now that top lane bruisers are being buffed, can someone at riot please take a look at garen?

Critmaster Garen··8 votes·681 views

im not even asking for number buffs or ability reworks here, just do some tweaks and improvements to make his kit less clunky and we can see how it goes from there.

ive already asked for this in the past. but im going to list these again.

1. sit down and take a look at the targeting mechanism of villainy.

who made the most amount of kills on the enemy team within 5 minutes has proven not to be enough of a reliable metric to always filter out the largest carry threat on the enemy team. you have more stats youre tracking every game that you could work into the ability. from raw stats on enemies like ap, ad, to dps, to burst, to most gold, to which items the enemy has. there is a lot of room for improvement here. all it takes is for someone to be willing to put in the time and efford to tweak the mechanic and find a way to weight these factors against each other to make villainy hit the proper target.

if you find that you cant really make the auto targeting work, look into alternatives to let him apply villainy himself to a target and see what other changes are neccessary to compensate for this ability.

**2. remove the lock out of his w during the q animation. **

this can be problematic in certain cases. a lot of champions have the ability to instantly cc garen during the time the q animation plays. let us activate w during decisive strike, so we might be able to parry these abilities.

**3. speaking of his q animation. **

again, please just let the animation speed up with garens level, so its not as limiting as a play making tool around midgame anymore. during the early lane phase, the slow q is fine as it can provide counterplay for his opponents in lane. but at later game stages the counterplay to garen should be more strategic oriented and to deal with him as a team

4. reduce the deactivation timer for his spin from one 1 full second to 0.5 seconds to make prepping caster minions to lasthit under turret easier.

i can understand why you might have put it at a full second. its probably there so new players dont just mash the e button and accidentally deactivate the spin immediately. though id argue that half a second is enough of a safetly, there might be other ways around this. maybe it would be possible to include certain options in the control menu next to the smartcast button. a checkbox or something similar that activates button spam safety mechanisms for new players and experienced players can turn off. something like this might be useful for other champions aswell like Malzahar with his ult and could end up as a general game improvement for new players, without building these into champion kits and limit more experienced players.

just look into what you can do to make his kit more fluid and it might actually be enough of a buff for now. tweaks like this can make a huge difference as weve seen from other champions in the past.

12 Comments

Triumphant Glory4 votes

This need to be looked at.

LyingOnLine1 votes

Most champs can't cast spells while they're in the middle of an animation.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Most champs can't cast spells while they're in the middle of an animation.

excuse me? thats almost entirely how rivens kit works?

many casters can "overlap" auto attack/spell animations or cancel spell animations with other abilities. i dont think it would be too much to ask in this case.

you can test this out with abilities like MonkeyKing q and his w which is a very similar case of an empowered auto attack with a slow animation. if he can activate his w during his q animation and the q still connects, i dont see a reason they cant make it work on garen from a technical side.

LyingOnLine1 votes

Riven isn't most champs. You and I both know that.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Riven isn't most champs. You and I both know that.

how does this matter though? its obviously possible to achieve from a technical side. so why shouldnt it be done in case of garens q and w?

Death by Glamour2 votes

Isnt her animation canceling just a bug that they refuse to fix?

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pink Leg Warmers,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j5vvN6ip,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-02-22T23:06:46.365+0000)

Isnt her animation canceling just a bug that they refuse to fix?

i dont think so. other champions can do similar shit. her general animations are faster and snappier than most champions ability animations, which is why she can chain them potentially faster.

like yasuo can do something similar and alternate auto attack cancels with his q and e. its just more limited, because the e animation takes longer.

fiora has a fast combo with auto attacks, her q and her e, and tiamat etc.

lux can blow almost all of her abilities instantly by overlapping the cast animations.

and like i mentioned, MonkeyKing can activate his w during his q animation aswell, and the q will connect. especially this case would be very similar to letting garen activate w during his q animation.

it also looks like Gangplank can do the same with his q and w. though both animations are so fast, that its hard to tell and doesnt really make a difference anyway.

Colton1471 votes

Illaoi Fiora item 3070

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Illaoi Fiora item 3070

eh. theyll benfit from the new keystone.

the thing with garen is really id take those animation and kit tweaks before i would even ask for number buffs. because if hes still in a weak spot afterwards, you can still slowly buff numbers.

like with illaoi and fiora, their kits are already very fluid and have a lot of mechanics to them. so the best way to balance them would be number buffs/nerfs from there.

but making garens kit more fluid to play when youre not completely new to him would be so nice.

Salamencę1 votes

Let's be honest, Garen is just a bad champ. Outside of his silence, spin, and ult he does nothing at all. He charges at you, you run until his q expires, and then you kill him. The only thing that would make him a decent champ would be a rework tbh. At this point he's not even really a niche pick, he only hard counters Riven top lane, and there's better top laners that counter her harder.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Let's be honest, Garen is just a bad champ. Outside of his silence, spin, and ult he does nothing at all. He charges at you, you run until his q expires, and then you kill him. The only thing that would make him a decent champ would be a rework tbh. At this point he's not even really a niche pick, he only hard counters Riven top lane, and there's better top laners that counter her harder.

you can simplify a lot of champions like that. "nasus just stacks", "singed just runs"

if you dont attempt to improve the champion, then of course nothing about him will change. id personally keep these improvements to kit tweaks. as someone who actually mains him, id go as far as saying these changes would help him a lot.

Salamencę1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j5vvN6ip,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-02-23T03:33:14.180+0000)

you can simplify a lot of champions like that. "nasus just stacks", "singed just runs"

if you dont attempt to improve the champion, then of course nothing about him will change. id personally keep these improvements to kit tweaks. as someone who actually mains him, id go as far as saying these changes would help him a lot.

The difference is though when Nasus stacks and Singed runs they are actually accomplishing something. When Garen charges at you all you do is wait for it to run out and then kill him. Nasus stacks to become an unkillable monster and Singed runs to fling an enemy into his team. Garen just runs at you and dies lol.

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