@Riot: What is your opinion for a "giving stealth" - mechanic?

SaltyToplaneGoat··2 votes·586 views

I had the feeling that this is something rather unique that's missing in the game right now. Of course, simply making it a buff-move cast on allies it's not going to work. Imagine invisible malphite ulting out of nowhere... no that's not the stuff we actually want I guess.

But what about a different approach to this? If directly giving stealth doesn't work, how about an indirect approach? Imagine a skill like yasuo's wind wall, but instead of blocking it "stealths" all friendly units behind it (until an enemy bypasses that wall, then they are visible again). That kind of "illusion spell" would fit perfectly to a mage like Lux (light manipulation, a defensive tool to allow her staying at range - could replace her shield) or Le Blanc (illusions, trickery and stuff). Or maybe another new champ, who knows?

So... what I want to know is: Would it be possible to implement something like that into the game, or is "giving stealth options to allies" something Riot would never do?

Oh, and what about putting stealth ON ENEMIES? No, you still see them, but THEIR team suddenly can't see them anymore... Also an interesting thought if you ask me...

8 Comments

Omnipherious2 votes

There are plenty of interesting ways to go about stealth, depending on what it is you want to accomplish.

IIRC, Lux's W was initially supposed to grant stealth instead of shield. Such a powerful basic spell combined with the magic AoE wombo meta of the time didn't really help the ability pass testing.

Indirect Stealth Variants

Smokescreen like in Counter-Strike

This ability would create passable "fake terrain" like Karthus Wall of Pain which blocks vision just like a regular wall would.

Click on image just below to see album.

http://imgur.com/a/gAwH1

One-way Mirror

This already exists with Graves. His W ability is basically a reverse one-way mirror instead of an actual smokescreen as described further above since you can see inside W while enemies inside W can't see outside.

Mini-map invisibility

This one kind of exists when using item 3341 and item 3364. The wards disabled by these trinkets don't reveal you on the minimap for the duration.

I've suggested a similar passive ability for an ultimate in some thief champion thread before. It was something along the lines of:

Rank 1 - Invisible on the minimap unless close to enemy champions (~600) or structures (~850). Revealed on minimap for 15 seconds when pinged by an enemy. Rank 2 - Invisible on the minimap unless very close to enemy champions (~300) or close to structures (~700). Revealed on minimap for 12.5 seconds when pinged by an enemy. Rank 3 - Invisible on the minimap unless very close to structures (~550). Revealed on minimap for 10 seconds when pinged by an enemy.

Having vision of someone on the minimap is actually a very powerful thing and such an ability can exert immense amounts of pressure even on very coordinated, skilled opponents.

Direct Stealth Variants

Peripheral Vision Stealth

This is a modified version of Evelynn perma-stealth.

The champion with this passive or active ability would be considered "in stealth" if no enemy champion is facing them.

Of course you can tweak the values pretty easily. As long as you are moving within about a 140 degree arc of Janna, you gain the passive MS boost. This stealth would work in a similar way. You could have it scale so that initially, you can see this enemy as long as they are within a 140 degree arc of your champion or allies' vision. As the ability ranks up, the arc gets smaller, maybe to 120, 100 and down to an 80 degree arc at max for a passive.

In extreme cases where this is a short-duration active ability, you might even reduce the vision arc detection range down to something like 45 degrees which is barely larger than cone-shaped abilities in-game. Once again, this can be quite powerful even against very coordinated and skilled opponents given that champions get lots of click inputs that change their direction of facing constantly.

Predator-style Stealth

If you're familiar with the Predator movies or stealth in Heroes of the Storm, you'll know what I'm talking about.

http://www.mobygames.com/images/shots/l/386726-aliens-vs-predator-requiem-psp-screenshot-stealth-mode-in.png

You will be able to see the stealthed enemy if you're paying attention or looking for the slight distortions in vision.

http://allthisrunningaround.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/predator_camouflage.jpg

This type of stealth works very well in a game where skill shots are prevalent since an observant player has options for counterplay.

Stealthing Enemies

Technically, Bard can do this to an extent. He is able to make enemies untargetable through his ultimate, which when you think about it is one of the things that stealth provides isn't it? It is also the primary reason you would want to hide an opponent from their allies, so that they can't be helped simply because they can't be seen.

Actually granting an enemy stealth is very tricky business balance-wise because there are ways for it to be abusive and for the ability to just not feel good.

What if you do grant an enemy stealth? What are the implications and interactions? Are they stealthed to their allies and you or revealed to you? Does them attacking or using abilities break the stealth or is it a time-based thing? What about when you attack them? Are their AA, spells, summoners and or items disabled or usable for the duration? Does an allied AoE or skillshot which hits them while stealthed reveal them? Do their allies' auras still affect them while stealthed?

As I said at the start, it all depends on what it is you want to accomplish. If you have a very clear reason to stealth an opponent or something thematic, then of course a way can be found to accomplish it. But for as long as it is vague, it stays complicated.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

HMmm I see I'm not the only one who had thoughts about stealth in general ^^

About how imagine "enemy-stealth"... your team still sees them, but they would be invisible to the enemy team. Also, for the duration they can't see the champions current hp - that would make the skill work I guess...

In most cases actual "stealth" in my opinion is bad and hell to balance properly. I had a rework thread I had about even once where I proposed changed her passive to "actual" Shadowwalk (= turning into an unatretable shadow and moving along the walls). We are more talking about "vision denial" here I think...

disregardable1 votes

Stealthing enemies would be inconsistent with the game's logic. Your stealth wall idea...is interesting. I think it could be healthy if it was like a reverse graves smokescreen. Your enemies can't see in it, but if they step in it they'll gain vision of you. Maybe like the size of an akali shroud.

We do need a stealth support.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well the main purpose of "enemy stealth" would be disrupting the enemie's teamwork. If you don't know what your teammates are doing you are kinda screwed... but finding a good kit for this would be hard...

Hmmm a reverse smokescreen... I think this skill would be better as a "Wall" than for an simple AoE... Oh, you want our backline? Too bad they have vanished into thin air while repositioning xD

disregardable1 votes

See, Yasuo's block works as a wall because you can see it. You can try to aim around it to step through it. You wouldn't really have that option with a stealth wall, you just have to walk through it. You're losing clarity for your own team (not being exactly sure where the wall's stealth begins and ends) without giving the enemy more counterplay.

SaltyToplaneGoat1 votes

Well, of course the stealth wall itself could be visible (but it should be a bit more difficult to spot I think) - so you know that something MIGHT be there, but you can't be really sure . So you got the choice: facecheck the wall, or wait for it to run out? ^^

Well, the stealth-thing would be pretty obvious. On that side (slight visual indicator for team) you can't be seen - if the enemy is standing on the other side...

Buttigieg 20201 votes

Instalok rengar ADC. :)

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