Old champions are totally nothing comparing to new reworked. Old kits are simple and straight. New kits are just so much overloaded so they can't be properly balanced. Fiora: heal, slow, crits, slow, stun, true damage, dashes, MS boost. GP: slow, MS boost, true damage, ignoring enemy armor, can take off any denuff, heal.
Trylobyte3 votesPassive that provides armor and MR shred for the whole team? Point-click slow with a big AP ratio that applies passive? Enormous movespeed boost that also heals a lot? Gets permanent AoE autoattacks that scale off AD AND AP, AND stack with Runaan's? Free Zhonya's that still lets you kill people every 60 seconds?
Holy shit, what an overloaded kit. Rito nerf this shit plz.
Wait, what do you mean it's not OP?
Oh, yeah, it's just Kayle.
It's really easy to make a kit seem overloaded or overpowered, and some of the older champions have pretty heavy kits as well.
Mimy1 votesDon't forget everyone's favorite old time champion. 
Can stay invisible? Can kill you and not be around? Has a global taunt to make every enemy come to him? Has poison every auto attack that scales off AP? Has tons of speed and even more when he activates it? Can make you miss basic attacks?
CAN GO INTO STEALTH WHILE BACKING WITH BARRON BUFF?! WHAT THE _______ BEEEEEEEP
dEAdbUs1 votesTeemo always was and still can be eaten by tanks/assassins.
Laughing Fish2 votesFree AP for building defense, ranged slow, bonus movement speed (both for himself and allies), defense buff that can be cast on allies, self healing, and a AOE taunt that can hit all 5 enemies. Galio is so OP.
See? You can make anyone sound overpowered if you only list their strengths, and none of their weaknesses. http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/5/55/Truestory.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130111043659
dEAdbUs1 votesI'm sure you're playing Galio and winning every Fiora and GP that you meet.
Laughing Fish1 votesI think my point went over your head. I am not saying Galio is op. I am saying that if you only list strengths, and do not list weaknesses, than anybody can seem OP. http://i.imgur.com/fC4ttka.jpg?Noredirect
Hasztalan21 votes[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j8dZ6r5L,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-28T14:00:37.049+0000)
Free AP for building defense, ranged slow, bonus movement speed (both for himself and allies), defense buff that can be cast on allies, self healing, and a AOE taunt that can hit all 5 enemies. Galio is so OP.
See? You can make anyone sound overpowered if you only list their strengths, and none of their weaknesses. http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/5/55/Truestory.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130111043659
Except GP and Fiora have no weaknessess.
Gigahappytown1 votes[{quoted}](name=Laughing Fish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j8dZ6r5L,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-10-28T14:00:37.049+0000)
Free AP for building defense, ranged slow, bonus movement speed (both for himself and allies), defense buff that can be cast on allies, self healing, and a AOE taunt that can hit all 5 enemies. Galio is so OP.
See? You can make anyone sound overpowered if you only list their strengths, and none of their weaknesses. http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/glee/images/5/55/Truestory.gif/revision/latest?cb=20130111043659
yeah execpt gangplank has no exploitable weakness which is why hes permaban in worlds/lcs
hes the vayne of top lane no unfavorable matchups no bad early game and a extremely strong late game ontop of having massively increased gold gain and extremely strong waveclear and the safest possible farming.
Zone of Endless1 votesChanges in philosophy.
That's why older champ are getting reworked.
dEAdbUs1 votesSo now every champion need to have all this?
Zone of Endless1 votesSo now every champion need to have all this?
idk. Ask Riot about that. I just know they take old and weak champ and rework them so they are viable again. Some old champ are still good so they slightly tweak their kits and keep them relatively the same, but some requires an overhaul of everything.
It's for the better honestly.
dEAdbUs1 votesFiora was pretty viable. Darius was broken before and now - no difference. Garen was pathetic after nerfs and broken before. Skarner was so-so. GP as tank was pretty nice (GP was weak because critplank wasn't really strong).
Zone of Endless1 votesFiora was pretty viable. Darius was broken before and now - no difference. Garen was pathetic after nerfs and broken before. Skarner was so-so. GP as tank was pretty nice (GP was weak because critplank wasn't really strong).
Fiora was strong but did not fit the meta. She was made in the time where split pushing was a thing but after she was released the meta change to constant team fighting and objective control, something fiora doesn't really excel at.
Darius was strong before but definitely not broken. He would still get kited like he would now but by the time he got into the fights he would've died. The new Darius give him chance of survival in teamfights, idk if his heal is still too strong, i don't have enough knowledge on that to be talking about it.
Garen is definitely not broken or pathetic before/after nerfs. He's actually the most balanced of all juggernaut. He's actually still the same aside from the new villain mechanic. He only does more damage to the "villain" and can still be easily kited just like before. Unless you're the villain his damage is the same/slightly weaker.
Skarner is w/e. idk. Crystal spire is cool.
GP was weird in that his kit has a damage spell, and self-heal, and an AoE support skill, and an ult that does AoE damage. Not to mention his passive sucked donkey balls so they had to do something to him. He wasn't that interactive as a champion. The rework made him better by giving him better ult(with upgrades), a better E, and some interaction between his skill that make sense.
dEAdbUs1 votesFiora was strong but did not fit the meta. She was made in the time where split pushing was a thing but after she was released the meta change to constant team fighting and objective control, something fiora doesn't really excel at.
Riot said many times that they don't care about meta, and they won't create champions just to fit meta. Garen even after reworks is just soloQ champion. So this reason is just senseless.
Darius was strong before but definitely not broken. He would still get kited like he would now but by the time he got into the fights he would've died. The new Darius give him chance of survival in teamfights, idk if his heal is still too strong, i don't have enough knowledge on that to be talking about it.
Darius was broken after release and get tons of nerfs. Later he get buffs, and now he's reworked to a monster.
Garen is definitely not broken or pathetic before/after nerfs. He's actually the most balanced of all juggernaut. He's actually still the same aside from the new villain mechanic. He only does more damage to the "villain" and can still be easily kited just like before. Unless you're the villain his damage is the same/slightly weaker.
Mate you're may be new to this game. I remember Garen's "spit to win build" with 6 Sunfire Caps (they stacked before). And he was OP.
Skarner is w/e. idk. Crystal spire is cool.
Skarner is ok now, imho.
GP was weird in that his kit has a damage spell, and self-heal, and an AoE support skill, and an ult that does AoE damage. Not to mention his passive sucked donkey balls so they had to do something to him. He wasn't that interactive as a champion. The rework made him better by giving him better ult(with upgrades), a better E, and some interaction between his skill that make sense.
Most players were playing GP wrong - he was very ok as tank, while critplank worked only vs nubz.
Zone of Endless1 votesRiot said many times that they don't care about meta, and they won't create champions just to fit meta. Garen even after reworks is just soloQ champion. So this reason is just senseless.
Darius was broken after release and get tons of nerfs. Later he get buffs, and now he's reworked to a monster.
Mate you're may be new to this game. I remember Garen's "spit to win build" with 6 Sunfire Caps (they stacked before). And he was OP.
Skarner is ok now, imho.
Most players were playing GP wrong - he was very ok as tank, while critplank worked only vs nubz.
I wasn't talking about season 1 and season 2 stuff. Season 3 was when Riot slowly changes their philosophy on how the game work and that's where i most talked about. After releasing champs with some overloaded kit they look at older champ who were nerfed to oblivion or their kit were just too weak in the game to compete against newer champ. They also don't like point and click CC and their rework on champ remove those point and click CC. They also removed silence because it was unfun and the opponent can't react against it. They're also slowly phasing out grievious wound. So while Riot doesn't endorse a meta, changes force a new meta to be created by pros/players.
edit: don't forget LCS is a thing. Most of the changes try to make LCS more fun and exciting to watch
dEAdbUs1 votesGames are fun to watch when they have something for your everyday casual game. Now it looks like pro's playing another game - another rotations, another picks, everything is different. And ye, one side game - very fun to watch.
As I said champion kits were too weak AFTER tons of nerfs. Now Riot always talk about "fun". I don't see any fun to play with or against reworked champions. I liked old Darius (even after all nerfs), and I don't like new one. Old Fiora was ok too.
Yeah they removed all point and click stuff, and now we have tons of scripters, suffer vs champions like LB, and I think newbies will find this game terrifying (I started to play skillshot champions after 1 or even 2 years of playing LoL), because I tried to make a new account and this was pure hell to level it vs Yasuos and LBs in every game.
As main said Fiora counters her counters (she can counters any CC, while CC is only way to stop her), and this is a main idea of game now - skillshots vs mobility.
Personally I found this season auwful: Lee Sin wasn't nerfed after 2 years of total domination, LB is still stomping low elo. Instead of this they're experimenting and create even more broken champions.
And Renekton (god of toplane) is back - thx to new items.
Imho even supersimple experiment - more bans will show what people hate. I think there is not so many picks that people dont like. Before Juggernauts I had situation when after 2 bans people werent sure what to ban, because they were ok. And what's now?
Zone of Endless1 votesGames are fun to watch when they have something for your everyday casual game. Now it looks like pro's playing another game - another rotations, another picks, everything is different. And ye, one side game - very fun to watch.
As I said champion kits were too weak AFTER tons of nerfs. Now Riot always talk about "fun". I don't see any fun to play with or against reworked champions. I liked old Darius (even after all nerfs), and I don't like new one. Old Fiora was ok too.
Yeah they removed all point and click stuff, and now we have tons of scripters, suffer vs champions like LB, and I think newbies will find this game terrifying (I started to play skillshot champions after 1 or even 2 years of playing LoL), because I tried to make a new account and this was pure hell to level it vs Yasuos and LBs in every game.
As main said Fiora counters her counters (she can counters any CC, while CC is only way to stop her), and this is a main idea of game now - skillshots vs mobility.
Personally I found this season auwful: Lee Sin wasn't nerfed after 2 years of total domination, LB is still stomping low elo. Instead of this they're experimenting and create even more broken champions.
And Renekton (god of toplane) is back - thx to new items.
Imho even supersimple experiment - more bans will show what people hate. I think there is not so many picks that people dont like. Before Juggernauts I had situation when after 2 bans people werent sure what to ban, because they were ok. And what's now?
Riot tries to create more diversity with their changes and I think they're succeeding. Even with darius, fiora, Gp, and morde getting perma banned you saw a lot more champ being played than the usual Lee Sin, Kha'Zix, and Elise every game.
I just play the game and adapt to whatever Riot is changing so that's what I think.
dEAdbUs1 votesSad, but you're wrong. Every season Worlds have same diversity: about 50% of all champions are played there. Plus 20 champions are picked in 2/3 of all games. Proofs here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/V0WsriPU-champs-seen-at-worlds-a-list
So no improvements in diversity.
Zone of Endless1 votesSad, but you're wrong. Every season Worlds have same diversity: about 50% of all champions are played there. Plus 20 champions are picked in 2/3 of all games. Proofs here: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/esports/V0WsriPU-champs-seen-at-worlds-a-list
So no improvements in diversity.
if you look at pick rate season 5 has a lot more variety. Previous season most other champ were only picked once. Season 5 other champs have more time in the spotlight than just 2 or 3 games. Season 4 jungle was basically Kha vs Lee. Season 5 you see elise, lee, gagas, and rek sai, and other champ with relatively equal pick rate.
Gigahappytown1 votesFiora was strong but did not fit the meta. She was made in the time where split pushing was a thing but after she was released the meta change to constant team fighting and objective control, something fiora doesn't really excel at.
Darius was strong before but definitely not broken. He would still get kited like he would now but by the time he got into the fights he would've died. The new Darius give him chance of survival in teamfights, idk if his heal is still too strong, i don't have enough knowledge on that to be talking about it.
Garen is definitely not broken or pathetic before/after nerfs. He's actually the most balanced of all juggernaut. He's actually still the same aside from the new villain mechanic. He only does more damage to the "villain" and can still be easily kited just like before. Unless you're the villain his damage is the same/slightly weaker.
Skarner is w/e. idk. Crystal spire is cool.
GP was weird in that his kit has a damage spell, and self-heal, and an AoE support skill, and an ult that does AoE damage. Not to mention his passive sucked donkey balls so they had to do something to him. He wasn't that interactive as a champion. The rework made him better by giving him better ult(with upgrades), a better E, and some interaction between his skill that make sense.
garens e deals more damage than previous version after level 7...
and gps passive was extremely strong and way better than his current passive
the reason gangplank was "bad" was because no one knew how to play him.
Zone of Endless1 votesgarens e deals more damage than previous version after level 7...
and gps passive was extremely strong and way better than his current passive
the reason gangplank was "bad" was because no one knew how to play him.
No way old Gp passive was stronger than current passive. It had a 7% slow and deal magic DoT. I'd take the true DoT and movement speed bonus over a 7% slow and magic DoT.
edit: fixed some wording
Zebekn1 votesThis philosophy is going to kill this game one day.
dEAdbUs3 votesImho it's already coming T_T this season is worst ever. All reworked champions are in permaban, this means something.
Zebekn1 votesImho it's already coming T_T this season is worst ever. All reworked champions are in permaban, this means something.
yeah, honestly if it doesnt improve by next season im done with this game. Which is sad because this is really the only game out there i have any interest in playing. Going to be a sad day for me.
VasilisGreen1 votesImho it's already coming T_T this season is worst ever. All reworked champions are in permaban, this means something.
By all you mean... who? Only darius and garen are permabanned... you were saying?
Meep Man1 votesThey arent overloaded, old champions kit just have much more power packed into one thing so adding anything else would push them overboard. New champions tend to have their power split over several mechanics.
Hasztalan21 votesOP u are totally right but sadly Rito doesnt care about anything besides "muh lcs bigplayz" cuz thats what gives them money so they just overload everything.
1374341 votes{quoted} GP: slow, MS boost, true damage, ignoring enemy armor, can take off any denuff, heal.
Old GP (who was one of the original 40 champions) also had a slow, MS boost, heal, and could take off any debuff...along with an AD steroid (and passive increase). Back in the day he even had a deny mechanism. They only added true damage and swapped the AD increase to ignoring enemy armor.
