Oh look, the Cassiopeia thread disappeared again.

chumbler·Nov 14, 2014·18 votes·1,802 views

What a surprise.

PS Pro tip for anyone who wants to pick Cassiopeia until this trash rework gets reverted: Pick Zyra instead. She is better in literally every way.

40 Comments

FluppetsNov 14, 201412 votes

It did it's job.

There was news, so they pinned it to have a discussion (and not just whining like yours). The discussion ended. When there is news again I'm sure they will make a new Sticky so we can discuss those changes on a fresh thread.

It has no use and its counter-productive to leave that thread stickied for too long.

Fed by Snu SnuNov 14, 20141 votes

Counter-productive is making a discussion with no actual benevolent intent behind it, because someone is too stuck up that their rework is exactly what Cassiopeia should be and nothing else works into translating her fantasy into gameplay.

January 16thNov 14, 20147 votes

Cus man Cass was the biggest failed rework ever made. They should of did what they did to singed just some number changes no need for some jack ass new passive

CanastusNov 14, 20147 votes

At their current pace we won't even have a playable Cassiopeia once season 5 hits, this is simply unacceptable. They keep delaying her changes while giving us ridiculous excuses, this has to stop. The worst of all has to be this damn passive, though - it needs to go.

FluppetsNov 14, 20146 votes

This is exactly why the thread was unpinned, unless there was any actual news it would be just a circle-jerk of (granted, justified) negative comments.

Unlike in the past we KNOW they are working on it and Stashu's last post with actual updates (7 days ago) spoke about adding interesting mechanics to the Passive breakpoints (in the direction of the Lifesteal on E) rather than raw stats.

As to the delays and the "ridicilous" excuses; creating a game is a wildly complicated matter and "shit happens" alot.

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

He still never answered me, with the new updates to the passive, making it a 500 breakpoint for max. And you can only gain extra stacks off enemy champs. If your lane goes AFK you get shafted. This reworked passive is WORSE than the one we have on live.....

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

You've got 5 threads going with over 100 red posts between them

Ive been waiting 2 years for a fighter rework and still cant get a single goddamn reply about how hard Sion's passive was nerfed

I think youll manage

He still never answered me, with the new updates to the passive, making it a 500 breakpoint for max. And you can only gain extra stacks off enemy champs. If your lane goes AFK you get shafted. This reworked passive is WORSE than the one we have on live.....

If your lane goes afk you get shafted

You know except the part where you win a 4v5

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

4 v 4 since you will do nothing without full stacks.

It also makes it to where you can only play her in good matchups, pick a mid who roams against her, all of a sudden she can't gain stacks while the enemy mid is killing everyone since they are Akali, Fizz, Zed ETC.

It's a pretty big problem that it would take 50 minutes for Cass to passive generate her stacks. Against an AFK lane, OR, A roaming lane.

You don't play Cass so you could care less it seems, I don't play Sion

But imagine if they nerfed Sion's passive again, after it already isn't good.....Welcome to Cass life. Be happy your ok champion, (Already better than Cass) Isn't being nerfed more....

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

You don't play Cass so you could care less it seems, I don't play Sion

But imagine if they nerfed Sion's passive again, after it already isn't good.....Welcome to Cass life. Be happy your ok champion, (Already better than Cass) Isn't being nerfed more....

And youre getting plenty of iterations to have her fixed with stashu listening closely to feedback

When I pointed out to SG that stacking so much AS in Olafs kit was a retarded idea I was told to go fuck myself

Be thankful that you actually have a designer listening to you

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

The problem is that the designer isn't listening to us, he is hashing out half fixes instead of actually addressing any issues, and each half fix comes with a nerf.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

The problem is that the designer isn't listening to us, he is hashing out half fixes instead of actually addressing any issues, and each half fix comes with a nerf.

He's trying to balance Cass with a weaker early game because she was broken as fuck before (bugs not withstanding)

The only thing I don't agree with is non-linear scaling, both with Cass and with Garen arbitrarily spiking at certain points

It works with KZ/Vik because they unlock new mechanics instead of larger bricks to throw

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

Im fine with nerfing early game to have a powerful late, its the direction they went.

That does not explain why the passive, where you could get it at 25-30 minutes (which is getting late-game, when she should be getting full stacks) Is getting a nerf where you won't see full stacks until 35 ish. That amount of time difference is huge. Cass also has as low of a winrate pre-30 minute games as Urgot....It's Abysmal.

So your telling me, that the nerf to push her late game, even later, is justified? It doesn't nerf early game it just pushes back her gates to unreasonable levels.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

Im fine with nerfing early game to have a powerful late, its the direction they went.

That does not explain why the passive, where you could get it at 25-30 minutes (which is getting late-game, when she should be getting full stacks) Is getting a nerf where you won't see full stacks until 35 ish. That amount of time difference is huge. Cass also has as low of a winrate pre-30 minute games as Urgot....It's Abysmal.

So your telling me, that the nerf to push her late game, even later, is justified? It doesn't nerf early game it just pushes back her gates to unreasonable levels.

She hits max stacks when it's actually late game, as it should be

You don't hit late game at 3 items 25 minutes in

Stashu just made a change to have her reach each breakpoint even sooner as well

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

If you only become viable 40 minutes in, the champion is busted, PERIOD.

No, but ALL late game champs start being viable at that point in time, 2-3 item Trist, 2-3 item Udyr, 2-3 item YI. Late game champs cannot win games if they all have breakpoints after 35 minutes in the game.....

Stashu's latest change is what pushes the breakpoint BACK, unless ANOTHER PBE change has happened, which I haven't seen anywhere, since I am refering to his newest post, I believe you to be misinformed on this. (He raised the stacks to 500, removed stacking off minions, stacking off Twin fang hits on opponents as well.) You get 10 stacks a minute and stacks for poisoning enemy champs. Much Much slower.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

If you only become viable 40 minutes in, the champion is busted, PERIOD.

No, but ALL late game champs start being viable at that point in time, 2-3 item Trist, 2-3 item Udyr, 2-3 item YI. Late game champs cannot win games if they all have breakpoints after 35 minutes in the game.....

Stashu's latest change is what pushes the breakpoint BACK, unless ANOTHER PBE change has happened, which I haven't seen anywhere, since I am refering to his newest post, I believe you to be misinformed on this. (He raised the stacks to 500, removed stacking off minions, stacking off Twin fang hits on opponents as well.) You get 10 stacks a minute and stacks for poisoning enemy champs. Much Much slower.

She starts being viable at 2-3 items

Her LATE game is later on with 500 stacks and 4-5 items

Just like everyone else

And you should actually read his change before angrily flailing

Aspect of the Serpent No longer stacks on poisoned unit kill or on Twin Fang casts on enemy champions. Now, stacks once every 6 seconds (10 times per minute) and for every second that an enemy champion is poisoned. Stack breakpoints adjusted to 100 / 250 / 500. Overall, these are hit sooner than the old 75/200/400 based on the new mechanics, but are definitely still up for discussion.

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

OVERALL,

Later in the thread he did say he is refering to people hitting full stacks around the 35-40 minute mark.

A Cass player who knew how to use all the stacking options too full advantage would get full stacks at 26-30, which is where I was receiving full stacks (some players reporting as fast as 22). Overall about an 8 minute nerf. 8 minutes, long enough to lose baron, twice, long enough to lose the game at that point, and long enough to lose dragon, twice.

You should actually play Cass before trying to understand Cass.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

OVERALL,

Later in the thread he did say he is refering to people hitting full stacks around the 35-40 minute mark.

A Cass player who knew how to use all the stacking options too full advantage would get full stacks at 26-30, which is where I was receiving full stacks (some players reporting as fast as 22). Overall about an 8 minute nerf. 8 minutes, long enough to lose baron, twice, long enough to lose the game at that point, and long enough to lose dragon, twice.

Again you're assuming Cass does literally nothing until she has 500 stacks for some unknown reason

SolumindraNov 14, 20142 votes

Because her damage is garbage until full stacks. Her Ratios are abysmal because of her passive gates that she has to jump through. She has no mana early game for extended trades, much less if you get ganked, her ult is unreliable and they won't touch it.

so overall she is extremely weak , and not too valuable too her team, until full stacks. SO YES, she pretty much does nothing until full stacks.

yellowbricksNov 14, 20142 votes

"Broken as fuck"? So tell me how in the world did this broken as fuck champ slip under the rader for YEARS? I have seen no one complain about Cass, no one wanted her nerfed, but riot employees had a collective case of amnesia and decided randomly that Cass was toxic, and now everybody is just parroting their farce that Cass was broken as fuck.

Also there's a lot better ways of balancing a weaker early game than some shitty ass stack mechanic that is just a chore, but Stashu is just mindlessly clinging to this borefest for some reason. It boggles my mind that they were able to design so many other champs without some shoehorned ball of stats stackfest and yet no one.

And yes, her damage is gutted until she gets her stacks, that's the point of this passive, to chain down this so called broken as fuck champ in the early game with her neutered ratios until you unlock the shackles by poisioning enemy champs (?) or just sitting around in spawn playing a better video game for 50 minutes while it ticks up (???).

This rework is equivalent to smashing up a perfectly good house, rebuilding it with a shaky foundation due to rushing for some deadline (oh man Shurimasdfsdfsdfsfs), and then just doubling down on the stupidity by balancing a precarious Jenga-tower-ass house on top of the awful foundation without ever trying to fix anything that isn't just putting more Elmer's glue (after sniffing it of course) on everything.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

general screaming

I already know Id be wasting my time explaining why a huge lane bully that hyperscales is broken so Im not going to get into that (by the way she did have her fotm and got nerfed, then was left buggy and undertuned for a good reason)

A kit like Cass is difficult to tune because of her low CDs and scaling so he went with an artificial gate to keep her early game in check and is still tuning it

yellowbricksNov 14, 20141 votes

stuck up nonsense

This forum has such genius design that I clicked in the similar looking preview area and hit backspace and now I lost my 100 page scholarly report on this subject so instead I'm just going to laugh at your stuck up attitude and your "wasting my time" excuse when you just know it's gonna be such a flimsy case. If lane bully that hyperscales is broken, why are champs like Fizz, Lee Sin, Tristana, and many others running free?

You and I both know that the Cass scripters catalyzed this process, and Riot, instead of actually stopping the source (re-coding their legacy as shit and vulnerable code from back when they didn't hit it big, refer to the rework analogy last post, it applies to their code but on a much bigger scale), they just decide to hastily dumpster a good champ. Hopefully Lee Sin gets some sort of easy peasy win script (aside from setting your cat loose on the keyboard) so riot has to pull the trigger on their golden boy.

Also yeah, I can edit your quote like a smarmy dick too.

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 14, 20141 votes

.

Other champions being broken doesnt somehow excuse poor design

Trist got several nerfs and Im sure Fizz has his coming

Lee is Riot's poster child so youre out of luck there

chumblerNov 15, 20142 votes

general screaming

I already know Id be wasting my time explaining why a huge lane bully that hyperscales is broken so Im not going to get into that (by the way she did have her fotm and got nerfed, then was left buggy and undertuned for a good reason)

A kit like Cass is difficult to tune because of her low CDs and scaling so he went with an artificial gate to keep her early game in check and is still tuning it

Yeah, you'd be wasting your time because what you'd be arguing is flat out wrong. Congratulations being an idiot who laps up whatever Riot says. The rework is trash founded on a completely false premise, hth. They have no interest in actually producing a decent champion out of this. If they did, they would revert the rework.

"Cassiopeia was unbalanceable" is what is known as "A lie".

AHeroNamedHawkeNov 15, 20141 votes

Yeah, you'd be wasting your time because what you'd be arguing is flat out wrong. Congratulations being an idiot who laps up whatever Riot says. The rework is trash founded on a completely false premise, hth. They have no interest in actually producing a decent champion out of this. If they did, they would revert the rework.

"Cassiopeia was unbalanceable" is what is known as "A lie".

Again, not going to waste time arguing that hyperscaling lane bullies are a stupid design because literally everyone knows that

KellenGraceNov 14, 20147 votes

HAH.

FluppetsNov 14, 20142 votes

I am pro Cass, but upvoted for giggles :)

ChimeiTekinaNasuNov 14, 20146 votes

What a surprise.

That's real cute of you if you actually think it got deleted. There's a thousand Cassiopeia threads.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/zuL472BJ-cassiopeia-plans http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/2ExPaIic-about-cassiopeia-and-the-recent-pbe-changes

Then both are linked in this thread. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/1jXwf2BP-latest-on-cassiopeia Hey, look. Another freaking Cassiopeia thread. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/gFME3v51-on-the-future-of-cassiopeia-also-some-background aaaaand another http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/A9MgbKkB-riot-care-to-explain-why-youve-entirely-abandoned-cassiopeia-in-418?comment=0039 Which pretty much links to the "future of Cassiopeia thread".

"Deleted", he says. Sure. If that's what helps you sleep at night. 5 threads...about one champion...in one month. How about this. If 5 threads isn't enough for you to keep track of for one champion, I'll post here each Cassiopeia thread that appears every week.

yellowbricksNov 14, 20144 votes

I love that he keeps forgetting to put the cass stuff in the patch, so we get to wait another week (also laffo at the dude thinking they're taking this seriously). If this was riot's golden boy lee sin they'd hotfix that shit in and listen to every word of feedback. Meanwhile we still have to deal with a "fantasy" of stacking that is as boring as waiting at the DMV, I thought fantasies were supposed to be fun?

wolfaxNov 14, 20142 votes

Stuff not making it into the patch is usually because the changes aren't finished yet. Sure, they could ship what they have, but I bet you there's some issues that haven't been ironed out yet.

yellowbricksNov 14, 20142 votes

Stuff not making it into the patch is usually because the changes aren't finished yet. Sure, they could ship what they have, but I bet you there's some issues that haven't been ironed out yet.

Yeah there's definitely some issues. Namely that the passive hasn't been thrown in the trash heap of terrible ideas and replaced by something that isn't as boring as filing your taxes.

GorgannanNov 14, 20144 votes

Jesus. Dude, they're working on it. They're aware of your concerns. They've put more effort into her rework than 90% of reworks and they're still listening. Olaf players be damned. Quit acting so put upon, Cass players are getting a reputation as crybabies. Quit being selfish, she could be Olaf.

They're getting to it, please stop spamming the forums with endless "Riot isn't doing enough about Cass" threads. They're getting to it.

Grand ElevenNov 14, 20142 votes

Wait, wat?

Why did they do that? Yeah there were some bad posts mixed in but there were some very high quality debates as well ...

Killer X 12Nov 14, 20143 votes

Wait, wat?

Why did they do that? Yeah there were some bad posts mixed in but there were some very high quality debates as well ...

Lol not the first thing they deleted that they didn't like. I like to think there is someone in Riot that doesn't like that bullshit..but hey.

Also i think Syndra is actually a better pick for the same role. If you play syndra you can play cass, if you play cass you can play syndra. Well...actually, i guess that was more the old cass than the new cass, huh?

FluppetsNov 14, 20144 votes

Yeah, the same role... it's not like Syndra falls off late-game by design and Cassiopeia is a late-game Champion (and succesful at it) by design... Oh wait!

Cassiopeia had the (potentially) highest single-target DPS before the rework as well and even if you played Cass maxing Q, late-game the majority of your DPS would still come from E. The only thing holding her back were her bugs/QoL problems. If they had fixed those while keeping her kit the same she would have been wildly overpowered and if you dont understand that, you dont understand Cassiopeia.

Comments like these lower the standard of the conversation that people like Grand Eleven have helped raise.

**It is completely normal it is unpinned and has nothing to do with its content being Cassiopeia. **

ElphrihaimNov 14, 20142 votes

@ChimeiTekinaNasu: The thread HAS disappeared from hot/popular view-- and this isn't about the deletion... And the reason why there are so many threads on her is BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T PINNED.

@Fluppets: The discussion kept going-- and the purpose of the thread hasn't been lost yet-- leaving it pinned tells players that something is still important; that Cassiopeia is still being looked at. Even if the discussion had become stale and somewhat boring, the fact that the thread was pinned makes people that are worried feel better about it.

FluppetsNov 14, 20141 votes

When there are new changes she will get a fresh pinned thread.

ElphrihaimNov 14, 20141 votes

When there are new changes she will get a fresh pinned thread.

Yeah, this I get

I just think they should have left the old thread pinned is all

DayVGamingNov 14, 20142 votes

Every time I see a Cass in Ranked she does well and seems strong in team fights, I don't understand why these threads exist to begin with.

AFK PushNov 14, 20141 votes

If you go to websites like newsoflegends.com or surrenderat20.net then you will find what you want on cass. Apparently, she will not be ready for 4.20, but will be released in 4.21. This is not a bad thing, that just means that they are taking it much more seriously than most let up, and they want to take their time perfecting her.

QuephaNov 14, 20141 votes

because the changes won't hit the PBE for a while and there isn't much to discuss until people can try them. there's no point keeping the thread stickied until then.