Can we put more power in Naut's W?

Big Lincoln··54 votes·2,045 views

I think it's much more reasonable as his main damage spell than his E.

E max nautilus made his jungling a decent amount worse but made him incredibly obnoxious to deal with in top/mid. when he's good he hardly does anything but spam E, deal damage to you, and shove the wave. It's very non-interactive in lane which is what I think makes him a problem.

put some power back in his W. there's clear counterplay of breaking the shield to cut his DPS and it makes his jungling MUCH more mana-efficient, whereas now after being rightfully nerfed, he OOMs on his first clear and can barely clear at all without a blue buff. If needed, lower the duration on his W so that kiting him out while his damage boost is active is actually possible, with the compensation of a lower cooldown so that he can still cycle through his shields while doing jungle clears/laning. If the uptime is the same then he won't feel weaker, but his strong shield buff won't feel so obnoxious if you have clearer windows where you can take it down and fight him.

45 Comments

TheSingularity16 votes

This a thousand times over.

Naut can't clear, naut can't sustain and he has the lowest ms in the game. I love naut and this is the only season where jungling with him is a handicap.

The jungle is nauts home. He was never meant for top lane, it was an unfortunate side effect of riots stupid power shift from his w to e.

Return this titan to the depths, so he can drag his victims down with him!

EDIT:

Just a few suggestions from an older thread Since his hook is tied in to his armour, let that stat add damage to his passive. Dmg= base damage per level+ percentage of BONUS armour. Adjust depth charges visual appearance to better match its hit box.

Devilreaper XIII3 votes

and leave his E the same o.O ? no buff for that monster please :/

Big Lincoln23 votes

He has a 45% winrate

At this point there is absolutely 0 compensation nerf needed, he just needs flat buffs.

And E devours his mana bar as it is, lowering mana costs for his W and Q would be reasonable buffs too

Barcid5 votes

Not to mention the power was shifted from his W to begin with as a way to give him some actual teamfight strength. Before he was shut down completely by a couple of ADC hits shattering his shield and leaving him nothing but a kind of annoying wall that posed no real threat, but E isn't something that's shut down.

Now that he has considerably more threats to deal with as a hero, plugging some of that old power back into his W isn't going to harm anyone and will help the big guy out. ADC's still rip his shields to shreds stupidly fast lategame anyhow, so all it'll do is give him some actual kick in the early game if he manages to get fed. And I stress "if".

Pierce The Veal3 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jJEdyGTU,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-07-08T20:20:10.772+0000)

He has a 45% winrate

At this point there is absolutely 0 compensation nerf needed, he just needs flat buffs.

And E devours his mana bar as it is, lowering mana costs for his W and Q would be reasonable buffs too

MANA REFUND ON TERRAIN Q FOR THE LOVE OF THE OCEAN!

TheSingularity1 votes

Yo Lincoln, check out the PBE naut changes.

Personally they're welcome but underwhelming. But also scary as if they go through he'd have less wriggle room for future buffs. http://www.surrenderat20.net/2017/07/711-pbe-update.html https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/IsgHaWj9-meddler-context-on-nautilus-pbe-changes

Xonra4 votes

He is far from a "monster" right now.

He runs oom too fast and too often to clear safe enough to jungle right now. He gooes oom and lost enough power that he gets rofle'd top He can't even properly support right now cause he is simply outclassed by any other tank or hook champ (Yes that includes Blitz right now).

He has no proper place anywhere even for those like me who LOVE playing him. I just know better right now.

Itsbeghdev1 votes

He had mana-based nerfs just four patches before Doran's Ring stacking got killed, and they've not been reverted! Naut used to be one of my favorite toplaners but now he just doesn't work and it's just an absolute tragedy.

Salson3 votes

See the problem is he has no %hp damage that most tanks do. I'd change his E to %hp to mess with his push while keeping damage to champs, while also enhancing his jungle clear. Then we add some W buffs to damage and lower the Q mana cost.

Big Lincoln2 votes

or....

we take % damage away from other tanks

Salson5 votes

And then what, force then to build 1-2 damage-hp items to have lane presence.

That would make them juggernauts.... you might be on to something.

Big Lincoln1 votes

% hp is hardly significant in lane unless it's a really high value like poppy

flat base damage is more important, and naut has that

Sambers3 votes

Mate Nautilus is oppressive AF to play against, he can pin down a person for like 6 seconds, and you want to add more resistances on top of the crowd control he has?

Better put down the crack pipe---

Devilreaper XIII2 votes

winrate means nothing O.o it doesn't tell why players with nautilus win or lose O.O

i faced nautilus number of times and i can tell you.... hes quite obnoxious.... the grab the 2 stuns the slowdown the knock up the dps the tankyness.... hes fore and utmost a tank with cc not damage dealer.....

just build mana + mana regen.... even it out in masteries maybe? i mean nautilus isn't the only manahungry champion. his mana costs seem reasonable. similiar to veigar and such.

there is no need for a buff really .-.

Big Lincoln15 votes

45% winrate is an outlier and it means a lot. Especially when the champ barely gets played at a 3% pick rate, AND when the champ has a very low barrier of entry (Easy to play)

he's a troll pick atm and needs heavy buffs, but I want him to return to how he was before season 5 when power was on his W and not his E. he is much healthier as a jungler than a toplane/support champion

l Helios l1 votes

I'll agree he needs buffs, I just don't really want the return of nautilus top lane who just outduels every melee with his W turned on.

Big Lincoln5 votes

Nautilus was never a meta top laner until they put power into his E and out of his W (early game at least)

l Helios l1 votes

I didn't mean meta wise. It was a pick I would see sorta frequently but never like Caitlyn or Lee level. He was just annoying in duels for me personally. Still, totally deserves buffs.

Xonra1 votes

No one wants him top (okay in this thread that isn't the case). It is mostly an argument for jungling specifically. He was never supposed to be a top laner, Riot just derped that up moving his power the wrong direction in the wrong way.

l Helios l2 votes

If ypu wanred to make him a firm jungler and still keep a solid clear pattern that doesn't bleed into top lane, just give him monster specific damage.

Yfrappefort2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jJEdyGTU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-08T20:34:16.774+0000)

45% winrate is an outlier and it means a lot. Especially when the champ barely gets played at a 3% pick rate, AND when the champ has a very low barrier of entry (Easy to play)

he's a troll pick atm and needs heavy buffs, but I want him to return to how he was before season 5 when power was on his W and not his E. he is much healthier as a jungler than a toplane/support champion

As someone who mained Nautilus jungle from season 3 to season 5, I am very sad that the support/top Nautilus meta destroyed him. I want him back T_T.

Sire Hippington2 votes

Just rewert him to the pre V5.5(the patch where his W was nerfed and the E turned into a spamy aoe-dps) Haveing his W as tradeing and dps tool while his E is a high(ish) cd high impact aoe felt alot better to me.

Right now, his E probably is worse than it was before 5.5 thx to all the damage nerfs it got, so they could atleast put back some power into W. I'm also still waiting for a 50% manarefund on Q vs Walls, so it's a viable mechanic for map-mobillity even without stacking mana.

Jeanne fan club2 votes

It's been a while since I've played nautalis so correct me if im wrong, but when you auto an enemy twice with your shield up, the magic dot stacks rather than refreshes, so the damage is independent of each other. The strategy I used to use in top lane nautalis was to auto attack without the shield, then animation cancel it with W, E, then proceed to melt the everloving hell out of whoever I was laning against.

I find that on your first back you want to have 2 dorans rings, a dark seal and a corrupting potion in your inventory, with those items alone you can practically kill any toplaner (other than maybe fiora) with your ult and full auto combo. The OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of your damage comes from your W auto attacks. E is nothing more than a mechanism that lets you get more autos off in my honest opinion.

I understand the problems you are listing are JG related, however if his shield would get buffs he would practically be fiora tier of 1v1'ing.

I think the main problems he is facing right now is that his mobility is just god awful, and no one can get that LCS tier farming necessary for him to get the items that will prevent him from getting 2 shot in teamfights. Maybe fix his Karthus tier aa animation, and add some sort of passive to his ULT that will allow him not to get focused so easily in teamfights.

TheSingularity4 votes

He's suggesting w buffs to get him back in the jungle. His W wasn't a problem before his stat changes, it won't magically become a problem now if we buff it a tad.

Buffing his shield is far from fiora level dueling. Perhaps it'd be strong early, but that's all. His damage drops off a cliff compared to other champs as the game goes on.

It isn't true damage, % enemy hp dmg, is a dot and relies on shield up time.

His shield deals the damage in 2 ticks, the first is instant, the moment he attacks it happens. The second one happens after a 1 sec delay. This gives the illusion of stacking damage as the dot never stops.

It doesn't stack and instead refreshes. Has been that way since I started in season 3.

TricolorStar2 votes

Although I despise Nautilus, the big guy does seem to be in need of a little help from Rito. Perhaps if the wave slightly displaced enemies? Then it could be used as a sort of baby Monsoon or Moonfall.

Pheobos2 votes

i logged in just to upvote this.

As someone who got into the jungling scene by just using nautilus at first, i would love to be able to actually play a decent game with him again.

AmenPerson2 votes

Yeah, I really want the old Naut W back. With 300 shield at max rank and not 85. That way the new Raptors don't just instantly pop your shield the moment you wave at them.

Rıots Bad Client2 votes

How about if you to use Riptide and hitting a unit that were hit deal 10% reduced damage to your W's Shield(stacking up to 3 times, because riptide can hit the same unit to 3 times.) With that said, I'd prolly decrease the shield base(More aiming to nerf the base in late. NOT early) . But increase the scaling(because health is hard to come by sometimes) And maybe reduce the slow %. but I'd love if it were a stacking slow. so multiple riptide hits made it a bigger slow.

This way he can have a healthier clear but it will not speed up his clear time. And during team fights, his shield could last longer actually making use of its passive.

korg0232 votes

This champion got nerfed to the ground in terms of mana costs, jesus i run oom so fast playing him. That sucks..

Devilreaper XIII1 votes

you just want to play him as a jungler O.o truth is though nautilus is a tank and not a mobile jungler .-. he has no sustain. just tankyness and cc.

elaborate winrate please because i can't comprehend how it actually tells you anything.... besides that players win or lose..... or that the champ is outdated and players prefer to play with newer champs. or because they just don't like the looks of nautilus. it says nothing about nautilus his health or role really.....

other champs with low pick rate are sion yorick mordekaiser anivia urgot

truth is though non of them really needs to be buffed. heck all of them are strong O.o but some of them are difficult to play. some even call urgot -> urgod :P anivia could use a rework maybe? i guess nautilus could use one too. but definitely no buffs .-.

INoble KnightI4 votes

You do realize Nautilus is designed to be a Jungler right?

Xonra2 votes

He was literally created as a jungler <_< I don't know what else to say to that really.

Skorch1 votes

No, no, nonono.

W is by far his best ability. In jungle indeed you max E and its a very easy thing to do... just press E. But even though thats his only clear, since his W is kinda lackluster in the jungle. In lane, his W is insanely good.

IMO they could use to make his Q more useful, something like a small aoe damage where the hook connects maybe.

Naching1 votes

He is a solid champ but he doesnt have any damage and his W/E feel bad.

Bliztcrank can kill champs with one combo and Naut cant kill a minion with one combo.

Blizt have shield, hard CC, better Q,mobility, much damage on R and he isnt jungler/top

The Naut's CC isnt excuse Riot...

The Yetii Rider1 votes

You're assuming that Riot wants to support jungle Nautilus.

Not a very safe assumption. Leona can't jungle either, for the same reason.

Big Lincoln3 votes

he was a jungler for most of his existence

Eevee In A Jar1 votes

Nautilus is more a jungler than he is a support. Nautilus was only used as support when he was at a strong point in the game. As soon as he dropped out of meta, people stopped using him in higher competitive matches for support. You can still use him as a jungler it's just at high elo it's extremely easy to dodge that hook. You have to get real creative if you want to use a champ like Naut and might invest in mobo boots or something earlier than normal. The main problem is there are a lot of Lee and counter jungling champions that's always strong which makes Naut hard to scale as he'd get destroyed in the jungle by some early game strong champs.

Also Riot used to say they will never implement a universal dynamic queue and they did for a whole season. Riot said originally they wouldn't micromanage and ban for every tiny mishaps on the Rift chat. They started doing that. Riot also said they'll try to work against a thing called "meta" and have a game where you can virtually take any champion anywhere as long as you make it viable. Ofc Riot banned some players for going Singed support. Riot has gone back on a lot of their words.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Been saying this for a while myself whenever Nautilus has come up in threads. Used to have a maximum of 100 damage on his W but now it's 70 and his E now deals 175 damage at max rank as apposed to its previous 220 while having that mana cost increase.

This is a ridiculous amount of damage that he's lost.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

The whole point of them drastically reducing the cd on E way back was so he could have more actions per fight. Then for some reason rather than just nerfing its damage more in compensation they instead targeted W for nerfs and then nerfed E as well.

Not to mention with less health in the game his bonus health scaling on his shield is considerably weaker now (despite the increased armor/mr on items increasing overall shield effectiveness).

Re-buffing his W makes sense even if only on the damage aspect. His giant anchor is a bit of a wet noodle atm.

aspects11 votes

the sheild on his w is the biggest in the game at lv1 (its like close to 130hp) if your gonna buff its damage you need to try to make it up somewhere else

The Choncho1 votes

Honestly going oom in the jungle is a problem for all tank junglers (that use mana of course) since the only way they can clear is with abilities. I think the cinderhulk burn should scale with bonus Health and not level imo.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

lower W duration. and increase the damage it does. and double that damage against monsters.

TheSingularity2 votes

Lowering the W duration hurts him allot more that you'd think.

By procing W 7 seconds before the jungle buff spawns, it gives you almost the exact time it takes for a monster to pop it (vastly reducing the damage you take as it returns sooner for the first buff).

While increasing dmg vs monsters is an easy solution. There's a reason riot doesn't do it, it adds another factor they need to consider when changing his spells in the future. And is a band aid fix at best.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

his w is not weak in lane. it lasts for ever for him to be able to clear an entire wave without taking harass.

lowering W duration early levels at least should be it.

TheSingularity2 votes

I never said his W was weak in lane. As for clearing an entire wave, if a naut is able to clear an entire wave with just his W, with his pathetic attack speed without being punished for shoving. Then that's your mistake for not punishing the way they're playing. He's immobile af, his Q doesn't go through minions so gank the hell out of him.

His W has never been the problem before and it sure as hell won't become one anytime soon. His E was the problem, it was a low CD, low mana cost and high damage AOE. His W is a long CD, high mana cost and average DOT.

Lowering the W duration would crush him. Less uptime later on means he is less of a damage threat when his spells are on CD. Less uptime means more damage taken from monsters, riskier tower dives, less survivability if he gets caught.

And given the whole "clears with one W" claim you make, how will increasing damage do anything to alleviate that? IF anything he will do more with less autos. Making a reduction in duration pointless up top. And only hurts his jungle clear.

If you look at Zac Shen Sion Rammus Maokai Malphite Gragas Galio Chogath. They all have pretty dam high early game damage and plenty of wave clear. Wonder if it's a coincidence that other tanks have waveclear and high base damage which all falls off the longer the game goes?

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