. If you're playing a champion who has the least damage output (Soraka but tons of heals) then the average of damage dealt is also going to be low and healing be high compared to someone like Brand, who heals nothing but deals tons of damage.

It means that no champ is graded the same because every champion has it's own average performance sheet that is split into values that finally give you a grade, based on where you end up. Where you end up solely depends on your performance but the general average sheet is not visible to us so it's a best guess how much you need to contribute for a specific grade, outside of realizing what kind of a champion you're playing and then doubling down on wards and assists (this is what most people focus on).

Sohleks3 votes

It's way too kill biased for supports. The grading thinks 1 kill on support is worth like 4 assists at least.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

Exactly ... it feels bad man. Like, I don't want to KS but to get a better grade-

[zombie-brand-clap]

VvVVvV1 votes

No you dont have to get kills when in support role....true they help but, you can still get a S if you ward a lot, clear wards, keep deaths low, get lots of assists....help in objectives.......its a lot of stuff grading you not just your KDA.

Elikain1 votes

That's not how it works. KDA is a part of the equation sure, but a lot more stats are taken into account and it's not comparing your KDA to everyone else's. The system is comparing your performance (on a champion and role) to an average performance derived from players on the same server who played the same champion in the same role.

I'm not sure if the averages persist but if players constantly play champions in their desired roles, it means that the average performance must be dynamic in nature so it's not about just hitting the quota of specific stats with specific champions to get a high grade.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Not really, it's more on a matter of kill participation, if anything.

Sohleks2 votes

Well then the kill participation is unreasonable and kills lower it an unreasonable amount.

The only time I see supports get S's in my games is if they get a high number of support kills.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Hm, you should show me your support games if that's the case, because such gradings vary greatly depending on what you play.

For instance if you're playing mages in the place of botlane, then kills actually matter. For semi-mages and semi-supports like Lulu/Sona, 2 to 3 is good enough. For usually full supports like Nami and Janna, getting kills isn't really a requirement to get an S.

######Also your icon 10/10 ;3

Elikain2 votes

Grades are based off averages from other players with the same role, same champion and same server. Probably on a daily basis as well. Getting an S+ would mean to be in a top percentile of players who preformed excellently on a champion so Lulu might be the more frequent support than Nami and therefore Nami having a lower average or just that you've gotten lucky when the average for her was lower than usual.

##Here's my example (from my games): I've played Ashe support (yea, i intended to see if she can make it work off a annoying AP build + stuns from arrows) and i've had 4/1/13. Gotten an S+. This is probably not worthy of an S+ as a carry but the system didn't compare me to ADC Ashe roles. It compared me to Ashe supports and there's literally only a handful of people who did it, with me being in the top percentile of them.

With Lux support, it was the same thing. Not a lot of people play her in that role. And my main champion (Morgana support), the best i've gotten was an S, despite me actually performing better on her compared to Lux, on average. Simply because Morgana is a more frequent pick and therefore i have to try harder to get an S+.

The bad thing here is that you don't know how better you need to be in order to get an S+, you just know you didn't make the cut. If the update to this comes when the LCU arrives, perhaps it would be better to pull an average sheet for grades for your pick + role, to simply inform you to what you need to strive for in further games.

CarameI Frappe2 votes

That makes a lot of sense actually. Because most Supports don't try to steal kills from their ADCs, my 1 / 1 / 30 got me an S- rank. While that's still bollocks in my opinion, I was probably on the same terms as other Supports going really high on the assist meter. But because I ended up with 6 / 4 / 28 on my other game, I got more kills than the average Support so the game awarded me an S+.

Still sucks. I think personally, Riot needs to rework the system and award Supports without making them need more kills to stand out. This is also probably why I heard about Sona / Lux having an easier time getting S+ as Support because they're getting kills very often despite being under the Support role that game. Might also be why i've seen Trundle, Veigar, and some jungle based champions go as Support ... those people want the S+ ranking with their champions but decided the grading system was too harsh on their performance so Support role was the alternative for their pick.

Elikain1 votes

I don't personally think the system needs a rework. Just fleshing out a few things here and there so that our contributions (and future endeavors) are clear and that we can improve in a specific way rather than randomly aiming to play better when you don't know what needs improving.

BeeCuz1 votes

This game, and many like it, is about killing the enemy and destroying their city. That is part of the morals implicit in the game universe in that those who do not or cannot do so will score a lower grade.

http://www.hdwallpapers.org/walls/fantasy-anime-girl-with-sword-wide.jpg

CarameI Frappe1 votes

That's understandable for lore purposes, but I want to be a good Support and get my ADC fed. By stealing his / her kills, i'm crippling the carry from doing their job and honestly- if I get 6 / 0 / 0 as Nami, sure I can do a lot of damage but I won't ever come close to destroying people or winning the game like a Vayne can with 6 / 0 / 0. Especially if I don't build full AP Nami.

BeeCuz1 votes

{quoted}

By stealing his / her kills, i'm crippling the carry from doing their job

An opinion that isn't getting you a better grade. Change your opinion to change your grade, or accept your opinion and your grade.

CarameI Frappe1 votes

That's my point- it's a flawed system. Riot should grade people differently, depending on their role. If we just accept things as how they are, we wouldn't ever have a chance in getting Solo Q now, would we?

[zombie-nunu-bummed]

Irelia Bot1 votes

if you are nolt trying to kill them you are not trying to get any advantage you can.

IT is not that good supports can not get kills but that it use to be far from ideal given how their kits tended to scale.

Rossendale1 votes

6+ 28 = 34 30 + 1 = 31

I think it's less about getting kills and more about the fact that you had an overall higher kill participation in the S+ game. There's also other factors to consider like wards placed, etc. Maybe you warded more in the S+ game?

CarameI Frappe1 votes

In my S- game, I remember warding more simply because their jungler was constantly trying to go for my carry whenever we were alone / trying to clear lanes. In my S+, I did ward quite a lot but besides that you might have a point about kill participation. Still, I don't want a higher grade because I stole kills from my ADC. It'll encourage supports to KS more often which is unhealthy for the game in my opinion.

Lost R1 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/16y6KbmQ-explanation-the-formula-to-the-ranking-system

Please, for the sake of my sanity, someone read this shit.

VvVVvV1 votes

Supports getting kills in support role is not the flaw in supports.......the flaw for supports is that if you use a support...A TRUE SUPPORT that does not normally play mid like sona or thresh......if u use these champs in any other role other than support and do good you are almost gauranteed a S- or higher. Simply because the range of players you are graded against using that champ in the role u used it is far less than the range you would be compared to by using that support in the actual support role.

Angry Monster1 votes

Getting S or s+ is not about doing things to win for your team, it is about doing things for stats. They are close to the same thing but way different.

Some things i am positive the system grades on

Objective participation -towers, dragons, rift, and baron Kill participation - kills assists over team total ward count- greens placed pink ward up-time how many minutes total on the map Ward destored count- kill or assit on the kill CS totals- obvious Enemy monster totals- camps stolen champ damage- total output versus team or just raw numbers or both damage taken- over death (some weird formula) KDA- another obvious one

I am positive these are all metrics. Most of these are tracked on the web client for in game stats. Hell if i know the exact formulas and what is more important per role though. Though i have personally noticed when i do something out side of the role normally it gets a high weight. Warding as a ADC or support with lots of kills.

I have a lux main friend that gets s- on losses all the time. All he does is pink use the yellow on cool down (not nessiarly in the best spot) and play safe. Has high kill participation low kill count. stays for every dragon or tower take that he can. By this maipulates the game to thinking that he is was a key player even if it was a mediocre game by him.

So it is all stat manipulation, play for the numbers not the win.

LeaverBuster21 votes

The system is flawed.

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