@meddler: lets talk garen

Critmaster Garen··5 votes·4,516 views

considering his large spike in winrate and you already halfway stated your intentions to tune him down after the patch, i think its safe to assume that he will see some major nerfs for 6.17.

before that happens, id like to add my own 2 cents to make sure he doesnt just get thrown into the dump again.

  • imo the 1% true damage on auto attacks against the villain is not necessary. its something you can look into removing. cleaver is basically a core item on him, and most garen players strive for cdr cap. in addition to the new cooldown return mechanic to his e, i find myself auto attacking even less by lategame. so this is one part of his kit, that can go. should shave off a little power without disrupting his playstile. he still has the 1% on the spin ticks to work with.

  • i also expect you to turn down his isolation damage. if youre doing that, please consider just having the isolation damage increase with ranks on judgement to the current 33% at rank 5. im rather married to the idea of garen having a strong lategame tbh. and would rather take a hit to the duelling power in lane.

  • this is one i personally dont like, just because. but considering all the mobility items hes able to itemize into now, the new cleaver, dead mans plate, and still ghostblade, he could probably survive a slight hit to his base movement speed. its one of the highest in the game, and until the cleaver changes at the least it was neccessary for him to be able to run that fast. its less of an issue with the new items.

  • another possibility would be to use garens initial cooldown scaling on judgement. starting at 13 seconds, going back down to the current 9 seconds.

9 Comments

fasega2 votes

I think the main problem with Garen is like skarner people are use to laughing off the damage they do but with the rework they have respectable damage that people are trying to facetank. The main problem with balancing these champs is that you are balancing them around peoples lack of ability to kite and that has more to do with skill then anything else. This makes them gods against weaker players but useless against stronger players. I think riot really has to decide if champs need to be balanced around peoples inability to pull off the counterplay that is already in many champs kits.

redniwediS1 votes

I couldn't agree more on points 1 and 3, particularly 3. The only way I see new Garen being balanced by a movement speed change is by making his Q next to worthless when it comes to the speed buff, and that just makes movement speed boosting items even more of a requirement than they currently are.

Personally I think Garen's speed is mainly an issue with Dead Man's Plate, as once I get rolling around the map with one the only people who can catch me are other people who have Dead Man's Plate. I really think that item should be getting this nerf instead of Garen.

King of Hearts111 votes

the problem is the item Deadman's plate not Garen.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

I'm personally hoping they give it a little time and let things settle before they try to change him. Wukong has had that high of a win rate top lane for ages and no one talks about him so I don't think we need to gut Garen right away.

Zàck1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jbs5GIpd,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-22T18:38:10.652+0000)

I'm personally hoping they give it a little time and let things settle before they try to change him. Wukong has had that high of a win rate top lane for ages and no one talks about him so I don't think we need to gut Garen right away.

only reason that they are talking about garen is that his win rate dramatically went up

Erijian1 votes

I want them to stop nerfing him just so he can keep his stupid Villain gimmick.

I'd rather see that nerfed before they start killing everything else in his kit forcing items like Deadman's on you. As decent as Garen is now late-game; there's literally no reason to pick him still over other popular top laners and those reasons will just become more and more apparent with every nerf. Personally I'd like to see:

Silence duration to 2.0s Ticks changed to 6-9 from 5-10 Scaling Tenacity on W And most importantly, adjustments to Villain system damage if Riot thinks it's strong enough to justify all of these nerfs.

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

the 9 seconds at lvl 1 to judgement is what makes him strong. Before he had to wait a long long moment before fighting because of his 13 seconds cd judgement. I remember using Q+E on riven and then i had to back because she was taking too much hp from me. Now i can wait a bit and fight back.

tldr: i think your nerf are what garen should have and i hope riot listen to you, but let the cooldown of judgement alone, it's what retained him to be strong against clever oppenent.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

the 9 seconds at lvl 1 to judgement is what makes him strong. Before he had to wait a long long moment before fighting because of his 13 seconds cd judgement. I remember using Q+E on riven and then i had to back because she was taking too much hp from me. Now i can wait a bit and fight back.

tldr: i think your nerf are what garen should have and i hope riot listen to you, but let the cooldown of judgement alone, it's what retained him to be strong against clever oppenent.

im not saying they should do everything on the list. just look at these points step by step.

something they could easily do is start with point 1, since it sometimes adds a bit of damage to him but really isnt that important for him overall.

{quoted}

I think the main problem with Garen is like skarner people are use to laughing off the damage they do but with the rework they have respectable damage that people are trying to facetank. The main problem with balancing these champs is that you are balancing them around peoples lack of ability to kite and that has more to do with skill then anything else. This makes them gods against weaker players but useless against stronger players. I think riot really has to decide if champs need to be balanced around peoples inability to pull off the counterplay that is already in many champs kits.

honestly, i agree. my experience is that people were actually surprised that he deals a lot of damage. they were just underestimating him and try to fight him head on with assassins, or while they have the villain mark while sitting in his spin.

because it worked pre rework. basically the stupidest thing you can do, and something that should have never worked out for them in the past either.

imo there is going to be an adjustment period to make people actually aware he can fight back now, and you better not just sit in the spin and think itll be fine by lategame.

honestly, 55% winrate is pretty strong, but not that much over the top. he doesnt need to get hotfixed nerfed for that or something too big.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

bump. this feels important and i want to hear more feedback.

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