@ShacoMains, Rather than getting upset about damage nerfs, how about we ask for more counterplay?

DrugsForRobots··4 votes·1,211 views

I keep advocating that Shaco's puff of smoke should be larger, more vibrant, better animated, and that his evil laugh upon disappearing should be audible in a huge range.

I commonly get the criticism from Shaco mains that "this would make Shaco unplayable" and "this would destroy Shaco's ability to gank".

Lets think about it for more than five seconds. Has Riot not already harmed Shaco's ganking ability? Is his invis duration not only shorter (until you get 4 points in Q), but his damage lower overall as well? If it was more obvious that Shaco was coming for you, then he could afford to be more powerful, yes? If the problem is that Shaco can burst you from invisibility, let us ask Riot to make it more explicit that that you're being ganked by him, so that you can have 1s+ to react or mentally prepare yourself for the clown. And if Shaco's unique tells were played up, then it means him successfully ganking is a demonstration of skill, yes? Despite being 'weaker' because of his tells, a successful gank means he outsmarted and outplayed his enemies, correct?

Look at Rengar. Rengar has a unique audio cue SFX, a unique warning indicator, and can be seen if he's not careful with his positioning. That's three tell-tale signs. Is having Shaco have a visible and audible clue that he's ganking going to make him totally impotent? He's still invisible. He can still sneak up on people. All those fools livestreaming and voice-chatting with friends and listening to music are actively handicapping themselves against such tell-tale signs. Even when that isn't the case, he's still invisible! He can come from any direction. It also pushes Shaco to gank from unexpected angles, so as to 'hide' the puff of smoke. And the audible evil laugh? Well, I should think that anyone who hears it would automatically go into panic mode. Imagine the paranoia of hearing that Shaco's around only for him not to jump on you. What's he planning? What's up to? Where is he? Playing up his unique tell-tale signs gives him a way to mind-game his enemies. And, most importantly, it gives his opponents a split-second more time to react... which was the point of the assassin updates in the first place, yeah?

I can't foresee Riot making Shaco any less unfun to play against by merely moving his numbers around. The issue is (and always has been) with invisibility and how it is presented in the game.

(As a side note, it blows my mind that Evelynn and Twitch, two of the most notoriously problematic champs in League's history (because of their invisibility) don't have unique audio clues that alert players to their presence. Go figure.)

And no, I don't think having access to an item that lets you counter Shaco's invis is the same thing as Shaco's invis having good innate counterplay. Just because you could QSS the point-and-click stun that old Taric / old Sion had doesn't mean that the point-and-click stun had good counterplay.

But I'd love to hear other Shaco mains tell me why I'm wrong.

Shaco

11 Comments

Blood Lyrics2 votes

This hurts both AD and AP Shaco. AP Shaco is a problem due to his ability to 1-shot a squishy from stealth in <1 second (after 3 items). AD Shaco does not have the issue. AD Shaco is already borderline nonviable. Just nerf the AP ratios and leave AD Shaco alone (or a small buff to be honest...)

DrugsForRobots1 votes

If Riot emphasized Shaco's tells, he would be 'weaker', yes?

If he was 'weaker', he could afford to be buffed / be strong, yes?

Blood Lyrics1 votes

What you're saying is true, don't get me wrong. However, it is far easier for Riot to nerf the AP ratios on Shaco to make AP Shaco fall around the average. Moreover, I don't think making a champion weaker in design while buffing the damage is a good change. Shaco's unique identity revolves around appearing out of nowhere, I'd rather not have them change that.

Jon11741 votes

I agree with the audiable laughter, as a fellow who plays singed when they added the laugh on his throws it helps in pissing people off and make them more greedy which champs such as Singed and Shaco can abuse

Shaco my BFF1 votes

Oh, why not just take away 50% of his damage overall and put a large indicator for enemies saying "DANGER!! YOU'RE GOING TO BE GANKED BY SHACO!!"

nTitled1 votes

the problem is that ap shaco (what I play) is that it has no constant damage. All of the damage is burst so after that you are dead. So with the changes he has to be very fed to be able to be able to kill anyone who is at 100% health.

DrugsForRobots1 votes

Boxes deal 900 damage at max rank if they get all their attacks off. AP Shaco has tons of constant damage if you play around boxes.

"But the enemy will just use red trinket to negate your boxes!"

There's that issue of 'counterplay' again. His boxes have very little innate counterplay. Offering an item that hard counters his traps isn't what I'd consider good counterplay.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

the problem is that ap shaco (what I play) is that it has no constant damage. All of the damage is burst so after that you are dead. So with the changes he has to be very fed to be able to be able to kill anyone who is at 100% health.

Just walk up to them, E, and Q away if you feel you can't oneshot them. Right?

lolipopevelynn1 votes

Its laugh should be louder, the smoke should remain the same tho. Its already visible enough. cant have both a loud laugh and vibrant smoke otherwise the ability would be pointless.

Asayake 5150glow1 votes

{quoted}

Its laugh should be louder, the smoke should remain the same tho. Its already visible enough. cant have both a loud laugh and vibrant smoke otherwise the ability would be pointless.

Uh... it's a flash+invisibility+auto attack enhancer. Not exactly what I'd call useless.

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

Uh... it's a flash+invisibility+auto attack enhancer. Not exactly what I'd call useless.

didnt say useless, I said pointless. It would mainly be used for escapes if the changes you suggest were made as everyone would know shaco is trying to gank you. You would have to be a literal vegetable not to know, kind like the guys who ward river but still get ganked and dies by a lvl 4 ww that passes over the ward.

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