You consistently gear towards casual players who could not careless if they were any rank in the game. The competitiveness feels so lost and out of shape that the game almost feels like a quick time with friends or a break from a real competitive game. Its so hard for people to take this game seriously. The only thing that runs is LCS - which hardly seems competitive either....
KING ATTILA48 votesA South Korean player made an NA account just to write on the boards and say that League is dying in South Korea because Riot removed Solo Queue. They want something that actually measures skill, not skill of friendships for premades.
Azure Hamster4 votes[{quoted}](name=KING ATTILA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j9teHlyo,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-07-05T00:28:53.867+0000)
A South Korean player made an NA account just to write on the boards and say that League is dying in South Korea because Riot removed Solo Queue. They want something that actually measures skill, not skill of friendships for premades.
Duo already did that.
IS1a442cd69a169ed293a3921 votes[{quoted}](name=Azure Hamster,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j9teHlyo,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-07-05T02:44:57.119+0000)
Duo already did that.
And it was problematic, but not as much.
Dextix LT11 votesAye, it was tolerable at best.
ModCaptainMårvelous6 votesIf that was the case, Overwatch wouldn't have taken off at all because it has DQ as well.
No, there are far more problems people have with League in Korea. Namely the scripting/botting stuff and how Riot Korea failed spectacularly to handle it. DQ, by comparison, is far-far-FAR lower on the totem pole.
Dextix LT17 votesOverwatch is still taking off because they are intent on making changes and are new on the scene.
Riot however, had half a year already, and all they could come up with was badges, fcking badges.
ModCaptainMårvelous9 votes???
Besides DQ and the new champ select they've modified the queue times, added back ranked 5v5 and put in autofill (Which I don't think was smart but whatever). They've done a lot more than just "badges lel".
You're also putting way too much trust in Blizzard. They're not "new to the scene", they've been making video games for like 30 years. Also, much like Riot, they're "testing the viability" of 60 tick rate in competitive play while standard FPSs have 60 or higher tick rate. CS:GO can go up to 128 n some servers. Or look at any of their old promises that they failed to deliver on (Just like Riot because Blizzard and Riot are basically the same type of company. They promise something, fail to deliver and then go "BIG SORRY WE WONT LET IT HAPPEN AGAIN".)
Still, my point stands: DQ might have been the final straw but let's not pretend it was just DQ that was the problem in Korea. That would be disregarding the NUMEROUS (and I do mean numerous) issues Korean LoL players have had with Riot Korea.
Dextix LT5 votesAnd how does autofill fix anything that dynamicq has problems with? It doesnt, New champ select is a completely different entity from DQ, which is actually good. And it is funny to me how 5v5 ranked had to be added and removed in higher elos, showing that systes actually has to be changed back to be good.
And yes, blizzard is not new. But we cannot treat it like a monolithic entity. Just like Riot is divided into different teams, Blizzard has different teams with different directions in all of their games. As such, them making other games has no bearing on this as it is their first time trying to make a competative FPS. The biggest problems that people have with Blizzard stem from the WOW team, which is the worst team of the company.
And yes, i agree DQ alone is not going to make the whole Korean scene leave, however it has a big impact and was more than a straw that broke camels back. It was a huge, and bad decision that impacts every scene.
ModCaptainMårvelous4 votesWell one of the major problems with DQ/New champ select (It's a mixed affair) is the long queue times. Auto-fill fixes that problem somewhat. By no means is it a graceful solution but it does work toward fixing it.
IDK about you but almost every Blizzard product in the last ten years (Sans Overwatch...for now) has had a major problem. HotS was dead-on-arrival with designs that make Kalista look amazing. Starcraft 2 was a botched affair that Blizzard tried to fix too-little-too-late. Diablo 3's launch and questionable RL AH took an entire expansion to hit and WoW.....yeah....WoW....Legion could be good? I hope? Still, Blizzard's problems are all over the place in every team. Could OW be the team that changes things? Absolutely. Do I trust them? Well, considering the ranked problems as well as the questionable state of balance, I can't say it's all that high.
But yeah, we're in agreement. DQ was bad for Korea. I don't think it was THE hugest problem Korea has had with Riot Korea but yeah it was pretty bad for them.
iamthegoatofwar3 votesbitch you're gonna drop the new champ select out of this mixed affair bs right now. They're separate things.
WoonStruck5 votesModified Queue times, unbalancing the game as a whole in the process.
By widening a already substantial MMR gap allowance (about 200 in solo/duo), you end up with extremely lopsided match-ups, skill-wise.
That's how Riot 'reduced' queue times.
They made match-making fail as well.
Its dynamic queue + role select that lead to massive queue times.
Role select in a solo queue environment would easily fit people together because it wouldn't have to compensate for premade players hogging specific roles.
LegitBacon661 votesNamely you all are forgetting League is free..
franticFurball1 votesOverwatch doesn't have the limitations of an ARTS(Action Real Time Strategy)-MOBA, with fixed lanes and a rigid meta. If my team cannot protect me from coordinated attacks in OW, I play something that can protect iteself, like a Zarya or Roadhog
The biggest advantage of most premades? Voicecom. OW has built-in voicecom, which is on by default
OWs game design, with capture points and payloads, forces the entire team to work together in any case, instad of racking up KDA on 3 different lanes
And even so, guess one of the biggest demands of the OW community? Removal of Dynamic Queue
ModCaptainMårvelous1 votesNot yet on the rigid meta but guess what, it's already popping up. Go check out pro play. Metas are already happening.
Agree on the voice comms, although I've seen people say "WELL WE DONT NEED VOICE COMMS" or just ignore it.
Hey guess what, so does League and DOTA. Hey, guess what, people still chase KDA in Overwatch.
Some of them, sure. Others are saying it's not a big deal because voice comms and the like. There's a ton of dissenting voices even with all the rage at DQ. I've seen more demands for fixing the scoring system, the leavers -and- the way coin flip works than I have for DQ removal.
franticFurball1 votesMetas are already happening.
This is 6v6 competitive play in professional teams. Try that 2xWins2xLuci2XTrac combo in comp. normal queue and see if it works (hint: no, it fails miserably, because their tracers won't get through your frontline, and your zarya + reaper will tear the winstons apart, lucio or no)
so does League and DOTA
Should've clarified that: The people are IN THE SAME SPOT in overwatch (unless they are bad, and if that's the case well, sh** happens man. They are not dispersed across three lanes, so coordinated movement is a bit easier.
As to people chasing KDA: Again, bad players happen.
I've seen more demands for fixing the scoring system, the leavers -and- the way coin flip works than I have for DQ removal.
That's the point I can agree on.
Because, DQ is present in OW, but as you said: Its simply not a big deal. Yes, we would like to see it removed, but due to the aforementioned factors, its simply not a big deal.
PiVoRx1 votesYou dont need to make accounts in specific regions to post on other forums? Im from eune and i can post on NA with no problems, maybe for korea its different i dunno.
Dengeden1 votesIdk, skillful play is already largely measured by how well you can play with your team. Look no further than ADC, the most mechanical role for verification. Considering that DotA exists, my guess is they wanted to emphasize that.
They can nerf TF and other champions that thrive on teamplay (with the click of a button) more freely using DynamicQ as a justification.
Tobias Brackner1 votesI've never understood this argument. I've seen maybe one premade doin stuff that demonstrated they were on top of their communication game. Everyone else I play against is pretty much just as good as randos.
KING ATTILA21 votesDQ as a system is fundamentally flawed in terms of accurately measuring the rank.
BigBellBrute1 votes[{quoted}](name=KING ATTILA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j9teHlyo,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-07-05T00:27:11.013+0000)
DQ as a system is fundamentally flawed in terms of accurately measuring the rank.
Any system that purports to precisely and accurately measure individual skill in a game with 5 players with the teams changed every single game will be fundamentally flawed. The difference between DQ and solo is a drop in the flaw bucket so to speak.
KING ATTILA3 votesAny system that purports to precisely and accurately measure individual skill in a game with 5 players with the teams changed every single game will be fundamentally flawed. The difference between DQ and solo is a drop in the flaw bucket so to speak.
DQ has more flaws than SQ did.
General Esdeath 21 votesLCS is so boring now because Riot keeps trying to remake champs with some big "THIS IS FOR TEAMFIGHTS" skill.
ult
barrels/ult upgrades
new ult
EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS E Q COMBO
ult
Too bad one of these is never played and the rest are played in the most boring way possible. It's the same crap every game. lane swap, 3 man the turrets on top and bottom with bot lane and jungle, swap lanes, counter jungle. It's like a damn script when they counter jungle. Counter jungling should not be "ok he's probably taking my wolves right now like every other game so I should go take his" It should be "ok I saw him gank top so I'm gonna take his bottom side camps". Shit's so boring to watch now I just keep it on as background noise for the shoutcasters.
Noblewind4 votesI'm not saying I enjoy the tower trades, because I really don't, but it's inevitable that coordinated pro play will have these tradeoffs. It isn't 5v5 Challenger Solo Queue, they're not making totally on-the-fly plays.
General Esdeath 6 votesI know but I'd rather watch a team defend their tower 3v3 with a surprise attack and get ahead. It's boring to watch these games.
WoonStruck6 votesIf DotA and DotA 2 can have an arguably more competitive scene that utilizes 'laning phase' so much that junglers practically aren't meta, I don't see why League can't make their competitive meta more healthy as far as laning.
All they need to do is add higher risks/penalties against the current tactics if they don't want to properly balance the game.
What they need to do, at least in LoL, is double or even triple outer towers' health. Not resists, health. There's nothing that says they have to arbitrarily be squishier than inner and inhibitor turrets. If they want to stop these bullshit 'avoid laning' tactics so pro players can avoid the risk of being out-played, or a counter match-up without having to deal with a 2v1, they have to make it so the time investment (thus exp and gold given up) absolutely is not worth it.
Powerful, meta picks should not be the go-to without having the risk of a counter-pick to shut them down or it will always be the same "these 25 champs are all that will be played" stuff we see in competitive.
Oakleaf Ranger1 votesI believe outer turrets are getting a buff next patch don't quote on it though
Toplane Fencer2 votesAll these new champions are awesome, though.
General Esdeath 1 votesIt's not the point though, they're not really entertaining to watch and it's always the same 20 champs.
hotarse1 votesLCS is so boring now because Riot keeps trying to remake champs with some big "THIS IS FOR TEAMFIGHTS" skill.
Too bad one of these is never played and the rest are played in the most boring way possible. It's the same crap every game. lane swap, 3 man the turrets on top and bottom with bot lane and jungle, swap lanes, counter jungle. It's like a damn script when they counter jungle. Counter jungling should not be "ok he's probably taking my wolves right now like every other game so I should go take his" It should be "ok I saw him gank top so I'm gonna take his bottom side camps". Shit's so boring to watch now I just keep it on as background noise for the shoutcasters.
And some of the new casters are too irritating to put on as background noise. Im looking at you azel
General Esdeath 1 votesI need a noise, I prefer voices
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesTo be fair imho GP rework was the best thing they ever did. He finally feels contributing to the team and he is pretty balanced atm. He needs some mechanical skill too. One of my favorite champs now, never touched him before.
General Esdeath 1 votesI think his barrels do a little too much, but either way it's not entertaining watching the same 20 champs (All of which are mid to late game) play safe with the same scripted objective paths.
Avarosa Guide Me1 votesLCS is so boring now because Riot keeps trying to remake champs with some big "THIS IS FOR TEAMFIGHTS" skill.
How... Just what. I'm not ranting on riot or anything but thats a skirmishing and dueling ult. If there are multiple people around its a bitch to get off unless they just let you get your hits off.
General Esdeath 1 votesThe heal itself is used for team fights because it's a Janna heal but on your top lane. And I barely see duels in LCS until the person initiating is ahead by 2 kills and a bunch of farm.
macromite7 votesThe hardcore players are the ones that won't leave. Riot can't drive them away with something as small as a few reworks and a queue change.
Some of the competitive players are leaving, but that shift started before dynamic came out, and it happened naturally.
Give it time, you will either leave or understand. either is really fine with me.
Noblewind3 votesExactly, many of this group, especially those in the pro scene, started playing in Season 1. It isn't unheard of to move away from a video game after having played it for 6 years. There are plenty of new, young players in LCS, and the general group of new hardcore players are actually busy playing the game and not reminiscing about the good ol' days on the boards.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesYeah and without offending anyone but when i see those "new young players" many of them are SO FRICKIN BAD if they don't get their meta power picks it's saddening. That's not skill. One trick ponying isn't that hard.
Azure Hamster6 votesThey did not "abandon" ELO. They are using a more sophisticated system (ELO has no theoretical underpinnings for games with more than 2 players), the MMR, and they hid it. It's still there, still doing its work.
K2mE xpleader13 votesElo is dead. Thanks to DQ.
The Yetii Rider4 votesYeah, it's pretty ridiculous listening to this group of people who demand the original competitive nature of solo queue. The same competitive nature that had everyone calling players 'f- - - -ts' and 'n- - - - rs' for missing Smite one time. The same competitive nature that pushed almost 100,000 South Korean players to install aim scripts just to get that little bit of competitive edge in the ranked ladder.
When we compete against each other, we're all toxic. When everyone feels like rank doesn't matter, they're a lot more bitchy but a lot less virulent.
zSkeletoRz18 votes[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j9teHlyo,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2016-07-05T02:53:15.767+0000)
Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous listening to this group of people who demand the original competitive nature of solo queue. The same competitive nature that had everyone calling players 'f- - - -ts' and 'n- - - - rs' for missing Smite one time. The same competitive nature that pushed almost 100,000 South Korean players to install aim scripts just to get that little bit of competitive edge in the ranked ladder.
When we compete against each other, we're all toxic. When everyone feels like rank doesn't matter, they're a lot more bitchy but a lot less virulent.
Weird, just a few days ago I had a toxic trio go on a ten minute tirade, telling my team as well as their own, that we were all a bunch of "dirty n@ggers, ban me rito, fuck n@ggers"...
Kind of makes your statement a lot of bullshit.
The Yetii Rider4 votesWeird, just a few days ago I had a toxic trio go on a ten minute tirade, telling my team as well as their own, that we were all a bunch of "dirty n@ggers, ban me rito, fuck n@ggers"...
Kind of makes your statement a lot of bullshit.
Not...really?
"A few days ago" is not nearly as bad as solo queue. Solo queue it was every third game. You couldn't play a day without having someone bitch or curse at you.
You say that your anecdote makes my statement bullshit, but I say that it means toxicity is down 70%. 1/3 days is way better than I ever thought this game would get.
Dextix LT5 votesDisposing of toxicity by compromising ranked integrity, play and the whole ranking system is stupid.
You have a mute button for a reason to deal with toxic players. Because they will always be in the game.
Also, it is not clear whether dynamicq or new champ select had more impact on toxicity.
And to be fair, toxicity rates have decreased, but the concentration of them has increased.
Again, fixing such a non-problem that everyone can avoid by using a mute button by basically killing off any competative ranking, is idiotic.
WoonStruck2 votesBack up your facts yo.
I rarely ran into problems in solo queue outside of role select, which has a system in place that would solve that entirely and wouldn't need to be removed along with Dynamic Queue.
Game would be better with no downsides vs how it was before if they did Solo Queue+new Role Select and made Dynamic Queue 2+3 and 5s respectively.
TR102 votesBack up your facts yo.
I rarely ran into problems in solo queue outside of role select, which has a system in place that would solve that entirely and wouldn't need to be removed along with Dynamic Queue.
Game would be better with no downsides vs how it was before if they did Solo Queue+new Role Select and made Dynamic Queue 2+3 and 5s respectively.
You know it's the role select that increased queue times in the first place stop mixing up dynamic queue and new champ select
TheSlogs3 votesThey wanted quicker competitive games because some people didn't like the long games of season 5. The problem is that they removed a large amount of strategy by doing that. League is now about killing your opponents and then push hard, not working as a team to strategically win the game.
tXQbsPrjN53 votesThat's ghostcrawlers mo. He'll be cataclysming every game he works on till he dies.
ItLooms1 votesWow, what an excellent post. First they removed the burst from burst mages....so that casuals can get away and now they are planning an assassin rework? Whoever is in charge of the reworks should be given the sack. Just look at the state of rework Brand.....play rate dropped from 12% to 3.6% (champion.gg). Malzahar lost his damage and burst...Viktor lost his burst and got damge over time buff.
You are removing the goal people strive for...you are making the game too forgiving....you are killing your game.
SpookyNeedle2 votesViktor is still quite bursty
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesYeah, it's almost like Brand requires a certain amount of skill now.