I am not sure why Shen has AP scalings.

SaltyToplaneGoat··2 votes·791 views

Like, I know the logic behind scalings on tanks in general so they can get a RoA, an abyssal, and all the other semi-defensive AP items without having to waste gold for a useless stat.

HOWEVER: Shen literally can't use most of the defensive items with AP anyways, as he A) doesn't use mana, making a item 3027 item 3040 item 3030 (he'd really like the active tho) bad on him. and B) he ALSO cannot use the special effects of item 3151 and item 3116 as he only has one spell that can apply the effects, and that is his taunt. And with these items out of the question, that's pretty much the core of most ap-offtanks gone.

At the same time he just doesn't have the relevant base-values to go for an AP build with nashors and and gunblade or something - he'd instantly die in a fight, his only benefit beign one gigantic ultimate-shield. (Seriously, I did full AP shen once. You never have to fear that your carry dies because lol see that shield?)

So maybe change the scalings into AD or HP, or maybe even scalings of resistances. I don't care, but make it scale with something that I actually want to build on my purple ninja! Either that or make his Q apply spell-effects, then I could at least buy the ones I listed under B).

15 Comments

ValyrianBlade2 votes

I think changing the scalings at all would just put him over the top. He still sees pro-play whenever he's remotely okay because he's such a safe champion that offers huge global pressure and thus map control.

Giving Shen HP or AD scaling would basically make him top-tier and in dire need of large nerfs. You could take out the scalings entirely and see what happens from there... but I don't think giving him different scalings is the right direction...

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well, nerf base values accordingly, increase the ult cooldown, shouldn't be too much of an issue in terms of balance I think. Also maybe pro-play shouldn't be the way to truly measure the game, as it makes even less than 1% of the game.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jRGg3w3c,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-11-24T21:54:13.145+0000)

Well, nerf base values accordingly, increase the ult cooldown, shouldn't be too much of an issue in terms of balance I think. Also maybe pro-play shouldn't be the way to truly measure the game, as it makes even less than 1% of the game.

It's not that the whole game needs to be balanced around pro play - just that you can't have a champion who's balanced in solo queue at gold-bronze but outright broken ban-or-lose in pro-play.

Just the same as how some champions are garbage-tier in pro play yet do fine in solo-queue (or are even seen as OP in bronze). You can't let something be broken ban-or-lose in solo queue just because it's balanced in pro play.

Basically, we're hoping that >70% of champions will be viable/strong in pro play while the other <30% are weak - while simultaneously having >70% being viable/strong in solo queue with the other <30% as weak. Then ideally no champion is in both 30%s. So this way a champion is always viable somewhere, and anything that's out of the power-level that's appropriate is too weak and not too strong (it's a lot easier to ignore a weak champion than a strong one).

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Shen does plenty of damage right now, why would they do this? It would be an unnecessary buff. He isn't supposed to be one shotting people

SaltyToplaneGoat2 votes

Most of his potential damage is % max Hp from a champion that literally builds 0 magic penetration. Get some MR and he's pretty much useless in this field.

The rest of his damage are basic attacks empowered by a titanic hydra plus a sunfire, but that's something you can get on literally every tank...

Final Spark Lux1 votes

Im not sure how to even respond to this: "but that's something you can get on literally every tank..." He's a tank, he does his job well already. no need for any changes

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Not sure, from what I see he's outclassed by most tanks when it comes to "doing the tank job". Save your squishies? Supports like Braum or Taric got your back! Crash into the enemy? Malphite, Naut and Rammus say Hi. Pure durability? Mundo and Volibear top that by far.

Literally the only thing he has that keeps him remotely relevant his is ult, and that again makes him absurdly reliant on his teammates not being garbage.

Final Spark Lux1 votes

You know listing a bunch of champions that all play differently than Shen doesn't help your case much. Much like every champion, there's always gonna be situations that are better for one champion than another. Basically you're asking to make him a Juggernaut that can build pure tank and scale to 1v5, and it isn't gonna happen

Dîo Brando1 votes

Just a notice that Shen has been rated as the worst top laner out of 54 of the most played top laners for the past 5+ patches. He's even lower than Aatrox, Urgot,and Karthus...

item 3070 Shen

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kyoki Shinkuro,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jRGg3w3c,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-24T21:52:13.380+0000)

Most of his potential damage is % max Hp from a champion that literally builds 0 magic penetration. Get some MR and he's pretty much useless in this field.

The rest of his damage are basic attacks empowered by a titanic hydra plus a sunfire, but that's something you can get on literally every tank...

Eh... no magic pen doesn't mean useless. Especially since it's up so often.

LostFr0st1 votes

Wasn't item 3091 a fun item on him once upon a time?

CrimsonCobra31 votes

I would love it if Shen were AD scaling. But I think they made him AP so that you wouldn't build him offensively, and in order to fit his kind-of mystical theme. Not that you every make use of those items though. So what does it matter?

ZephyrDrake1 votes

Shen's job is to be a tank and disrupt enemies... he does not need additional damage to do that

OurLestrade1 votes

I'm a Shen fanboy and even I think that's a bit goofy. It's there so if you sprinkle in a bit of AP it has impact, but beyond that his Q is essentially a constant BOTRK. Slap on an actual BOTRK and he does consistent DPS.

khorney1 votes

tech you still can build him with archangel staff

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