People complaining bout champions getting buffed for E-sports.

ModAcademy Kayn··5 votes·927 views

The buffs aren't even that big.

Tf gets +5 Movement Akali gets -2 cd (18 now) on her shroud Nami gets -2 cd (12--8 now) Ezreal gets a flat 4.5 (probably the biggest buff out of all) Gangplank gets 15 more damage on passive. Ekko gets -2 CDs on Q at level 1, decently big

And then at the same time, just say "They don't need buffs", while showing no supporting evidence to why.

Source: Lolayltics

Ekko: 48% Nami: 49% Akali: 49% Gangplank: 49% (albeit weighed down by his mid winrate) Ezreal: 44% winrate (Though he's prob more similar to Naut's buffs than the others)

With the only reasonable complaint might be TF with 50% Winrate, but even then, is 5 MS really going to break someone? 2 seconds off a Utility spell is pretty decent, but is it really going to break them? Is Ekko getting a CD buff for early game alone, when half the kid's power is in his scalings, really going to push him over the edge?

Sure, maybe they don't need the buffs entirely, but also keep in mind this. Gragas, Elise, and Lee are also getting nerfs in the same patch. While you can argue "Oh just nerf them and don't buff the others", all that does is create three new Gragas, Elise, and Lee for the patch. By lowering by a few, and raising others a little as well, that's considered leveling the playing field.

And for those that say "The game shouldn't be balanced for E-sports", I would kindly like to remind you that this is not a new thing. Riot has done this before, and they're going to keep doing it. Why? To try to make E-sports more entertaining and diverse for those who like it and watch it. You are not the only people who play this game, and just because you don't like one aspect of a game doesn't mean others don't get to enjoy it.

It's a very selfish notion that others don't get to enjoy E-sports simply because you don't like it. This happens 2 out of the 12 months of the year, where they try to buff champs to diversify the pro-scene, so the E-sports crowd has their fun. While yes, nerfing champs for pro-play (Hello shen), happens nearly yearly, it's much less common when they try to add in diversity via specific champion buffs.

So chill. You're not the only one who plays this game. You're not the only person with an opinion that matters.

67 Comments

Breaku5 votes

Ezreal has needed buffs for a while now

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

Ezreal has needed buffs for a while now

why? he deals enough damage for a carry and scales well enough.

he just doesnt keep up in damage with the strongest carries. because

a) the strongest carries are bonkers and overtuned.

b) hes not supposed to considering how safe to play he is for a marksman.

Breaku1 votes

he's the lowest winrate adc atm and has been for months

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

he's the lowest winrate adc atm and has been for months

because he only plays against other adc and tends to lose lane or not scale as hard as them.

compared to the game overall, hes exactly where he should be. hes one of the easiest and safest to play marksmen possible.

the problem is certain adc like Caitlyn scaling far too well and dealing way too much sustained and burst damage. she should be where ezreal is right now in terms of scaling considering her range/safety and utility.

its champions like cait being way overtuned, not ezreal in need of buffs.

Breaku1 votes

lol what

when a champion is sitting in the bottom 10% of winrates for months, they don't need to be buffed?

Critmaster Garen4 votes

{quoted}

lol what

when a champion is sitting in the bottom 10% of winrates for months, they don't need to be buffed?

youre not asking why hes sitting there.

because at the end of the day, adc all do the same thing. ofc if ezreal is up against op shit like cait 90% of the time who has the same amount of mobility and utility, but higher range and more burst and lane presence overall while she scales harder into lategame, then ofc his winrate is shit. like they take the same spot on a team. if cait is gamebreaking op, ezreal is going to get pushed out.

thats why we never had more than 2 or 3 adc viable at the same time. its just a cycle that rotates through. if we were to buff all the marksmen that are the weakest at the time, wed end up the entire class completely broken in terms of overall game balance like a couple weeks ago.

why even pick him in that case, if you can pick actually broken marksmen?

if he werent just down in lane and outscaled by broken shits, he would do fine overall as a carry in terms of game balance as a whole.

ezreal doesnt need buffs. the other adc need nerfs. especially caitlyn should be just as "weak" as ezreal right now is in terms of scaling.

chipndip11 votes

You DO realize Ez has less than a 45% general win rate in high elo right? He's LEGIT shit.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

You DO realize Ez has less than a 45% general win rate in high elo right? He's LEGIT shit.

you do realize, that its the same fucking reason why he has low winrate?

cait and draven are broken at high elo, so every champion that walks into the same lane against these champions is going to have a low winrate.

adc always just push each other out of the meta depending on who the strongest of the group is.

right now, its twitch, cait, draven.

you nerf them or buff other adc, then the next 3 are going to take the slots for the 3 top adc. we had multiple phases where ezreal was one of them.

right now, considering how broken cait is and that adc are far from weak as a whole, we need cait nerfed and not other adc buffed.

chipndip12 votes

But it's never been this bad before. A 43% win rate (now 45% tbf) in Diamond means he loses to basically anything that's in the lane, meta pick or not. He's. Actually. Fucking. Garbage. Shifting the top tier doesn't bring up the bottom tier. Case in point: The top solo queue adc picks are shifting again, but Ez is STILL on a 45% Diamond win rate as of typing, making him the lowest win rate adc in the entire game, bar none. If you can't get it at this point, you never will. Being the lowest win rate champ in a lane is different from being one with a massive gap from the rest of the champ pool from that lane.

Critmaster Garen3 votes

{quoted}

But it's never been this bad before.

cait has never been this bad before either.

chipndip12 votes

You don't have a point. You're just bitching about top tier marksmen. Please don't troll me anymore.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

You don't have a point. You're just bitching about top tier marksmen. Please don't troll me anymore.

lmao. youve read my argument.

look up caits play rate and winrate. shes broken, and thats obvious.

only reason ez has a shit winrate because he has to compete with broken shit like her. thats literally it. nerf her dps below ez level and hes going to do fine.

edit.: nvm. this patch she actually lost in winrate. now its lethality adc like jhin that dumpster on ezreal.

and the adc tricycle continues. lol. like every single season the trinity of adc while all the other ones are "garbage".

Jmman1 votes

Why is when I quote fiddle 46% win rate people say he is fine but ez 45 means BUFFS ASAP.

chipndip11 votes
  1. People are stupid.

  2. Fiddle has no counter-play outside of warding beforehand and hoping he stands somewhere that's warded.

  3. Ez and Fiddle both need work.

Jmman1 votes

{quoted}

  1. Fiddle has no counter-play outside of warding beforehand and hoping he stands somewhere that's warded.

Dash, jump, flash, ward, stun, knock.... Any CC or movement will save you from the ult. Because fear lets the animation finish of whatever you cast. Ward will stop him from ulting. Without ult he is weak. Fiddle has ALOT of counter play. Plus they changed his crows to only hit you once unless drain is on you or no other target around. No counter play is like Chogath Sejuani

chipndip11 votes

All these things you can't do when he instantly pops up next to you and fears you, then silences you, while killing you with two DoT's? Do that to counter-play Fiddlesticks?

Jmman1 votes

LIER LIER pants on fire

Fear = 2.25 secs max silence = 1.25 secs

Ok he ults over the wall and fears you and start to drain. after 2.25 he stops his drain to silence you and miss the last 3 ticks. or lets you run away. PLUS the fear ran you away from him. This meaning that you are also out of ult range.

OK he fear drains and a magic crows flies from is @$$ to silence you all while still draining. 3.5 secs of ult and drain is 540 / 720 (last tick might hit as your running out of range). Ult does 975 / 1300. Now because ult the crow will only hit maybe two times because it kills the mobs around. 360 damage.

let put 400 ap into it.

1080 / 1260 drain 1515 / 1840 ult 720 crows

Next let apply MR. i'll do low mr and 45% reduction (boots or low MR item)

594 / 693 835 / 1012 396

So you took max 2101 damage with flash and all my spell (taking the fact you where too noobish to have ten, clease, click out, someone near by, flash, dash, jungle wards, immune, support shields, shield yourselves, barrier, MR, hp or cc)

Man that is like Fizz Brand Annie Chogath Ekko Elise Anivia Ahri Leblanc Lux Malzahar MissFortune Nasus Rengar Rumble Orianna Pantheon Syndra Taliyah Veigar Velkoz Zyra type of damage if they used all there spells... only fiddle has to be balls deep to do it without an escape.

kinda like you just making things up out of the blue. you know like man I was fear and silence all while he was draining me. Then immune and still kept the damage up.

And before you say he has more ap you really need to look at the items he has to build just to live.

Don't reply back to any of my posts

chipndip11 votes

Don't worry. You're dumb enough that I wouldn't wan to reply back to your posts. Ciao.

bàn5 votes

Muh win %'s and statistics. None of those champs needed buffs to begin with and esports sucks.

Angrychickén3 votes

Such argument, much wow.

Can you show me a reason why these champions don't need buffs?

And while esports may "suck" for you, some of us enjoy them. And trying to put some diversity into high elo games is always worthwile.

Jmman1 votes

You don't understand. How about we address the weaker never picked champs rather than the ones always there. This isn't diversity. This is the same champ pool being recycled. How you not see this.

Diversity is including the minority. Aatrox Amumu DrMundo Brand Evelynn Heimerdinger Fiddlesticks Jax Karthus Leona Kayle MasterYi Mordekaiser Morgana Nasus Quinn Pantheon Shaco Singed Sion Skarner Sona Soraka Swain Urgot Udyr Tryndamere Teemo Taric Talon Veigar Volibear MonkeyKing Xerath XinZhao Zilean Yorick How often are they picked. If they were picked one or twice they got destroyed.

ModAcademy Kayn2 votes

Aatrox is too easily countered for LCS, and needs gameplay changes. Buffing till Viable in LCS would break him in Casual. (Yi syndrome, let's call it) Amumu has been seen in LCS, I'm pretty damn sure. Mundo is binary and easily kited in LCS. (Also ala-Yi Syndrome) Pretty sure Brand has seen LCS play as well Eve is somewhere in a void we call "rework limbo" Heimer is Heimer, likely also Yi Syndrome. Fiddle sucks against teams who know how to ward. Yi syndrome. Jax is just weak, pretty sure, but tends on the stat checky side. Karthus is countered by people who know how to dodge. No mobility and CC makes easy ganks too Leona, not sure honestly. Yi, YI SYNDROME. Mordekaiser, is just in a bad place overall, needs rework. Morg, binary and easily countered. Nasus, binary and easily countered. (He's getting buffs this patch) Quinn, ennnnnnhh? Pantheon, great early game, sucks late. LCS knows how to turtle, and gank pantheon. Also Yi syndrome. Shaco, Yi syndrome. Singed, pretty sure he's also in LCS. Sion, Idk, would love more buffs for him. Skarner is also in rework limbo. Sona and Soraka, vulnerable to ganks, and are turtlers in an aggresive meta. Need more than small buffs to push into LCS Swain, pub stompy-ish, but countered by an item and teamwork. Urgot, getting reworked? Was picked against Zed back in Season 5. Udyr, getting small rework, might make him LCS worthy. Otherwise, no mobility save for running at people, resulting in Front lines countering him. Tryn is binary and easily countered. Teemo is binary and easily countered Taric has been picked in LCS pretty sure. Talon, is great early, falls off late, sucks against competent teams who can peel. Viegar, binary and easy to counter. Volibear, is trash in general ain't he? Wukong, I wouldn't know. Xerath, vulnerable to ganks. Xin, binary and easy to counter. Zilean, binary and easy to counter. Yorick, who? (falls off late, sucks without graves)

The champions you listed have problems that can't be solved with a tiny buff, and need a lot more work to push them into LCS. Several suffer from Yi-syndrome, lots are extremely vulnerable to ganks as those are extremely deadly in LCS, several need reworks to fix gameplay issues that keep em weak, several are just easily countered, and plenty don't do their job well enough against a coordinated team.

BabyNaix1 votes

What is the yi syndrome you speak of? Feast or famine? Low mechanics? Good if on the other team bad if on your team? Good in bronze bad in diamond?

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

If made Viable in Higher Elo, or LCS in this case, he would become overpowered in Lower Elos, who don't understand how to beat the champion like higher elo does.

Jmman1 votes

right this is your opinion. Meta champs are toxic in low levels too. Your just don't want diversity. Its hard to play and would lower the top players down if it happened. This is the true reason people don't want balance. It might make them worst if others are better.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

Most "meta" champs aren't actually all that toxic in low levels. Some meta champions are, but those are the ones that are generally picked just on pure power level (i.e. Fiora). Something like Gragas or Elise are pretty fine in low levels, because teams lack the coordination to unlock their full potential. People like to complain about Lee Sin, but honestly, at bronze and silver levels, he's really not that bad because most Lees just aren't very good.

And you really want to tell me that if they made, lets say Fiddlesticks, strong enough to see pro play, that the pros couldn't handle it? They would look like fools because they couldn't adjust to Fiddles being strong? The best players in the world couldn't figure out how to play around different champions?

Okay.

Jmman1 votes

No I'm saying you and the above poster couldn't. I'm saying the meta champs you named are strong because it take a group effect to stop them. With a small lead Ahri Ekko Elise Darius Chogath Gragas Gnar Galio Fizz FioraRenekton Orianna Sejuani Syndra Vladimir Zac they will become monsters and wipe the team. Because there is no team play. The difference is they don't really need the ult to noob stomp. Fiddle can only do it with his ult. These do it with there kit.

WTF how can you event say fiddle would be worst than this. Even buffed its because of no vision or getting caught.

Oh and undoing the fear nerf, letting crow bounce off him WONT make his max damage do anymore.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

Don't get hung up on the fact I randomly picked Fiddlesticks. I literally just picked a non-meta champ at random.

And Fiddles may have been a bad choice. I do think he needs some buffs right now. But not enough that he sees pro play. Not every champion is going to see pro play. Nor should they.

My point is, if Fiddles were buffed enough to see regular pro-play, he would definitely be more of an issue than most of those champions. Because he's so easily shut down by good vision and map awareness, for pros to want to use him, he would have to be SUPER powerful. Taken down to low elos where map awareness is sketchy at best, and about half the supports don't even want to buy a sightstone, he would DESTROY just about every game just by himself.

Jmman1 votes

See why do you think damage is the only way to help the champ? Letting bats bounce off him won't increase his max damage. Making fear stop the champ from moving and cowling in place won't increase his damage. Make drain do less damage but being able to tender it would lower his damage. Make his ult castable on other with lower damage would lower his output damage. Change his fear to a skill shot with damage. (this would increase damage but move fear to skill shot)

These are just some ideas that would make him have a better kit and not increase his damage.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

The issue with most of those champions is that they just don't work in professional play unless they are REALLY powerful. They just don't offer enough of what the pros are looking for, and if you buff them enough that the pros have a reason to overlook their weaknesses, you create huge issues in casual play.

Jmman1 votes

So you agree with me and we should work on them and their kits.

K

Thanks

edit funny because everyone I know COMPLAINS ABOUT META CHAMPS IN CASUAL. and the only issue is RITO is a lazy pos company.

Nik Nikerson1 votes

No. Because most of those kits are perfectly fine for regular play.

And a lot of people complain about a lot of shit. It doesn't make them right. Personally I bitch every time I see Trynd in my lane. That doesn't mean he needs to be radically changed.

Jmman1 votes

But to see pro play he would need a change. This would make you and the trynd mains happy. I guess some people just like being mad/angry???? So why should Rito leave champs in the Competitive game if they are as you deem not Competitive?

Nik Nikerson1 votes

There is a difference between competitive, and competitive at the pro level. The pros basically play a different game than most people. The strategies they use are just different from what you get at low elo. There are plenty of viable solo queue champions, that just aren't going to see pro play because they don't fit into what the pros want to do. And that's fine.

You will never, ever, ever manage to make every champion viable for pro play. It's literally impossible. There are just always going to be champions that work better with the pro-style of play. If you try and give every champion the tools required to be played at the pro level, then you create a situation where no champion is unique, and there's very little behind champion selection other than stat checks.

Jmman1 votes

That is your personal opinion man. I know you don't understand the difference between opinion and theory.

Long ago cave man said we shouldn't try to farm because is was too hard. Lol don't wright brothers what is that thing. The moon that is crazy talk

People like you are afraid of change and to trying things. Sure there might be some failures along the way but why shouldn't we try. Oh because it doesn't effect you atm. Sure I can balance them out. Why do I know because its a math game. you can assign value to everything. Problem is that isn't an amount to stuns, %damage, mobility and factors like this. If you gave a value to everything it can be easier to balance. I know DONT do this because how champs get over loaded kits. You talking to an account/anaylsis sayings things can't be balance is laughable. Because I know stats. How do you think research is done. How do you think they compare elements, plot charts.... they assign values to different things to form a relation that then can be measured.

If you are in college or out you need your money back for real... that or our country is doomed in a few years. "feelings" or "big lcs plays" DONT count in stats because those aren't tangible. Stuns are because then you can farther value them by there duration. Sure everything wont be prefect and you might have to adjust value to be agile. But what if I told you Ghostcrawler has a Biology degree. You have a bunch of Art majors not being able to balance pro scene..... OF COURSE THEY CAN'T. Get Math/Accounting/Stat majors.

/end of rant

Jmman3 votes

still waiting on the buff for Fiddlesticks 46% win rate and less than 1% playrate. meaning mains are having a hard time winning and I'm selfish for champs that always have play or picked in pros that needed buffs. Well crap how selfish of me. I should just do everything you want to do.

dnsup1 votes

{quoted}

Well crap how selfish of me. I should just do everything you want to do.

That's basically what posts like this are saying. "Here's my opinion, it's the only one that matters, and I feel confident that Riot agrees with me." They're vocal, but they're definitely not the majority of the playerbase. And they tend to come from players who for some reason think the e-sports scene needs them to defend it. (If that were true, then it would imply the weakness of the venture).

Jmman1 votes

Its about some champs that really need help to be competitive. And instead the are moving competitive ones to pro play. This will make the gap larger between the Have and have nots. Rito is hurting their game by not addressing the low played champs. Because there is a reason they are low played. most of the time is because they are weaker.

dnsup1 votes

Agreed, agreed, but Riot is actually somewhat more interested in e-sports than it is in "normal players," because e-sports present a revenue stream that is, in a sense, easier for them. (They take on little risk in it, relative to parties more directly involved--e.g., the players; also relative to their investment in their product, LoL, which will remain profitable if it continues its current course--as far as anyone knows at this point).

Again, I'm not advocating anything. I would rather the game were more fun for the people playing it (of which I'm sometimes one). Anything I say about it is mostly speculation on Riot.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

That's not what the post is about. If you're complaining that Riot is slow to buff something weak, that's nothing new either.

Jmman1 votes

sure it is. Rito is picking what champs should be in the meta and pro. While not looking at the weaker ones. They are playing favorites.

Your telling me to chill because they are balancing pro. Well way wasn't my champ "balanced" for pros?

Mig891 votes

Part of what he is saying is some champs get buffed for esports, yes, but you cant do the same for all champions. If they buffed Garen, katarina, yi, etc to be viable in LCS, they would completely dominate any games below plat. Some champs arent meant to be viable as their kits stand.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Part of what he is saying is some champs get buffed for esports, yes, but you cant do the same for all champions. If they buffed Garen, katarina, yi, etc to be viable in LCS, they would completely dominate any games below plat. Some champs arent meant to be viable as their kits stand.

this isnt even true for garen anymore.

in KR he has a higher winrate at plat than in bronze.

Big Lincoln1 votes

doesn't even have a positive winrate in bronze half the time lol

garen's noob-stomp nature is really overrated now

Jmman1 votes

I want the to fix it. Your sayings its ok because your champ is all good.

I don't like laziness and that is what is going on with champ balance. But if someone is bad does it really matter the champ?

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

What champions you talking about in particular. There are a lot of champions who can't be made Viable in LCS due to their pub stompy nature in low elo.

Jmman1 votes

That is just laziness if there kit is broken then fix it.

But if someone it bad does it really matter the champ that stomps them?

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Fixing takes time, which can be variable. It also depends on the nature of the kit's problem. Is it their playstyle, or an ability? Is it simply because they're weak, or are they too vulnerable to X champion/mechanic of the game? It's really not as simple to just say "fix it".

But if someone it bad does it really matter the champ that stomps them

I don't know what this means. Also, if you're talking about Fiddle not being relevant in LCS, he too has Yi syndrome. Since Fiddle sucks against teams who know how to ward and not pick fights blindly, Fiddle has a harder time. To buff him to viability in LCS would result in him being broken in casual.

Jmman1 votes

there is only one game with different game play. Your an idiot if you think Fiddlesticks does worst noob stomping than Ekko Fizz Fiora Syndra Sejuani Zac Orianna Gragas Gnar

you could double fiddles spells to 90% ap and he still wouldn't be as bad as the above. Because fiddle has weakness. Meta champs really don't.

Fiddle was fine til the nerf the crows and fear. Nether where game breakings as you say.

Your name should be DR. Meta

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