hey guys i got a funny chogath joke for you

Big Lincoln·Aug 2, 2017·10 votes·519 views

how do you balance a champion with high base damage, high utility, and 2k true damage nukes

call him a tank hehe

24 Comments

RalanrAug 2, 20174 votes

[deleted]

gabetheguyAug 2, 20172 votes

{quoted}

He's not a tank.

Fuck him and fuck you.

wow. a bit aggressive don't you think?

on another note, cho has literally no utility. where'd you get that from?

Big LincolnAug 2, 20172 votes

no utility lol

RalanrAug 2, 20174 votes

The balance of Cho just pisses me off and I'm getting real sick and tired of everyone using him as an excuse to blame tanks.

PennsAug 2, 20172 votes

i dont blame tanks im just saying Maokai Chogath Shen Gnar top Chogath Sejuani Gragas RekSai Maokai Zac jungle Thresh Rakan Alistar Braum Blitzcrank supp being by far the best champs in pro play except for Elise = tank meta hehe

Sp33d Zer0Aug 2, 20174 votes

But rakan isn't a tank

PennsAug 2, 20172 votes

he is played as a tank tho

RalanrAug 2, 20173 votes

I don't see many tanks running away from frontline fights.

PennsAug 2, 20172 votes

Well what else is the Rakan with item 2302 item 3800 item 3190 item 3109 item 3050 item 3047 ?

RalanrAug 2, 20173 votes

An enchanter that's building durable?

Is Fizz a tank if he builds those?

PennsAug 2, 20172 votes

Y..eah, he is. I mean, idk about you but I dont really care about what Rito says, a Jarvan that builds cinderhulk + full tank and jumps in to soak damage with Stoneplate, maybe shields his team with Locket, is a tank. A Jarvan that builds warrior, lethality and full AD is an assassin/diver.

RalanrAug 2, 20174 votes

See that's the difference, I do care.

I care because it's what helps us understand better on what Riot is intending to accomplish in a champion and their respective roles. It makes it easier to point out that Mr. Full AP Zed for some dumb reason is doing much better than Lethality Zed when he's not intended to build AP at all.

Dumb example, but sometimes I feel I need dumb examples.

This doesn't excuse when champions are doing their jobs too well, but honestly I'm having problems getting to that argument because people don't seem to understand what level of "well" or even what exactly a champion is supposed to do.

They look at tanks and think, "tough guy that's hard to kill" and be done with it. That is lazy and only makes actual discussions on balance worse

I can stand in the back of my fountain and stay alive because the mountain kills whoever comes to me. In that situation I'm hard to kill so I might as well be a tank right?!

PhDs NutsAug 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

See that's the difference, I do care.

I care because it's what helps us understand better on what Riot is intending to accomplish in a champion and their respective roles. It makes it easier to point out that Mr. Full AP Zed for some dumb reason is doing much better than Lethality Zed when he's not intended to build AP at all.

Dumb example, but sometimes I feel I need dumb examples.

This doesn't excuse when champions are doing their jobs too well, but honestly I'm having problems getting to that argument because people don't seem to understand what level of "well" or even what exactly a champion is supposed to do.

They look at tanks and think, "tough guy that's hard to kill" and be done with it. That is lazy and only makes actual discussions on balance worse

I can stand in the back of my fountain and stay alive because the mountain kills whoever comes to me. In that situation I'm hard to kill so I might as well be a tank right?!

Is AP Ezreal a Marksman?

RalanrAug 2, 20171 votes

Off the top of my head I consider him an AP midlane marksmen like how Corki functions.

Except lacking some consistent damage in favor of spells.

PennsAug 2, 20172 votes

Idk, to me it seems more like just a generalization... Build and playstyle matters more to me than what riot says the champ is. And, I mean, everyone calls it "tank Fizz" when he builds tanky with Tri Force.

I dont really understand how it makes discussions worse or balance harder, who cares when someone says "X is a tank" when its classified as "diver" or whatever by Rito? And if you care, why exactly does it matter?

RalanrAug 2, 20172 votes

Idk, maybe it's because I don't like seeing tanks nerfed for dumb shit like Mundo for some reason.

And any discussion where one side clearly doesn't understand the argument or the subject just makes things harder in general.

Like if someone complains about J4 with BC doing too much damage as a tank, you notice that there are factors the person doesn't understand or just refuses to understand.

PennsAug 2, 20172 votes

Ive seen you say that but.. does that happen? I mean.. how does that happen? Someone says "tanks like Mundo are op" so tanks get nerfed? Or do you mean tank items get nerfed because of champs like Mundo?

And I mean, it depends on what you think "tank means". You could argue that the J4 with Black Cleaver "does too much damage as tank" when his full build is item 3071 item 3047 item 3193 item 3109 item 3194 item 3143 , I dont see the problem with that. Sure he isnt classified as "tank", but he basically is one.

The argument there wouldnt be that "he does too much damage as a champ that was classified as tank by Riot", it would be that "he does too much damage while being too durable (a "tank")".

RalanrAug 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ive seen you say that but.. does that happen? I mean.. how does that happen? Someone says "tanks like Mundo are op" so tanks get nerfed? Or do you mean tank items get nerfed because of champs like Mundo?

And I mean, it depends on what you think "tank means". You could argue that the J4 with Black Cleaver "does too much damage as tank" when his full build is , I dont see the problem with that. Sure he isnt classified as "tank", but he basically is one.

The argument there wouldnt be that "he does too much damage as a champ that was classified as tank by Riot", it would be that "he does too much damage while being too durable (a ;tank")".

It has happened. Namely how certain resolve masteries were nerfed due to their interactions with Mundo and Volibear early in preseason six.

PennsAug 2, 20171 votes

Well.. but that would also have happened if no one called them "tanks", right?

RalanrAug 2, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Well.. but that would also have happened if no one called them "tanks", right?

Unlikely. The boards don't have that much influence upon balance choices.

Sp33d Zer0Aug 2, 20171 votes

Odd, looks to me like rakan's most common items are item 3504 item 3069 item 3107

Big LincolnAug 2, 20172 votes

woah there buddi don't get toxin now or the ghost of Lyte will get you

PennsAug 2, 20171 votes

lmao hehe

Arsenic SulfurAug 2, 20171 votes

Cho'gath isn't a fucking tank! A tank needs to either engage a fight or protect the backline, neither of these things Cho does all that well. He ain't a juggernaut either because he has range and CC. Not a battle mage because he doesn't exactly have sustained damage on the level of all of the other battle mages. Cho'gath is Cho'gath and should be balanced as such!

How do you balance Cho'gath? You make him unreliable even in his danger range. You make him a parked truck and make sure he can't stick. He isn't going to hit a long range Q if you know how to dodge and aren't lagging! You could get out of his range before unless he had Rylai's for perma-slow shenanigans and even then. But then they gave E a slows so now he can actually stick, nullifying a weakness and boosting his reliability.

If he didn't have the damage he had since his fucking release, he'd be a shit tier pick that is totally outclassed by all the classes I listed up in the first paragraph! Thematically it would make no god damn sense that this WORLD-EATING ELDRITCH HORROR deals jack diddly shit! You're only complaining about him because he is popular, that's it!

His ult isn't gonna reach 2k true damage unless the game goes on for like 50 minutes and he stays on top of his stacking game. And by then everyone is full build and should have absolutely no problem stopping him from eating your carries as he needs to be near 3 people to double his health and thus severely boost his damage! Actual one-shots with ult are incredibly rare and burst combos would've killed you in every iteration of Cho'gath stoneplate or no!

Is Cho'gath a problem right now? Yes as he's got a 9% pickrate and 54% winrate in the jungle(op.gg). But it's not the damage. It isn't stoneplate. It's E that fixed some of his weaknesses! Blame your hate towards that! Not the obvious non-culprit that is the target of complaints every single fucking time Cho'gath is meta and thus a target of circle jerk!

/rant