Remember how Riot likes to nerf champions who have very uninteractive laning phases?

Akali is SO HOT·Jul 18, 2016·15 votes·1,809 views

How about we do that to Viktor. After 1 back all he has to do is press E to instantly clear a wave lol. All kill pressure you have on him is lost if he just sits in lane clearing waves the whole time and pushing you to your turret. If you are able to somehow push back all he has to do is press E again and push it right back to you. If you're melee then all he has to do is use his outplay mini orianna ult to stop you from doing anything lol. If you're gonna let him keep his retarded waveclear at least make it cost some mana so he can't do it for all eternity.

39 Comments

GoosetardJul 18, 201615 votes

The ridiculous part is that they DID that, they DID nerf his waveclear. Then they gave it back to him with a package of other changes that viktor mains didn't like.

[zombie-brand-mindblown]

XeruonJul 18, 20161 votes

I dunno if this is 100% true or not, but everytime Riot reworks a champion, they either end up reverting nerfs that were supposed to keep them in check, or end up giving them so much power to other parts of their kits that the previous nerfs become irrelevant.

Fondling GemsJul 18, 20165 votes

He just got a nerf directed at that.

Akali is SO HOTJul 18, 20165 votes

Anyone with half a brain can get 1250 gold before their first back especially when you're playing a champion with braindead waveclear that is also a massive early game bully. I play a champion with one of the worse pre 6s in the game and I can still manage to get over 1k gold for my first back.

Fondling GemsJul 18, 20161 votes

Yes but it means he can't buy boots which means that pushing out waves doesn't let him roam as much. Also keep in mind you are playing one of the few champs that can't force him to back before 1250 gold. That is just part of Akali, you never will be able to stop ranged champs from getting their initial items. It is a sacrifice you choose to make.

Akali is SO HOTJul 18, 20163 votes

I wasn't talking about Akali vs Viktor specifically. I'm talking about the fact that even playing as a champion that can get easily bullied in most matchups I'm still able to get 1k+ gold for my first back so adding an extra 250 gold to his upgrade won't do anything because he can still easily obtain it especially as an early game bully that is easy to farm with. Sure it makes it so he has less money to spend on other items but that doesn't change the fact that he makes it almost impossible to interact with him after his first back.

I don't care if he can roam or not I just want to be able to actually interact with him instead of being pushed to my turret for the entirety of the laning phase without getting a chance to retaliate. It's just dumb and not fun to play against.

VerdadeJul 18, 20161 votes

You can't interact with VK after level 3, and yet he's not broken.

DynikusJul 18, 20165 votes

I take it you don't play viktor? his E costs a pretty decent chunk of mana early on (70 at rank 1, and being it's typically maxed first, it'll be around 90 mana before first back), and certainly isn't spammable with the mana cost and 12 second cd. If he's pushing you into turret, he's overextended and shouldn't be that hard to gank early on.

Irelia BotJul 18, 20168 votes

{quoted}

I take it you don't play viktor? his E costs a pretty decent chunk of mana early on (70 at rank 1, and being it's typically maxed first, it'll be around 90 mana before first back), and certainly isn't spammable with the mana cost and 12 second cd. If he's pushing you into turret, he's overextended and shouldn't be that hard to gank early on.

"costs a lot of mana" Kids these days don't know what mana costs actually are.

1796Jul 18, 20161 votes

Lol the guy didnt even both reading, AFTER one back either. which is when he becomes broken as fuck.

DynikusJul 18, 20167 votes

70/80/90/100/110 mana is a fairly costly skill when your starting pool is only 334. If you think his E is actually spammable during the laning phase, be my guest and give it a go in a game and let me know how it works out.

Votable JesterJul 18, 20163 votes

Compare that to Morgana (W) and Lux (E) which are their waveclear abilities. Also note that Morgana's W doesn't instaclear, and Lux's E isn't enough to one-shot the wave (even with passive), making it also take longer than Viktor's E.

Voluug13Jul 18, 20161 votes

Worth noting Morgana's also gives her sustain and Lux's leaves debuffed minions that are easy to last hit and works way better as poke.

NineTailedMysticJan 11, 20171 votes

Viktor also has a personal item that gives Mana per level.

Akali is SO HOTJul 18, 20165 votes

A lot of mages take multiple spells to clear a wave while Viktor takes only 1.

Taking level 9 max rank ability for a couple mages:

Brand: 180 mana Orianna: 130 mana Xerath: 200 mana Ziggs: 150 mana Viktor: 110 mana

The only person that comes even close to Viktor is Ori but she still has to auto attack minions before she can clear the wave. All of the other champions listed take a lot more mana to clear a wave than Viktor and require two spells to do so. Even then Viktor still has waveclear on par and even better compared to champions that take two abilities to do it.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jM9wAHFl,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-07-18T08:03:31.536+0000)

A lot of mages take multiple spells to clear a wave while Viktor takes only 1.

Taking level 9 max rank ability for a couple mages:

Brand: 180 mana Orianna: 130 mana Xerath: 200 mana Ziggs: 150 mana Viktor: 110 mana

The only person that comes even close to Viktor is Ori but she still has to auto attack minions before she can clear the wave. All of the other champions listed take a lot more mana to clear a wave than Viktor and require two spells to do so. Even then Viktor still has waveclear on par and even better compared to champions that take two abilities to do it.

Anivia?

Akali is SO HOTJul 18, 20161 votes

Assuming she keeps her ult on for at least 2 seconds it would be 235 mana with ult and max rank q

blfUvZ8YbuJul 18, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jM9wAHFl,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2016-07-18T08:10:23.643+0000)

Assuming she keeps her ult on for at least 2 seconds it would be 235 mana with ult and max rank q

I don't know but I have same problems with Anivia.

SpoofghoulJul 18, 20161 votes

everything is true except for the over extended part

also by the time the nest minion wave arrives his e got of cd twice already

he does go oom eventually but his hexcore upgrade gives him ap and mana too so its gonna take a while anyway even tho his costs are high so is his manapool

TheOvermindJul 18, 20163 votes

Honestly right after azir viktor is the 2nd most overloaded mage in the game: with long range poke, probably best waveclear in the game, amazing Aoe and zoning in fights, interrupt, amazing slows on spamable qs with rylais, movespeed on q, shield on q... It's no coincidence azir and viktor are like top tier picks in the lcs.

KING 5HARKJul 18, 201611 votes

amazing slows on spamable qs with rylais

He has a slow on rylais? Oh boy, no other mage has that...

Voluug13Jul 18, 20162 votes

To be fair few midlane mages get a targeted low cooldown spell that also speeds you up and give you a shield.

KING 5HARKJul 18, 20163 votes

Few Midlaners also get a low cooldown spell that stacks AP if it hits a champion. Veigar must be broken...

Voluug13Jul 18, 20161 votes

We are talking about Rylai interaction here, not who has the best basic ability of midlane.

I hardly note anything relevant on your statement other that obvious misdirection.

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20162 votes

Viktor suffers from the same problems as Azir, Lee and Rekt'sai. They all scale really hard with skill and team co-ordination. That makes balancing him very difficult, because Riot are torn between balancing him for LCS and everybody else. I suspect they will nerf him because of his dominance in LCS. Personally, I'd go for his burst damage and consistency rather than his wave clear.

Zero Skill TankJul 18, 20162 votes

Viktor's shitty laning pattern is a problem in all elos.

VerdadeJul 18, 20161 votes

meanwhile soraka, where you can't distinguish between evemy soraka playing and being afk...

Viktor's waveclear is rather weak without upgraded hexcore, and he uses his main damaging ability to clear.

Meanwhile, VK doubletaps W and he still has 3 extremely powerful long-range abilities, and he's still balanced

manbearswineJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

meanwhile soraka

Where did the soraka hate go really? Is everyone just used to it so it's not worth mentioning as she is already known to be cancer, or is it just hidden behind one of the support circlejerks these boards have?

I still don't know why she's even allowed to exist...

manbearswineJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Viktor suffers from the same problems as Azir, Lee and Rekt'sai. They all scale really hard with skill and team co-ordination.

They don't, maybe rek'sai does, not sure. Azir,Viktor and lee just scale with skill, they are as stupid in a solo environment as they are in a 5 man, if you can't see that then improve your own game before spewing this nonsense, the problem are the players you are facing, not their lack of coordination with their teams.

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20161 votes

You might be mistaking my comment as being on the current state, which it is not, it's about those champs (amongst others) in general. In the current state, Azir and Viktor aren't the best in soloQ, but they're dominant in pro play (still). Similarly Rek'sai. Lee sin doesn't see much pro play atm and he is doing terribly in soloQ. The win rates of those I listed,

Azir -41% Lee -47% Rek -49% Vikt -52%

None are stupid in a solo environment right now. Viktor is the only one above 50% and Azir has one of the lowest in the game.

manbearswineJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You might be mistaking my comment as being on the current state, which it is not, it's about those champs (amongst others) in general. In the current state, Azir and Viktor aren't the best in soloQ, but they're dominant in pro play (still). Similarly Rek'sai. Lee sin doesn't see much pro play atm and he is doing terribly in soloQ. The win rates of those I listed,

Azir -41% Lee -47% Rek -49% Vikt -52%

None are stupid in a solo environment right now. Viktor is the only one above 50% and Azir has one of the lowest in the game.

You might be mistaking me for a winratetard, which I'm not, obsession with winrates is for the lower elos, when you go higher you realize there's more to this game than those winrates, but it's a common mistake for people who are new/bad to/at this game, as they don't know any better, some champions are better in competitive, azir/lee/viktor are not these champions, they are just better with skill.

blfUvZ8YbuJul 18, 20161 votes

Viktor's waveclear was continuous good.

Guy Fox TeemoJul 18, 20161 votes

I mean it costs 120 mana :l

Sona x RubickJul 18, 20161 votes

cho gat

ScramrailJul 18, 20161 votes

Id happily exchange his ability to full clear waves so early to get back his ability to instantly nuke squishies with his E/ult, like he used to be able to. It was always fun utterly annihilating the enemy back line with 2-3 spells like in the good old days. At least now his ability to dumpster people is delayed and has counter play(early/mid, anyway), such that in order to really reach his full potential he needs a good team to work with.

The reason he is so popular in the LCS is more because of his ridiculous damage potential more than his wave clear. Viktor almost always has the most damage to champions by a large margin in games that he's in, as far as ive seen anyway.

But Viktor has always has insane wave clear for as long as I can remember, and even when they nerfed his E damage prior to the mid season mage update, he was still eventually able to full clear a wave with one E, it just took him slightly longer to do it. Again though, this was when all of his damage was up front and he could literally obliterate a squishy target in the blink of an eye.

It is annoying, sure, but I don't think its all that overpowered, and his early game is actually fairly weak compared to some other mid lane mages at the moment.

Cant we all just get along and focus on hating that avian hellspawn Azir instead? [slayer-jinx-wink]

WheatloafJul 18, 20161 votes

They increased the cost of his first upgrade because of this (so that he has to stay in lane without it longer in order to buy it). They might need to do more, though.

XeruonJul 18, 20161 votes

Viktor is currently the Boards' favorite pity champion, alongside Eve and Morde. Any threads made against him will be only met with downvotes, even though a lot of high-elo players are agreeing that Viktor is top-tier right now.

Vistha KaiJul 19, 20161 votes

If he tries to poke you, he can't wave clear, if he wave clears he has no damage left for poking you.

Plus even with a maxed Death Ray with Aftershock upgrade isn't able to OHK minion wave, unless he got an actual AP item along with the Hexcore upgrade.

Not to mention he can only use maxed Death Ray about 5 times max in laning phase.

But you judging from your name, I'm not expecting much.