Playing nasus feels awful (Garen too)

Tychusfindlay919··11 votes·1,043 views

Nasus is supposed to be the top lane's version of a kog maw or veigar. Piece of shit early, mediocre mid, and if you cant finish out the game, an almost unstoppable late game.

Right now, playing nasus is like being a masochist for the first 20 minutes of the game. You get your 5-10 minutes of fame, and then late game you get kited and nuked and your stacks are meaningless.

Garen is in the same boat although perhaps not as bad. You have an absolute terrible early game except in very few matchups (like wukong, but who doesn't shit on this poor excuse of a champion?). You get your little bit of fame when you can dance around with the villain mid game since the villain usually isnt at full build, and then late game you turn into a glorified damage sponge.

What frustrates me is that I don't know what to recommend for nasus that doesn't change him a little too drastically... Garen just needs his early smoothed out a bit since his late isn't too bad since he can at least tank if nothing else (more than nasus ever could).

25 Comments

HateDaddy4 votes

I hate to say it but Nasus needs drastic changes if he's to keep up in today's league of legends

-Nasus player since season 2 with thousands of games on him

GULAG 4 U4 votes

Playing aatrox feels like running a marathon when you just shot your legs with an ak47 3 minutes ago so yeah, same thing.

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

Forgot about the part where you try riding on the slip and slide made of your blood and just end up scrapping your knees

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Shit...

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

{quoted}

Shit...

I believe you mean Aatorx

GULAG 4 U1 votes

Galio skin?

The 2nd Horseman1 votes

I actually got it through trading in a gemstone

GULAG 4 U1 votes

It must be angel urgot skin then?

GULAG 4 U1 votes

More reddish and with a shovel i think

Apocyliptic2 votes

Nasus's strength is mid game, not late game. He's a lot like kindred based on the fact that he technically has infinite scaling, but still falls off just due to the nature of his kit. That's not a bad thing. However, this is just taking into account teamfights, 1 v 1, or 2 v 1, both these champs can probably take anyone on as long as they are stacking.

Garen has too simple of a kit to be useful in higher elos so I never see him. Hell, I barely even saw him when I was in Bronze/Silver/Gold.

What this post is saying is that Nasus is fine.

Swiftstrike42 votes

TL;DR Nasus needs base stat improvements, itemization improvements, and/or greater levels of tenacity from how many stacks he has.

Nasus' biggest issue is that the reward for playing safe and stacking well has been marginalized over the last year for several reasons.

  1. Mobility Creep - which was becoming a huge problem in league and riot has been gradually trying to address it since preseason
  2. Slight nerfs to several items he builds. This has occurred mostly over the last year since the juggernaut rework. The items include item 3025 item 3075 item 3110 item 3009 item 3742 item 3111 item 3053 item 3512 item 3156 item 3024 item 3211 . With items such as item 3078 item 3082 item 3143 item 3026 item 3047 item 3057 item 3065 all being buffed. Over time, the slight nerfs to the several items has netted a loss on Nasus relative to other champions. This is not saying that the buffs to other items have not mitigated some of the damage to Nasus, the overall net effect has still weakened him.
  3. The amount of CC in the game or the trend of high CC related comps is problematic for Nasus. At the moment there is not enough tenacity items for Nasus to buy which has made Nasus less helpful in team fights. Champions with higher levels of CC have been or were in the past prominent top laners: Poppy Sion Ekko Maokai Malphite Gangplank Fiora Irelia. Ekko in particular has still stayed in the top lane, but he is a champion that can loose lane to a Nasus and later still keep him locked down in team fights because of the high utility in his kit. Just one Ekko can really keep Nasus from gap closing.
  4. Nasus received a soft nerf with the mastery changes - with most of the masteries being relatively bad on him to OK at bet. Grasp of the Undying is decent on Nasus, but when this keystone was strong EVERYONE in the top lane was taking it. This marginalized his sustain in lane relative to other champions, making for fewer backs for opponents. It also made it so that Nasus could not simply put all his points into early survival. The tank/resolve tree is much worse than it use to be, with very few providing "tanky" stats. The effect on Nasus is the his base stats received a nerf with Nasus players having to rearrange their rune pages to provide the needed resistances and health needed to get through laning phase. I had to completely rearrange my rune pages on Nasus after the masteries were changed just to get comparable stats.
  5. The pace of the game is faster. The game has been speeding up a bit and it is a little faster than it was in years past. Though they have made towers stronger and lowered death times relatively recently, the trend in armor penetration builds has made laning phase shorter.

Lets discuss the average Nasus encounter with a capable ADC. For this example, lets assume both players are seasoned players with their champions (Approximately Gold). This is an encounter around the 30 minute mark with an ADC. Nasus approaches, ADC kites and inflicts damage but will get withered, ADC kites back applies whatever slow or CC they can use (if they have it). Nasus gets one Q in, but then must wither again in order to kill. Second wither, ADC kites back uses QSS, applies damage and/or CC. Nasus is taking a lot of damage at this point, but not enough to be killed. Nasus will need to apply 3rd wither to ADC. ADC then uses flash and maybe heal to escape over a wall. Nasus gets no kill and ADC escapes with summoner's down.

This scenario omits the involvement of a support or other ally with any type of CC to protect the ADC. True Nasus survives the engagement with an ADC, and maybe can take an objective off it, but he his not rewarded with stacking well or his itemization. One of the reasons that Nasus is much better in the mid game is that enemies have not yet itemized against Nasus. They don't know how strong he is, nor will they coordinate their efforts to chain CC him. The next encounter with him they will. This means Nasus is either a split-push distraction that 2 enemies will have to address together, or he can group get chain CC'd and HOPE that his allies stay with him and inflict enough damage before he dies. This is why item 3026 is such a great item in the late game for Nasus. That second life in a fight is crucial for Nasus to stay relevant.

Solution? I have a few suggestions that will affect Nasus specifically:

  • Improve his base state, more specifically his health or scaling health.
  • Grant some type of tenacity passive for his stack count. Something like 1% for every 100 stacks. This will make it so that Nasus is a bit of a force to be reckoned with if he stacks well.

They could also improve some items, but I think that itemization changes could have greater implications than helping only Nasus.

Nasus is largely fine and significant changes to his kit will only alienate existing Nasus mains. I think Nasus is a champion that takes a lot of patience to play, but the pay off for patiently farming for most of the game is not large enough or guaranteed. This has turned Nasus into a champion that is largely about making decisions. He needs to decide when he should group, when to take objectives, when to avoid grouping, when to exert map pressure, when to farm, and when to chase or zone. Other champions have to make the same decisions as well, but with Nasus' play style largely being geared towards split-pushing, it has made it so that his win/loss ratio is completely contingent on that these decisions. Not based on getting items, stack count, and the mid game power spike.

Kyrrion1 votes

Riot either needs to remove the Villain mechanic, make it more central to his kit (instead of a hastily tacked on damage increase it is now), or reduce its power and make it more universal (such as overall damage % increase on any enemy champ with a bounty).

Otherwise they need to make it so when he starts spinning, he really starts winning (as opposed to pretty much spinning to be on-par late game). Garen's kit has always felt like it doesn't have much of a focus, it's just a bunch of abilities with different goals that happen to work decently with each other. How does Garen make a play other than a Flash-Combo (something ANY champ can do)? Garen's win condition is kill a high priority target, which his kit doesn't and honestly can't support in a healthy way. There's a reason he became a "don't facecheck the bush" meme, as that's pretty much the only way he can fully utilize his kit (which should be a huge red flag honestly).

I honestly think his ult needs to be changed from an execute into something else. Otherwise we're going to run into the "Lane bully who always executes you when you're in lane or has a pitiful laning phase otherwise the former".

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

hes melee. good luck with making him balanced.

Tychusfindlay9192 votes

{quoted}

hes melee. good luck with making him balanced.

I dont get it, league is filled with balanced melee champs.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

{quoted}

I dont get it, league is filled with balanced melee champs.

because they usually have a purpose other than scaling into late game and can do well early. nasus can't. late game he just gets blown up no matter how tanky he is before he lands 2 Qs.

hhaavviikk1 votes

playing against nasus can also feel awfull, he got allot of sustain and he almost forces you to a snorefest in top lane considering how long he stays up there and if you ignore him for too long RIP goes the inhibitor and all the towers.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

wtf. Garen is already broken as fuck. He doesn't need buffs. Just nerfs.

Troll for Trump1 votes

He's just really, really outdated.

As for Garen, I still feel his rework was necessary. Same with Darius.They didn't need changes.

agbudar1 votes

new reworked Q last hitting minions will only give you 1 damage hitting champions with Q will give 5 stacks killing a champion will give 10.

there now you have an engaging gameplay.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

new reworked Q last hitting minions will only give you 1 damage hitting champions with Q will give 5 stacks killing a champion will give 10.

there now you have an engaging gameplay.

His lane phase is now even shittier against champions he cannot afford to use siphoning strike against.

Darius Illaoi Pantheon Riven Renekton Gangplank Ekko Trundle

Raidarc1 votes

I don't see anything wrong with him. He is a beast capable of two-shotting carries and towers alike without very many hard counters if you're experienced.

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Why Wukong is consired that bad?

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

Why Wukong is consired that bad?

Not necessarily that he's bad, he just has a shitball lane phase that he makes up for in his teamfight potential with his ult.

Wukong's lane phase is plagued by his general squishiness (especially since his passive is straight up useless) and high mana costs since every time he goes in he usually has to do so by using his entire combo. Every time he uses all three abilities he loses over 100 mana almost instantly, and his base mana starts at a horrific 266.

Wukong's squishiness isn't necessarily due to base stats but because he has zero sustain (not that his base stats are particularly amazing).

I can't stress it enough that he has to use his entire combo to poke. Sure it hurts only a little less than eating a renekton combo, but it severely depletes his mana.

Compare it to typical top laners like Darius who can sustain and harass with just one spell.

Skias1 votes

Both are boring, binary champions with very little lane interactions. That's why it feels like shit. The champions both are just a stat check to see if you beat them or not.

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