The assassin rework has had a very unusual and unexpected side effect:

DunkinNoobs··3 votes·782 views

Pretty much every assassin counters Kayle now, and most of them hard counter her.

Now I can hear what you're thinking "Assassins hard countering Kayle? Kayle shits on assassins!" Hear me out on this one. In the past, Kayle would beat assassins by harassing them in lane, pushing the wave constantly, and carefully timing her ult so that if they try to all in her, she can prevent most of their burst, and then beating them with her superior DPS once they've committed to the fight. But with the assassin rework, Riot lengthened assassins burst patterns in exchange for higher overall damage and greater utility. For most squishies, this is a worthwhile tradeoff, killing the adc instantly is the biggest strength assassins had against adcs in teamfights, losing this ability unless very fed is a huge overall blow to those champions assassination potential.

But for Kayle, this increased assassins effectiveness against her to an absurd degree. Lengthening their burst windows means that Kayle can't simply block all their burst during the duration of her ulti. Giving them greater utility gives them far more options to outplay Kayle compared to before. I've played Kayle against Leblanc Katarina Talon multiple times since the rework and all 3 matchups went from easy to basically unwinnable overnight. Akali, who already did fairly well against Kayle, is now also unwinnable beyond lvl 6 since pink wards can't reveal her in stealth anymore. Khazix Rengar were both reworked in ways to give them much more sustained damage, to the point where they can simply wait out Kayle's ult and then kill her anyway. The only assassins that aren't largely unbeatable 1v1 are Fizz Zed, and even they have the tools to simply outplay Kayle and kill her even if she manages to block their entire ult damage.

12 Comments

N0rth Wind10 votes

So, is that a bad thing?

All I'm reading is "Kayle can no longer win automatically against Assassins but it actually takes effort now".

Sounds pretty neat to me that if I'm playing my main Assassins (Katarina, Talon, Ekko for mid) and I see an enemy Kayle, I don't have to instantly say goodbye to my laning phase.

Pretty damn neat indeed!

DunkinNoobs1 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0rth Wind,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jIylYNql,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-12-19T23:43:06.079+0000)

So, is that a bad thing?

All I'm reading is "Kayle can no longer win automatically against Assassins but it actually takes effort now".

What you're reading is that Kayle is now weaker against assassins than most mages. I'd rather play Ziggs or Vel'koz against assassins over Kayle now. I wasn't being hyperbolic when I said those matchups are unwinnable for Kayle, as in she can't even farm anymore. Their kill pressure on Kayle is so high now that you can't even walk into auto range of the wave past lvl 3. Kayle top has a 55% winrate overall and a 41% winrate against Talon; that's how lopsided the matchup is now.

N0rth Wind3 votes

Their kill pressure on Kayle now is exactly the same as with every other immobile champion with only one defense skill.

Maybe you should actually try to switch to other picks for a while in order to learn how to play against Assassins, instead of relying on your Magic Button Of Counterplay to automatically ignore their burst.

Kayle top has a 55% winrate overall and a 41% winrate against Talon; that's how lopsided the matchup is now.

And Talon has a 38% winrate against Vel'Koz. Should he be buffed?

######Well, actually he should be buffed and he is getting buffed next patch but that's not because he has a few bad matchups in lane

Anyway. Kayle should not even win lane at all considering how dominant she is late game. Like, the only tool there is against hypercarries are Assassins.

Why the hell should she be able to win lane against them? If she's super easy to play, she can win against her counters in the early game and she becomes an unstoppable force of nature late game, what is the enemy team supposed to do about her?

Nah. There are a lot of immobile mages out there (like Vel'Koz) that don't even have 3 seconds of invulnerability every minute or so. Kayle is not even played for her laning phase, so I think she'll be fine.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

[{quoted}](name=N0rth Wind,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jIylYNql,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-12-20T01:29:42.091+0000)

Their kill pressure on Kayle now is exactly the same as with every other immobile champion with only one defense skill.

It's way higher because unlike those champions, Kayle only has 525 effective range, which is extremely short for a squishy AP champion.

Mages can at least farm against assassins with their spells, while also typically having a hard CC spell they can use for disengage. Kayle can't even do that. She can't even let the enemy push the wave so she can freeze because her E pushes the wave by default. If she walks into auto range of these new assassins past lvl 3, she dies, end of story. And they can all outplay her ult so easily now that she might as well not have it. I don't particularly want to win lane. But I'd like to have more than 50 CS at 10 minutes.

FacerollKatarina3 votes

{quoted}

What part of "She can't even farm" do you not understand? Mages can at least farm against assassins. Kayle can't even do that. If she walks into auto range of these new assassins past lvl 3, she dies, end of story. And they can all outplay her ult so easily now that she might as well not have it. I don't particularly want to win lane. But I'd like to have more than 50 CS at 10 minutes.

If you're losing a ranged vs melee matchup, especially on one of the safest champions in the game, thats your problem.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

TIL that Kayle, a squishy autopushing champion with no escape or disegage is safe. You ever laned 1v1 as an immobile adc vs. an assassin? That's what this is.

Enjoy your Kat lvl 2 all in freelo while it lasts.

FacerollKatarina3 votes

A. I think you're forgetting kayle has a heal, ms buff, a slow, and an ult that makes her unkillable for 2-3 seconds. B. If it was up to me I'd have kept old Kat over new kat, and I'm well aware her laning phase is insanely strong. C. Don't pick Kayle into a matchup that you don't think you can win. Sorry she doesn't auto win every lane in the game.

DunkinNoobs1 votes

You'd be hard pressed to find lanes that Kayle wins anymore in mid since both mages and assassins counter her now.

FacerollKatarina1 votes

{quoted}

You'd be hard pressed to find lanes that Kayle wins anymore in mid since both mages and assassins counter her now.

Then don't take her mid, shes playable in top and jg too

MissingKayo2 votes

someone's.... actually crying about assassins being strong....?

WoonStruck1 votes

Its fine. Kayle shouldn't even be allowed to be viable with how binary and cancerous her kit is to face.

Everyone's looking forward to her VGU because it means the current kit will be wiped from the game.

Escheton1 votes

Kayle isn't supposed to win lane tho right? She's supposed to farm till she gets her prime items, die a bit during laning maybe even while trying not to lose cs. Then completely curbstomp anyone who dares come near her. once she has Nashors+Rageblade and maybe Hextech.

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