Ahri has almost a 54% winrate with a 20% play rate.

1 800 GGTOOEZ·Mar 26, 2017·64 votes·4,744 views

Tell me more about how she's oh so perfectly balanced. Either she's the easiest champion in the game, or she's too strong.

199 Comments

Meep ManMar 26, 201725 votes

Ahri has the same stats 5 months ago Boards: silent Ahri's stats are suddenly observed Boards: AAAAAAAAAAAAH FAVORITISM!

Death by GlamourMar 26, 20177 votes

She's had similar stats for 2 seasons...

THE RlVER KlNGMar 26, 201744 votes

People actually have complained about them before you just don't notice because Ahri apologists blame it on her generalist nature and safety WHICH IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE

Ahri has the best of a mage and an assassin without the signature weaknesses of either

ThefrostyvikingMar 26, 20178 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jQYRGhnv,comment-id=00040001,timestamp=2017-03-26T21:34:13.060+0000)

People actually have complained about them before you just don't notice because Ahri apologists blame it on her generalist nature and safety WHICH IS EXACTLY THE PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE

Ahri has the best of a mage and an assassin without the signature weaknesses of either

Then what is the best of a mage and assassin in your definition?

Becuase

Burst? She doesn't actually kill someone equal to her from full health fast at all. Her combo time is on the middle/lower end among all mages and definitely close to the bottom for the assassins.

DPS? second verse same as the first. Her only shining virtue her is her Q which deals a little true damage on the way back which mainly works well against tanks but it's not a whole lot so it's not broken.

Sustain? Actually quite good in the mid/lategame when she gets some AP. But it's only a small helper in lane to assist with potions.

Range? Needs to get in quite close to actually kill someone who isn't downright stupid. And her Q is fairly slow while her E is very slow.

Then what do i view as powerful as a Ahri player and well.....a damm lot of other mages and ADCs and even some supports?

Her mobility and short cooldown on her ultimate.

In her mini rework way back riot decided to remove a lot of damage and sustain and quite some range because she dealt too much damage, was too safe and everyone else also got nerfed around that time too.

So they gave her Q a speedbuff when thrown and reduced ultimate cooldown, which created a new set of issues.

The easy one is her ultimate cooldown, it's her tool for both safety and killing things. 3 short dashes damage that deal a some damage and they are somewhat slow. In theory this ability is ability is actually fine but what is not is the cooldown with some CDR. Once she buys a morello and gains some lvls she is suddenly able to dash in and out everywhere with very little time between each which makes her both safe to play and hard to deal with. Raising the cooldown would open her up to give her real windows of weakness and force us players to think about how we want to use it and play in the downtime, similar to Zed in a sense.

Q is harder though, because the mobility added was meant as a compensation for losing damage and range however a thought would be to lower the gained mobility if she doesn't hit a champion and raise it a little if she does. This rewards the opponent for dodging it and Ahri if she hits it which seems fine in my mind.

THE RlVER KlNGMar 26, 201722 votes

https://euw.op.gg/summoner/userName=Thefrostyviking

Ahri main. I literally said someone like you would come along and make excuses for how disgusting Ahri's numbers are, and you proved me right.

When you said Ahri has poor burst, range, and sustain when she is objectively strong in all almost made me stop reading.

Brain Errör 404Mar 27, 20179 votes

Ahri's numbers are far from the problem. People really need to stop. She doesn't need a NUMBERS nerf.

RavenMagusMar 27, 20172 votes

So what, you'd prefer someone come along who doesn't play the champion at all and say "yeah screw her she needs a nerf"? What kind of argument does that prove?

SkorchMar 27, 20176 votes

No offense but i go to mains for balancing before ANY other player. Just in this example, "Ahri is like this" "Not really more like...Long explanation..." "Ahri main, proof, argument invalid."

Sure mains defend their champ enough, but at the same times most mains give a detailed reasoning on where they are strong because they know more than you. Honestly ive played ahri not too much, not too good at her, but her range isnt impressive and her sustain early especially is, while helpful, not "objectively strong" at all. Comparatively its weak.

THE RlVER KlNGMar 27, 20175 votes

No offense but so do I, but only when they can acknowledge that their main is overperforming. Look at Cancerous Lulu's posts. He/she acknowledges that Lulu is too strong right now and not fun to play against.

I can't think of a single Ahri player on the boards who thinks that way. They complain that other champions have higher statistics (creating a straw man that does not add to the discussion) or say that the only reason Ahri is too strong is because of x reason - precisely, she is too strong. It's a blatant case of Sona Syndrome that plagues Jhin and Janna players too. I've played Ahri. She isn't difficult in the slightest and has a safe and straightforward kit that grants an inordnate amount of agency and lane control for an assassin. She has one of the best CCs in the game as well as 3 dashes on a low cooldown for an ultimate.

She has consistently held 52%+ winrate and 15%+ pickrate practically since release and is arguably even stronger post-DFT. Cut the bullshit, she is too strong and deserves a solid nerf.

SkorchMar 27, 20174 votes

My problem as that sounds more like "I like mains that agree with me" There are plenty of people who say champs are SLIGHTLY overperforming are their opinions not valid?

And what bugs me is the inconsistancy of appearance of Ahri complaints, like yeah she has been strong for a long time, but how come we only hear about it every few months.

Also personally i think while Ahri is kind of bullshit, a better idea would to nerf AP items over Ahri, still cutting her winrate, while also cutting other champs winrates too, because there are A LOT of strong mages right now that get glossed over. I made a post about this but it got guttered. I mean YEAH ahri is strong but so is TECHNICALLY Ziggs, Anivia, some mage supports. Wouldnt cutting items help that.

Main offenders in my opinion are item 3165 item 3027 item 3001 MAYBE item 3152 or item 3151 Those items are just SO strong. If not them the CDR in general is out of hand.

THE RlVER KlNGMar 27, 20174 votes

No, it sounds like champion communities could grow some balls and accept that some champions are just broken and have been for a long time now. If Tahm Kench had Ahri's numbers (he never has and never will) then I would call him broken and accept nerfs. But if it's Ahri, if it's Jhin, if it's Sona, if it's Vi, then it's okay for them to be like that.

btw Ahri only uses like 2 of those items and protobelt isn't even that good at all

You are sounding ridiculous. Why is it that some champions need to be nerfed to the ground but others get an army of board members and redditors defend them? Oh, yeah, her statistics are objectively out of line and have been for a while now but that's just because AP items are overtuned (they're not, they're weaker than they've been in a while). 'Ahri isn't OP because people only complain about her every couple of months' Are you even listening to yourself?

SkorchMar 27, 20173 votes

By god you are close minded. Im not talking about "Why nerf ahri when items are OP." or "Ahri isnt OP" I said multiple times that she isnt the ONLY one.

Mid laners sitting at 52% (The hated number) or higher winrate: Fiddlesticks Zilean Swain Talon Taliyah Fizz TwistedFate Ahri Anivia AurelionSol Annie Katarina 1 AD

How about Mainly AP supports: Fiddlesticks 52% 51.5%

(according to OP.GG) NUMBER 1 ADC STILL Ziggs With other websites showing between 52% and 54% winrates

Jungle: Ivern number 1 jungler (although doesnt build TOO much ap) and Aurelion Sol recently had a 55% winrate in the jungle for SOME reason

Top: Well mainly just teemo sitting on a 54% winrate but he doesnt build those items so...

THE POINT STANDS. Ahri isnt the only "strong" champion right now, get your head out of the biasclouds and look for actual solutions.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 27, 20178 votes

You do realise swain has a 1% pickrate in mid? Are u fucking kidding me? Trying to compare ACTUAL mains of a champ managing a good winrate in a lane where they will constantly face counter champs like ahri, ori,syndra with ahri who has 15% playrate+ and a more than high winrate hovering between 52-55% for SEASONS? Yeah case is clear about kata, look at her banrate. She is bullshit. Ziggs suffers from Ahri syndrome so hard that not too long ago when he became popular on botlane board tards even suggested BUFFING Ziggs midlane. Tali,Aurelion are not comparable in skill and playrate. Anivia is bullshit as ever. Talon as well. Annie overall is only really good at lower levels unlike Ahri who sees play up to challenger. Don't know why you put ivern into this? Is he a midlaner? Or a mage/assassin?

Obviously you try to defend ahri by any mains no matter how bullshit you sound. You are objectively the only biased one here and believe me i don't play any of the champs you listed except swain and i hate all of them in midlane but i can see the difference between high skill champs with low pickrates and the abomination that ahri is.

SkorchMar 27, 20172 votes

Hmm could it be the average boards player looks at "strong winrate + pickrate = broken, lets hone in 100% on that champion."

NO FUCKING SHIT AHRI IS STRONG YOU ROCKHEADED APE. However SINCE the average positive winrate in midlane and other lanes, IS AP. Don't you think zeroing in a champion, whos the ONLY argument for being OP is pickrate, when there are other equally bad alternatives. PLAYRATE DOESNT DEFINE A CHAMP. There are WAY too many variable that determine pickrate, many out of game.

Not only that however you scoff at pickrates because you are so blinded and closeminded by metasheeps that you fail to realize the average champion pickrate is between 3-1%

SO WITH SOME OBVIOUS EXCEPTIONS PICKRATE DOESNT HAVE MUCH OF A FACTOR NOW DOES IT?

You claim that anyone who defends ahri is a main of her, and only mains should have a large winrate on her. BUT IF THAT MANY PEOPLE ARE MAINS OF HER THAT WOULD EXPLAIN THE WINRATE AND PICKRATE NOW WOULDNT IT?

MAYBE the average player knows how to ACTUALLY look at things from multiple angles. And not equate obvious strength to peripheral strength?

I ACKNOWLEDGE i lost my cool by i have been dealing with CLOSE MINDED, IGNORANT APES for the last few hours. So my acceptance of BULLSHIT BASELESS CONJECTURE is wearing thin.

DessemMar 27, 20174 votes

Calling people apes doesn't really make your argument palatable.

At the risk of being called an ape as well, I point out that pickrates and winrates do matter. It's why Ivern is allowed a 56% winrate: his pickrate is only 7%. Riot directly stated they did not want to nerf him because of his pickrate.

Champ.gg lists Ahri as 38/43 as far as experienced players goes. This indicates Ahri players, on average, face people who are more experienced on their respextive champions more often than not.

In spite of this mastery difference, Ahri has a favourable game 54% of the time, in spite of the fact she is a common mid laner and people should thus know how to deal with her (or are at least well-aware of her kit).

High pickrate plus high winrate can highlight issues with a champion because it means that a large number of relatively unskilled Ahri players are still more successful on her than the smaller number of diehard Swain mains.

Comparitively, Orianna is 39/43 of average experience, has a 15% winrate but "only" a 51% winrate.

Nerfing items would nerf Orianna as well.

If Ahri is "not a problem" , one would've expected her play and winrates to show similar numbers to Orianna. Since there is a large gap between the performances of these two (and Ahri as a skillshot champ is definitely not easy), it may be indication of issues with one of them.

lolcommunity1Mar 27, 20175 votes

{quoted}

No offense but i go to mains for balancing before ANY other player. Just in this example, "Ahri is like this" "Not really more like...Long explanation..." "Ahri main, proof, argument invalid."

Sure mains defend their champ enough, but at the same times most mains give a detailed reasoning on where they are strong because they know more than you. Honestly ive played ahri not too much, not too good at her, but her range isnt impressive and her sustain early especially is, while helpful, not "objectively strong" at all. Comparatively its weak.

Someone actually gets it. Did the thought not cross a lot of peoples minds that mains are actually called "Mains". Not just some coincidence that there could actually be a lot of good Ahri mains that just dumpsters bad players because they had more experience with the champion?

It's the same thing when people complain about Lee Sin. Too many salty whiners just because there is a HELL of a lot of Lee Sin mains. The champion is just ridiculously popular because of the way his kit works. I still would rather face 100 Lee Sins then even 1 Hecraim. I can deal with Lee Sin and I don't play him.

It's a good thing that the circle jerk of Ahri being too strong is being ignored. Just because you don't play the champion and don't know how to play against her doesn't mean she should be nerfed if she was not changed for this long. I don't care how much you cry about it by giving a huge laundry list of strengths, and implying she has no weaknesses. Either learn how to adapt, ban her, or start getting on to riot of buffing other mid lane champions.

The nerf to Leblanc and Orianna rising higher in popularity/winrate is of the major reasons for Ahri's popularity spike.

Who is to say though that boards will do what they do best. When Riot does decide to bring power back to champions like Azir, Kassadin, or whoever, they will cry bloody murder for nerfs.

NvestmentPlankerMar 27, 20175 votes

lol. popularity spike yes. but when her pickrate rises dramatically and her winrate doesn't suffer from it, that's fucking bullshit amigo. her winrate has been 52% or higher since November of 2015. that's retarded. she absolutely needs a nerf.

woodvsmurphMar 27, 20173 votes

you are replying based on you FEELINGS. In truth, Ahri's burst is lower than many other burst mids if you look at NUMBERS. And to come close to matching them, she needs to land SKILLSHOTS. She is mid ranged like - leaving her vulnerable to poke and ganks more than long range casters. Her passive sustain might as well not exist it takes so many spellcasts to proc and heals for so little. People do not pay attention to FEELINGS or balance around them; they balance around NUMBERS and DATA. What ahri is, is basically a Camille of the mid lane - not quite as assassin as other assassin/burst champs; not quite as mage as other mages. When she's behind, she probably just dies because she has to get close to do any damage. When she's ahead by a LARGE amount, she's unstoppable. When she's even or slightly ahead, she's solid. I don't main ahri, I don't have ahri main friends, etc. Unbiased analysis.

Does she escape ganks more easily than most other mids after she has ult and is therefore harder to punish? Yes. But you have just made her blow her ult defensively. This means she has 0 kill pressure until it is back up - unless you play really poorly against her. So you play around making her ult defensively and exploit her when it is down - just like blowing flash on other mids.

JoxcabMar 26, 20178 votes

What a joke.

Golden Tager XMar 26, 20174 votes

People have been pointing this out for over a year now, idk where you have been.

Fur Fox SakeMar 27, 201721 votes

As someone who's mained Ahri since season 3 I can definitely say that she is TOO safe. Her damage, however, is actually not that great. Most other mid laners actually outbeat her in damage and have higher AP ratios. Her old style used to be heavily based on doing damage IF you landed charm, which in my opinion was the best way to differentiate between a good and bad Ahri. The main issue with her now though is honestly the unnecessary Q movement speed buff which makes her too safe. I thought her kiss of death playstyle was healthy for her. Her play rate right now is due to Pro Play and the nerfing of LeBlanc or only other champs that played well against her etc..

KeevalroyMar 27, 201710 votes

[{quoted}](name=Fur Fox Sake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jQYRGhnv,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2017-03-27T01:21:26.004+0000)

As someone who's mained Ahri since season 3 I can definitely say that she is TOO safe. Her damage, however, is actually not that great. Most other mid laners actually outbeat her in damage and have higher AP ratios. Her old style used to be heavily based on doing damage IF you landed charm, which in my opinion was the best way to differentiate between a good and bad Ahri. The main issue with her now though is honestly the unnecessary Q movement speed buff which makes her too safe. I thought her kiss of death playstyle was healthy for her. Her play rate right know is due to Pro Play and the nerfing of LeBlanc or only other champs that played well against her etc..

Thank you.

BisaknospMar 27, 20172 votes

if they remove the ms speed they have to give her a bit more damage or at least revert the range changes on w and r

GayFluffyUnicornMar 27, 20175 votes

Eh no? How about you use the bullshit mobility already given to you? Then you actually need to trade carefully when the enemy is out of position and not just throw your Q, hit and run away with no counterreaction possible. She doesn't need any compensation but a straight nerf.

WimbledofyMar 27, 20174 votes

if ahri is in range to run up and q, then 90% of other mages are also in range for their ability before ahri can get her q off. And most mages will have more damage on their long ranged ability than ahri's q.

Gregor GysiMar 27, 20173 votes

Reasonable assessment in my opinion.

DunkinNoobsMar 26, 201710 votes

People don't complain when Janna has these exact same stats.

BisaknospMar 27, 20173 votes

OMG BOARDS FAVORITISM

ThilmerMar 27, 20172 votes

{quoted}

People don't complain when Janna has these exact same stats.

But Sona gets nerfed with lower stats...

Miku Hime samaMar 27, 20172 votes

Sona gets nerfed just for being Sona. She's Meddler's personal punching bag.

FTWolfMar 26, 20178 votes

Cooldown on w up by .00025 seconds

LadyRenlyMar 26, 20178 votes

if shes sooo good by maintaining a high winrate and playrate for like, ever, why the fuck are people complaining now? lmao

LatetotheRaceMar 26, 201711 votes

I complained about 3 months ago, but nah. The boards clearly weren't on the wagon yet.

KeevalroyMar 27, 20174 votes

In my defense, I've been complaining for over two years

LuggMar 26, 20175 votes

More proof of Riot favoritism over actual balance.

KeevalroyMar 27, 20174 votes

I see this more as their egos than favoritism. It's been over two years since she was reworked, and since then, she's maintained a high pick and high win rate, and they refuse to admit that the rework caused it, and if they won't revert the 5.2 changes, getting rid of the Q speed would be the next best thing. But again, they don't want to admit it since flashy plays for the spectator event are going to be prioritized for the foreseeable future, not health and balance of the game for players.

ThilmerMar 27, 20174 votes

We are going to have problems here, because I don't even think Ahri is a strong champion rigth now, but the numbers are something to worry about. I'm afraid if she stays that popular, she will suffer a random rain of nerfs.

And is strange how she was an AP assasin, then a mage, and I don't even know what is she now.

NineTailedMysticMar 27, 20173 votes

If someone doesn't think she needs a nerf in some capacity (that hits the right thing(s)), they're wrong. Like jfc her kit design is overall fine, she's just too safe between her Q MS and the availability of her R. Nerf one or both and she'll probably be fine.

ArakadiaMar 27, 20171 votes

I feel like if they nerf her they'll buff her later and than she'll be OP and need further nerfs. Just like Karma's shield buff got her nerfed.

NineTailedMysticMar 27, 20173 votes

If they legit removed Q MS and put E amp back she'd be worse than pre 5.2 because she ate nerfs for her 5.2 stuff. And she was considered balanced back then.

AngelNipataMar 27, 20173 votes

But doesn't Ahri always have a high play rate?

I'm not trying to invalidate your argument, but Ahri is one of the most popular mid laners and has been for a fairly long time. I will admit she bounces between an A and S tier champion, but her play rate is always high because of her versatility and relative resistance to meta changes. The reason she's currently being abused is because her counters aren't really in a very good spot and the champions she counters are. I will admit that 20% is really high, but there haven't been any recent changes to the champion so it's just a result of the meta. I feel that nerfing her isn't the proper solution and that it would be a better choice to buff her counters.

Big LincolnMar 26, 20172 votes

she's just meta right now, man

FTWolfMar 26, 201723 votes

Ah yes that explains her 52% winrate with a 15% playrate in every other meta

Big LincolnMar 26, 20173 votes

xd you sound like an ASSASSIN MAIN DUDE

i have no reason to suspect that but i'm going to say it anyway as if it makes my non-argument seem legitimate

DracocrashMar 26, 201715 votes

his argument is perfectly valid.

You claim shes just meta right now. But the fact is she has had insane stats for patches and she will probably for patches to come. you need to counter that argument properly.

oh my god, were you being sarcastic?

ThefrostyvikingMar 26, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Best Wizfact EUW,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jQYRGhnv,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-26T19:56:08.784+0000)

his argument is perfectly valid.

You claim shes just meta right now. But the fact is she has had insane stats for patches and she will probably for patches to come. you need to counter that argument properly.

She was never played in pro games before though and for several reasons, it's only now after pretty much the entire competition got nerfed that she got pushed up there.

Not saying that she doesn't have issues though, in my view it's mainly her ultimate cooldown that is a bit too short which makes it hard to punish her properly. This makes her lovable for soloq which loves forgiving champs that work.

FTWolfMar 26, 20177 votes

Funny how her winrate has been 52%+ for more than lets say a good 7 patches at the very least hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm