When does Lee Sin fall off/stop being meta?

General Esdeath ·Jun 9, 2017·17 votes·2,229 views

Because I'm about to start banning this guy instead of champs I think are OP. He one shots me with tank items and a Warrior enchantment, gets played every other game, and frankly I notice all the Lee's I run into are toxic as hell. Every time I see a Lee thread I always see someone reply "He falls off late" and I'm still waiting. He still has the mobility to get to the back line, and if he can't he just kicks the front line into them (Chunking our tanks with Q R Q), he still has the damage to one shot our adc and support, and he still has the self sustain and spellvamp on his W (the only spellvamp in the game anymore) to just heal up if we chunk him and force him to use his insane mobility to get away.

71 Comments

THE RlVER KlNGJun 9, 20177 votes

He was out of meta for a bit in the Cinderhulk meta in mid S5 until Riot gave him some inane buff to his ult that rewards him for kicking tanks.

Wasn't even weak, 48% winrate or something with his usual 20-30% play rate even when tank junglers were dominant. Riot just freaked out when he wasn't the #1 jungler in Solo Queue or always picked in the LCS.

Anu3isIIJun 9, 20173 votes

Not to mention that they also nerfed the top dogs, and then the item.

I have no problem with annoying champions being viable, but when their Play Rate is the highest in the game for years, they get extremely frustrating...

AsudurgaJun 9, 20176 votes

Every time I see a Lee Sin in a game, they are always so god damn cocky and full of themselves. Oh wow, you one-shot me with only a item 1408 and item 3071 , cool, oh what's that? You have a Mastery 7 you want to show me for the 10th fucking time after literally sitting in a brush for the last 5 mins waiting for me to show up to my lane or buff?

Lee Sin is the embodiment of this phrase; "Dude, just fuck off already."

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20174 votes

He falls off mid to late game.

People will meme that he doesn't but he literally does.

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20174 votes

How so? He still does insane burst damage while building tanky items.

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20173 votes

He really doesn't. Learn to not talk in hyperbole.

Watch your replays, chances are he was ahead off of several kills.

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20174 votes

Yeah, look at all these damage items he got to burst us down with Q R Q

http://i.imgur.com/0eZRMjY.png

I like the new Infinity Edge icon, it looks like Randiun's.

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20173 votes

Way to ignore Black Cleaver and Warrior enchantment dumbass.

How long did this game go?

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20173 votes

100 AD let's you one shot an ADC? Cool man. And this game went on for 30 minutes.

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20172 votes

one shot an ADC

Alright kiddo, I'll bite.

Show me the replay of this happening.

tC0gzVJ6rFJun 9, 20173 votes

Literally any popular stream. Sneaky has a popular video of lee sin flashing into the middle of the team and 100-0ing him and escaping alive at about 31 min with warrior, BC, Dead mans, Ninja Tabi, and half a randuins. He was 2-5 when he did it. I'll try and find the clip.

Outside of that it doesn't matter, You could look up "lee Sin one shot" and a billion things would pop up. He can one shot an ADC the second he hits 6 with two long swords

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20171 votes

Kid, I said show me the replay.

If you want to take someone's place in the argument then actually take their place in the argument. Don't just half-ass it. The burden of proof is on the guy who says "Lee Sin can 1 shot" in a game where the Lee seems to be pretty even in items/levels with the Marksman. So if you want to take his spot in the argument, then show the proof, don't just say "It totally exists out there I promise."

tC0gzVJ6rFJun 9, 20171 votes

Do you even play this game? lmao

Lee sins full combo with 130 AD at level 6 does 780 Damage. Thats excluding any autoes. That would one shot every ADC with a level 6 health pool, especially if he autoed once or twice.

I can even spell out the math for you if you would like.

Also stop calling people kid. Its cringey as hell and makes you look like a 15 year old edgelord.

Also, this is something that is common knowledge. If you watched any high elo streams then you have seen tons of times of Lee Sin one shotting someone

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20171 votes

full combo one shot full combo one shot

DO YOU SEE THE PROBLEM HERE BUCKAROO?

tC0gzVJ6rFJun 9, 20171 votes

The definition of a one shot or being 100-0'd is being completely deleted with one rotation of an opponents spells.

and stop with the condescending kids names. It is literal cringe

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20172 votes

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/one-shot

Words have meaning, child. You can't just have them mean whatever you want them to.

tC0gzVJ6rFJun 10, 20172 votes

Dude, you are the most cringeworthy person this boards has ever seen. It obviously isn't the dictionary definition of it because it means something different in the gaming universe and is used as slang. You are actually so pathetic I can only imagine this is b8

You actually called an argument out because I did not use the real world dictionary definition of One Shot but rather the definition established as slang by the gaming community.

Leave your mothers basement lmao

Tobias BracknerJun 10, 20171 votes

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=one%20shot

5 and onward sweetheart.

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20171 votes

I was waiting for that comment, so I uploaded this last night before going to bed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apzE5WthZzA

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20171 votes

Alright, sport.

Your homework: Look up the items that Lee Sin had. Do the math on how the impact his damage, and then compare them to Caityn's health and armor.

Extra credit: Present the literal definition of "one shot"

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20171 votes

Didn't we just discuss these items? And I already stated how much AD it gives him. And one-shot is to kill someone within one rotation of spells (as he did here). I'm starting to think you're trolling me here, Tobias.

Tobias BracknerJun 10, 20171 votes

And one-shot is to kill someone within one rotation of spells

No it's not...

And no we didn't discuss these items. We mentioned them but we never discussed them. That's why I'm telling you to do research. There is more to those items than AD, kiddo. The moment you understand that is the moment you understand what just happened.

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

It is though, and don't try to lecture me on the cleaver shred, because 2 hits only means 8% armor gone.

Tobias BracknerJun 10, 20171 votes

Count the hits again, you do need to be lectured on cleaver shred.

And now calculate how much armor the Caitlyn lost, and what that means for Lee's damage to her.

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

I'm talking about the R Q Q on me fam, not Cait. Hell just looking at Cait you can see her lose 50% of her HP from Q Q.

Tobias BracknerJun 13, 20171 votes

I'm not talking about the video that was posted in this conversation, I'm talking about something else that hasn't been mentioned at all.

Ok yeah I'm done with you. Learn to pay attention in a conversation and not focus on "being right." You have your homework, do it and you will get a lot better at League. You will also become less of a whiny baby who has no idea what they are talking about.

RealČernochHoursJun 9, 20171 votes

-Not buying Ninja tabis on ADCs

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20171 votes

I'm Soraka support, need them CDR shoes to heal my carry. FeelsSupportMan

Tobias BracknerJun 9, 20171 votes

Her heal has a super low cooldown. If you are getting caught / hit by a shitton of AD then get the Tabi.

Also you are fucking Soraka. When Lee follows the Q drop the constellation on the ground and watch him cry blind tears.

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20171 votes

If I E myself, he can still fly to me for the missing HP damage on Q and walk away, if I E him he may react faster than I can walk up or even just walk out of it and Q again. And the heal is an 8 second CD lv 1 and becomes level 2 at max rank, however you don't max it first all the time. You want to max Q first for the harass, slow, and self heal in certain matchups, such as fighting Lucian and Zyra.

ReZisT LustJun 10, 20171 votes

e slightly behind you as your running so when he qs in he lands halfway into the pool and gets snared as you run

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

Couldn't run that fast, he was right next to me and used RQQ

ReZisT LustJun 10, 20171 votes

ah he much skill r q q

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

It's hard hitting Q on a target flying through the sky in a straight line

Tobias BracknerJun 10, 20171 votes

Why are you living in a magical world where Q has no cooldown? Stop whining and actually research the champ. Also why are you positioned away from your team when Lee Q'd you? Sounds like he took advantage of your poor positioning. That's your fault for dying, not evidence of Lee's power.

Her heal loses 1.5 seconds w/ each rank. At level 10 you have it down to 5 or 3.5 seconds. That is fast as fuck. If you stylistically prefer MAXIMUM CDR HEAL MACHINE that's fine, but it is by no means the only way or even the best way to play Soraka.

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

??? His q has 2 casts. Did you forget that? And who said I was alone? You know if he throws a Q at us I can't see (like from a bush/fog/over wall) I can't really dodge it.

Tobias BracknerJun 10, 20171 votes

What kind of dumbass play are you thinking with the Soraka?

#When he flies at you from the Q landing. Drop the constellation at your feet. He is now trapped with you unable to use his combo and now your whole team kills him.

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

Oh I'm sure he'll go into that one. No way in hell he predicted it after I did it 2 times to him before and then he stopped falling for it. Not to mention Soraka's E is bugged and SOMETIMES the silence decides not to work.

Tobias BracknerJun 13, 20171 votes

What?

Dude, you do it as he flies at you.

Lee Sin has no choice but to get caught.

I'm so done with talking to you. Learn to read a conversation instead of just half-assed paying attention and trying to find some way to be right by ignoring the words said.

PePsiLemoNNJun 9, 20174 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/LeeSin/Jungle?

His winrate is over 50% only in the first 25 mins

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20172 votes

And how long do games usually last for?

PePsiLemoNNJun 9, 20172 votes

More than 25 mins ;) . Even if games lasted 10 minutes it doesn't matter. The point is his winrate drops the longer the game goes on , you asked when he falls off , there's your answer.

General Esdeath Jun 9, 20171 votes

"As the match goes on" o'clock? Got it

SlythionJun 10, 20172 votes

Lee falls below a 50% win rate at the 25-30min mark (as the graph clearly says)

if your argument is that games are ending too early, then make that complaint. It's no one champion's fault that the game itself doesn't give time for them to fall off

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

No my complaint is that I've been in matches at 50 minutes and he still does enough damage to one shot my ADC

SlythionJun 10, 20171 votes

anyone can combo an adc, it depends on the build. A bruiser/tank lee can not Q - R - Q - E and adc and kill them though, not from full hp

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

Don't forget the second Q cast scales with missing HP.

SlythionJun 10, 20171 votes

barely anything though, it's like an 8% missing hp or something right? It's not exactly the killer execute like a Garen or Veigar ult with 35+% missing hp scaling

General Esdeath Jun 10, 20171 votes

Oh not at all, but helps a lot when the enemy is at 20% HP.

O Fallen ScholarJun 13, 20172 votes

I agree. This champ has been viable since release. And pretty meta almost all the time. Despite his "negative" winrates Lee still wrecks and creates tilt heavy environments to this date.

The only reason he's been a powerhouse for so long is because of his jungle clear/sustain power (one of the fastest of all time) and of course huge mobility and burst damage. The only way to move some of that early clear speed and sustain away is to nerf it of course. To compensate he needs to be better in late game. But I guess Riot is not fine with that.