they have clear windows of power/weakness in comparison with the rest of the roster. (so far i seen) the rest have heavy heavy damage at the start.
to you whos the most fair top laners in your opinion.
if you wish to argue why these 2 are fair go ahead and tell me your points.
R0ses R Red4 votesMorde for sure is an incredibly fair champion, so I'd list him, but I wouldn't keep Vlad. Then I'd add Sion and Swain. The common theme is that you can actually punish these champions relatively easy, and it's not very one-sided for either person. When it comes down to a Vlad, sure, he's weak early, but he's still ranged and has his pool & healing. He's far more capable of punishing you than you are of him.
xDogMeatx2 votes[{quoted}](name=R0ses R Red,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-03T00:23:58.873+0000)
Morde for sure is an incredibly fair champion, so I'd list him, but I wouldn't keep Vlad. Then I'd add Sion and Swain. The common theme is that you can actually punish these champions relatively easy, and it's not very one-sided for either person. When it comes down to a Vlad, sure, he's weak early, but he's still ranged and has his pool & healing. He's far more capable of punishing you than you are of him.
idk vlad lacks that assassin (burst) damage that other (majority) top laners have where you question am i gonna survive this time or can i leave since their burst deletes me? with vlad i dont have that question since i know when he bursts and you can hide near minions on his E (blood explosion dont know exact name) ability. you have the option to avoid his damage.
Moody P4 votesMordekaiser literally does not have downtime on his damage
GigglesO2 votesUnless you have a dash and you do short trades or kite him like you are supposed to do. He’s not like yi... dodge e and as soon as his passive is gone reinitiate
Rewt3 votesI cant tell if you are being Sarcastic or not.
But Morde.... yeah he is just hella strong. Im fucking trash at laning. I literally only play jungle. But when I get filled to top lane (cause How that fucking happens when I Queue Jungle/Support is beyond me) I just lock in Morde and win lane. its so free.
Vlad on the other hand...... Eh. Just build an executioner's Calling and smash his face into the ground with something like Panth, Olaf, Rengar, etc. just something that is really good at dueling.
xDogMeatx3 votesI cant tell if you are being Sarcastic or not.
But Morde.... yeah he is just hella strong. Im fucking trash at laning. I literally only play jungle. But when I get filled to top lane (cause How that fucking happens when I Queue Jungle/Support is beyond me) I just lock in Morde and win lane. its so free.
Vlad on the other hand...... Eh. Just build an executioner's Calling and smash his face into the ground with something like Panth, Olaf, Rengar, etc. just something that is really good at dueling.
im not being sarcastic here.
morde he needs his hook to chain his damage up which is on a big cooldown.
while vlad he needs 2 qs with also a resource meter to display his power window. i dont see how these 2 are a problem for a top laner.
Rewt2 votesI honestly feel that morde is too strong because If I can roll up to people who are constantly high mastery (im aware mastery =/= skill) and make it look like they have never played that champ before while I literally cant lane to save my life with 98% of the roster. Something might be afoot.
xDogMeatx1 votesI honestly feel that morde is too strong because If I can roll up to people who are constantly high mastery (im aware mastery =/= skill) and make it look like they have never played that champ before while I literally cant lane to save my life with 98% of the roster. Something might be afoot.
its a champ by champ matchup basis. i mean obvious counterplay to morde is his long E cooldown to chain his passive. i mean if morde didnt do that, that means he has to aa/Q (not isolated)/aa. which means he takes more damage as a result.
Chembaron Yamada1 votesMordekaiser has his shield to counteract this "more damage". And with conqueror and his passive, he can actually do quite some damage while the enemy is basically forced to do nothing but run away from him. Because if Mordekaiser has his passive, he will outdamage you.
Then there is also the fact that Mordekaiser gets bonus MS with his passive, so getting out of his reach gets a bit harder as well.
The long E cooldown is that window of opportunity you mentioned for him it seems. But Mordekaiser's damage has absolutely no downtime whatsoever, his passive has no CD and his Q CD is fairly low.
On top of that, Mordekaiser has no ressources to manage. He can spam his spells all time to trade with you, meanwhile most his match ups have to carefully spend their mana to not stand there with no spells available.
FrancisMuni1 voteswhile vlad he needs 2 qs with also a resource meter to display his power window. i dont see how these 2 are a problem for a top laner.
The problem with Vlad isn't that he hasn't got windows of (relative) vulnerability, but rather that is a late game farm champ who also is one of the safest in the entire toplane. He can farm at range, he has a pool that he can use to escape a lot of situations and ganks and every attempt of kicking him out of the lane is instantly negated by his HUGE sustain. In that regard, he is the opposite of what a farming toplaner should be.
Think of Nasus. Melee, has to use biggest damage tool for farming, is incredibly susceptible to ganks, can be counterpicked into oblivion, even if he maintains decent farm its't wortless as long as he doesn't have enough Q stacks, his passive doesn't get him real sustain until he is Lv9, has 20% CDR and about 300 Q stacks...
Yes he is really strong once he has farm enough but at least he is punishable. On the other hand Vlad farms without much trouble for 15 mins and then he starts deleting 2 or 3 people at once while healing his entire lifebar twice, being invulnerable with his pool and 
and repositioning himself wherever he wants with 
. That's the problem with him.
xDogMeatx1 votesThe problem with Vlad isn't that he hasn't got windows of (relative) vulnerability, but rather that is a late game farm champ who also is one of the safest in the entire toplane. He can farm at range, he has a pool that he can use to escape a lot of situations and ganks and every attempt of kicking him out of the lane is instantly negated by his HUGE sustain. In that regard, he is the opposite of what a farming toplaner should be.
Think of Nasus. Melee, has to use biggest damage tool for farming, is incredibly susceptible to ganks, can be counterpicked into oblivion, even if he maintains decent farm its't wortless as long as he doesn't have enough Q stacks, his passive doesn't get him real sustain until he is Lv9, has 20% CDR and about 300 Q stacks...
Yes he is really strong once he has farm enough but at least he is punishable. On the other hand Vlad farms without much trouble for 15 mins and then he starts deleting 2 or 3 people at once while healing his entire lifebar twice, being invulnerable with his pool and
that makes sense basically its more the fact vlad feels indestructible to defeat in lane then say nasus. in laymans terms
Xavanic2 votesI cant tell if you are being Sarcastic or not.
But Morde.... yeah he is just hella strong. Im fucking trash at laning. I literally only play jungle. But when I get filled to top lane (cause How that fucking happens when I Queue Jungle/Support is beyond me) I just lock in Morde and win lane. its so free.
Vlad on the other hand...... Eh. Just build an executioner's Calling and smash his face into the ground with something like Panth, Olaf, Rengar, etc. just something that is really good at dueling.
I've beaten lots of mordes, he's def not free, just his massive level 6 power spike with ult is a huge issue, early game mordes ult lasts far too long but it falls off late game as the duration doesn't scale with game length
Rewt1 votes2 things with this. While technically no he isnt free. I honestly think he is kind of nutty. Id like to see his Q damage reduced to groups, but increase the solo multiplier, this would put more of an emphasis on smart Q positioning. This could have unintended consequences, but id like to see where it takes the champ.
The ult falling off is a two fold issue. 1. yea.... the duration doesnt really scale all that well and so it stops being as impactful. 2 you cant ult the carry. cause if the carry has 2 functioning braincells left they should be able to figure out that a QSS is going to basically make morde ult irrelevant.
(not that many league players have 2 functioning braincells.... especially ADC players)
Xavanic1 votes2 things with this. While technically no he isnt free. I honestly think he is kind of nutty. Id like to see his Q damage reduced to groups, but increase the solo multiplier, this would put more of an emphasis on smart Q positioning. This could have unintended consequences, but id like to see where it takes the champ.
The ult falling off is a two fold issue. 1. yea.... the duration doesnt really scale all that well and so it stops being as impactful. 2 you cant ult the carry. cause if the carry has 2 functioning braincells left they should be able to figure out that a QSS is going to basically make morde ult irrelevant.
(not that many league players have 2 functioning braincells.... especially ADC players)
musixxal3 votesnah, if they are what you call "fair" then nah you're scale is already fucked up sideways and requires professional assistance. we cannot help you.
xDogMeatx1 votesnah, if they are what you call "fair" then nah you're scale is already fucked up sideways and requires professional assistance. we cannot help you.
tell me why do you think these are unfair then if you like to prove me wrong.
musixxal1 votestell me why do you think these are unfair then if you like to prove me wrong.
vlad is fair if you accept the presupposition that you are not going to interact with him. that's not really fair as a presup though and this is with the caveat that he is going to outscale you anyway. that aside i'm pretty sure morello said somewhere that if it were up to him vlad would never have made it to the live servers, i agree'd with him then i agree with him now still, his Q is simply not a workable spell at all, if the hemomancer concept must be retained then retain it i've aired my thoughts elsewhere on what skill element could be brought to his Q because as it is no matter how many times they make vlad have to stack it or whatever it is just not going to be fun or fair to play against a point and click spell.
same for morde his issue just isn't point and click in the traditional sense, his is stat check, and his manner of stat check where he just walks on his opponent is beyond ugly and obscene but we aren't actually supposed to talk about that one on honest terms cause he just got reworked. when he hits lvl 11, or probably more accurate lvl 10, even if you've outplayed him you will lose because of his W and passive being some of the worst additions of champion design to the game. and he gets rylais so he's now outscaled you regardless of your level and he can just walk on you while literally missing everything, this isn't even made up. before that point? sure he has to land his moves, but once he gets that item and lvl milestone there is no game to play against morde unless you just leave him alone somewhere and go destroy the rest of the map. or maybe he didn't take conqueror, that would be a good way to get the win against him, just incompetence on morde's part, which is now what i attribute my wins against this champion to.
Cind3rkick2 votes
TekkenPlayer2 votes
are relatively fair imo
Magi Mayvin2 votesXDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
xDogMeatx1 votes[{quoted}](name=deep space waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:32:57.794+0000)
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
tell me otherwise please.
Magi Mayvin2 votestell me otherwise please.
If you actually believe vladimir is a fair champion you deserve no real conversation with arguments, theres no hope left for you.
xDogMeatx2 votes[{quoted}](name=deep space waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:38:30.222+0000)
If you actually believe vladimir is a fair champion you deserve no real conversation with arguments, theres no hope left for you.
i really want to know why hes unfair compared to say jax/yasuo i mean jax has a great early so he shouldnt have a god late.
same goes for yasuo (main)
Magi Mayvin1 votesi really want to know why hes unfair compared to say jax/yasuo i mean jax has a great early so he shouldnt have a god late.
same goes for yasuo (main)
Who says there cant be more than 1 unfair champ,id rather lane against a yasuo instead of vlad though,at least yasuo is killable.Vlad is literally the same,has great early and god late where he instakills any champion whenever he feels like it.
xDogMeatx1 votes[{quoted}](name=deep space waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:50:23.351+0000)
Who says there cant be more than 1 unfair champ,id rather lane against a yasuo instead of vlad though,at least yasuo is killable.Vlad is literally the same,has great early and god late where he instakills any champion whenever he feels like it.
he has a resource meter that indicates his burst show me a surprising video that says otherwise.
Magi Mayvin1 voteshe has a resource meter that indicates his burst show me a surprising video that says otherwise.
yeah cool yasuo has a wind effect when his tornado is up,that doesnt make him balanced lmao.
xDogMeatx1 votes[{quoted}](name=deep space waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:55:30.848+0000)
yeah cool yasuo has a wind effect when his tornado is up,that doesnt make him balanced lmao.
yasuo can dash infinitely and he lowers its cd on attack speed theres no real counterplay to his ult if he q/es
Magi Mayvin1 votesyasuo can dash infinitely and he lowers its cd on attack speed theres no real counterplay to his ult if he q/es
Yeah ok tell me the counterplay to vlad's infinite sustain in laning phase and him instakilling any adc/non-tank support/mage late game.
xDogMeatx1 votes[{quoted}](name=deep space waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T02:37:10.277+0000)
Yeah ok tell me the counterplay to vlad's infinite sustain in laning phase and him instakilling any adc/non-tank support/mage late game.
early game he has barely any damage outside his empowered Q therefore you have to get in good damage if you can. late game it depends what kinda build he goes for/resists he has, regardless build some form of grievous wounds.
Magi Mayvin1 votesearly game he has barely any damage outside his empowered Q therefore you have to get in good damage if you can. late game it depends what kinda build he goes for/resists he has, regardless build some form of grievous wounds.
The damage isnt the problem in early game,he heals back everything and is really hard to catch or gank because of his w.So basically he gets a free laning phase against most matchups.Late game grevious wounds doesnt do shit, the main problem is his dmg and his w+zhonya+shit ton of mvoement speed from phase rush and spellbinder.
WoonStruck1 votes[{quoted}](name=deep space waifu,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iluby5Ek,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-03T01:50:23.351+0000)
Who says there cant be more than 1 unfair champ,id rather lane against a yasuo instead of vlad though,at least yasuo is killable.Vlad is literally the same,has great early and god late where he instakills any champion whenever he feels like it.
The only time vlad can insta-kill anyone without ult is if they're 100% glass cannon. People don't tend to build for the situation anymore so they're stupid enough to let themselves get 1 shot over and over, feeding him and making him seem even stronger.
If he's killing you by using his whole kit, he's no different from assassins or other mages, but low-range and completely immobile.
Magi Mayvin1 votesThe only time vlad can insta-kill anyone without ult is if they're 100% glass cannon. People don't tend to build for the situation anymore so they're stupid enough to let themselves get 1 shot over and over, feeding him and making him seem even stronger.
If he's killing you by using his whole kit, he's no different from assassins or other mages, but low-range and completely immobile.
by completely immobile i think you mean while being untargetable,having hecarim levels of movement speed from phase rush and spellbinder and also healing back to full from ult while being in zhonya and dealing 60-80% to everyone's hp bar while killing the one person he decides to q.
musixxal1 votesi really want to know why hes unfair compared to say jax/yasuo i mean jax has a great early so he shouldnt have a god late.
same goes for yasuo (main)
yasuo = dumb passive why that passive rito? come on cT you got better ones than that.
jax = fair, he's fair lol, really he is. maybe frustrating if you play an auto attacker but he's fair. if you play something immobile then you should have meaningful abilities to cast on him and he shouldn't like that. should he scale as hard as he does? probably not, but then again people generally give him too much respect in the early game and they dunno how to play around his passive or i suppose min/max with his passive in consideration so he ends up looking better than he is in the early game. the only objective issue with jax right now is his fusion with yuumi to be frank because she covers ALL of his weaknesses. he gets given a ranged ability (her Q) and real sustain that isn't item gated, but yuumi is the problem there not jaximus himself.
HateDaddy2 votesEverything is fair and balanced when it’s weak, and hella broken when it’s even the slightest bit viable
5or6stores1 votesVlad has manaless sustain and a complete "get out of jail free" card. Morde is fair, but only because his design is so basic and bland.
Most fair toplaners imo are 
. They all have abilities that can be avoided and meaningfully interacted with.
And here's where the downvotes come in: 
are fair champions with good counterplay.
xDogMeatx1 votesVlad has manaless sustain and a complete "get out of jail free" card. Morde is fair, but only because his design is so basic and bland.
Most fair toplaners imo are
fiora/irelia does too much damage what are you smoking. after like 3 hits its like half my hp gone after a vital or 2 with also her E.
irelia is a outplay machine where if you make one mistake she can 1000 buttons you to death where you feel like its pretty much you might as well afk.
vlad and morde dont have this 1000 buttons "outplay" feature instant kill button.