Riot so are you really not going to do anything about Fiora?
Seriously? Because I see her banned in more games than yasuo and unlike yasuo, who's just a broken mess of a champion, fiora is legitimately busted.
54 Comments
Joxcab6 votesShe isn't the problem.
AirKingNeo3 votesHow is she not the problem? She's been broken for a year now.
The AD ratio on her passive is insane.
Ryrynounet2 voteswould u better want the old fiora back with tiny ratio but insane base stats from his passive ? allowing her to build as a cancerous tank ?
LiveYiOrDieHard1 voteswould u better want the old fiora back with tiny ratio but insane base stats from his passive ? allowing her to build as a cancerous tank ?
Old Fiora was less cancerous than new Fiora. Riot does this shit consistently with champion reworks. It's pathetic.
Joxcab1 votesWhat you just said automatically throws any credibility/reason to listen to you further out the window.
Old Fiora was nothing but splitpush 24/7 after laning phase because she was goddamn useless garbage in a teamfight in early.
She'd splitpush endlessly ignoring literally everything else, farming up a huge bag of gold in the mean time.
Then she wanders over to the teamfight, presses R, murders just about everyone while being untargetable, then cleans up any stragglers with her E resets.
Old Fiora was practically an epitome of unhealthiness.
AirKingNeo1 votesSounds like New Fiora, except healing instead of untargetable.
Joxcab1 votesYeah and the fact she has to work for the healing which is meant for teamfights which by the way, she is STILL not good at, but the ultimate gives her incentive to at least try now, instead of just pressing a button but hey who cares about that.
LiveYiOrDieHard1 votesWhat you just said automatically throws any credibility/reason to listen to you further out the window.
Old Fiora was nothing but splitpush 24/7 after laning phase because she was goddamn useless garbage in a teamfight in early.
She'd splitpush endlessly ignoring literally everything else, farming up a huge bag of gold in the mean time.
Then she wanders over to the teamfight, presses R, murders just about everyone while being untargetable, then cleans up any stragglers with her E resets.
Old Fiora was practically an epitome of unhealthiness.
Actually she wasn't that great at split pushing. She was a strong duelist and could obviously push towers fairly fast, but unlike true split push champs like tryndamere or Yi, she had absolutely no escape or defense skills so you had to always make sure you didn't get caught in a fight you couldn't win because your choices were A) win the fight or B) die.
But I digress. I admit she was unhealthy before, and knew the rework would come eventually because of it... but her rework is even worse. Old Fiora at least had clear weaknesses. New Fiora is just another in a long line of overly-mobile do-it-all champions Riot keeps releasing that continue to push old champions further and further out of viability.
AirKingNeo1 votesOr just not buff her base stats and just nerf her passive ratio form 4.5% per 100 AD to 3% per 100 AD.
Her tank build doesn't get better. Only her damage gets nerfed.
Joxcab1 votesBut her damage build is just fine and tank build is trash.
AirKingNeo1 votesThen why is her playrate has been VERY HIGH for 6 months.
Joxcab1 votesBecause being strong and being broken is different?
You can be a strong toplaner in the game, but that doesn't mean much when other toplaners are either extremely old and outdated, or not meant to beat a duelist in lane because of their other strengths.
AirKingNeo1 votesHighest playrate
High winrate
That equals broken. Another example: Pantheon.
Joxcab2 votesNo, she hasn't?
And... it's bonus AD and does less than an autoattack in early...
Which is why Fiora goes full AD/lifesteal glass cannon...
Which is why CC (which stops her from lifestealing) and Grievous Wounds (which reduces the healing altogether) horribly hurts her...
As does teamwork...
Which is why she's been statistically fine in both solo queue and pro play for pretty much her entire history post-rework (after the initial fixes, because pretty much no rework ever gets anything right immediately, but you get my point).
It's almost like if people stopped being fucking idiots and would stop trying to 1v1 the duelist when they're either, one, playing an extremely old champion that can't keep up with the meta anyways regardless of Fiora or not, or two, playing a champion that isn't good at 1v1s in the first place, they'd do a bit better.
Gee whiz, I sure wonder why she's doing fine statistically in high ELOs. It sure couldn't be that gee, maybe, just maybe, they know how to counterbuild and how not to pick fucking idiotic fights and use teamwork more consistently than lower ELOs, wow.
I mean I could mock you by pointing out how Warwick who is perfectly balanced as well, has both a higher winrate, higher number of games played, and higher average KDR for your ELO than Fiora does.
Or the fact that champions like Taliyah, Ashe, Sona, etc pretty much have the same number of games total as Fiora does in Challenger, while all maintaining higher winrates than her by large margins.
Hmmm...
Asayake 5150glow1 votesNo, she hasn't?
And... it's bonus AD and does less than an autoattack in early...
Which is why Fiora goes full AD/lifesteal glass cannon...
Erh.. as someone who's second main is Fiora, that's actually not true.
Generally you go triple damage (double lifesteal + BC) into 2 tank items, or GA/Maw, with defensive boots.
It's still squishy for someone with shit gapclosers like Fiora (think of her as a more mobile juggernaut, but for every bit of mobility she gets, she pays for in tank stats).
Which is why CC (which stops her from lifestealing) and Grievous Wounds (which reduces the healing altogether) horribly hurts her...
As does teamwork...
No - well, yes, but CC hurts everyone. More accurately, PEEL hurts her, as she has a very hard time reaching the back line if the front line peels properly, much harder than other skirmishers or divers.
Which is why she's been statistically fine in both solo queue and pro play for pretty much her entire history post-rework (after the initial fixes, because pretty much no rework ever gets anything right immediately, but you get my point).
It's almost like if people stopped being fucking idiots and would stop trying to 1v1 the duelist when they're either, one, playing an extremely old champion that can't keep up with the meta anyways regardless of Fiora or not, or two, playing a champion that isn't good at 1v1s in the first place, they'd do a bit better.
Also Fiora pretty much counters and outscales all juggernauts besides Nasus, so there's that :/
I mean she counters them because her mobility makes it incredibly easy for her to outplay Darius and Illaoi, she heavily counters Morde due to her W block and attack speed slow (Morde should die before he gets full use out of his Q), and the other juggernauts have decent teamfighting.
Gee whiz, I sure wonder why she's doing fine statistically in high ELOs. It sure couldn't be that gee, maybe, just maybe, they know how to counterbuild and how not to pick fucking idiotic fights and use teamwork more consistently than lower ELOs, wow.
Counterbuilding a Fiora is with glass cannon damage items. Works best with Jayce, Riven, Renekton, etc.
Counterplaying a Riven is by going standard bruiser/tanky items, and then forcing her into teamfights instead of duels/skirmishes.
I mean I could mock you by pointing out how Warwick who is perfectly balanced as well, has both a higher winrate, higher number of games played, and higher average KDR for your ELO than Fiora does.
I hate Warwick. Personally.
AirKingNeo1 votesWhich is why she's been statistically fine in both solo queue and pro play for pretty much her entire history post-rework (after the initial fixes, because pretty much no rework ever gets anything right immediately, but you get my point).
Held one of the highest playrate to winrate ratios for a year now in high elo. Your statement is clearly faulty.
Gee whiz, I sure wonder why she's doing fine statistically in high ELOs. It sure couldn't be that gee, maybe, just maybe, they know how to counterbuild and how not to pick fucking idiotic fights and use teamwork more consistently than lower ELOs, wow.
GEE, I COULD ONLY WONDER WHY EVERYONE ABOVE DIAMOND FOUR THINKS FIORA IS EXTREMELY BROKEN. I have no idea why you can't fathom the concept, but do understand that what you're saying is wrong. Challenger only statistics don't matter. Warwick doesn't have a high as playrate to winrate ratio as Fiora.
Seriously, there's a reason people think she's broken and it isn't because shes "annoying", otherwise you wouldn't have the entire high elo community be asking for nerfs.
Joxcab1 votesHigh pickrate with a balanced winrate isn't a problem. So..
Because they don't? Nowhere even close?
Oh boy, he told me I was wrong and I need to understand that, marvelous! How incredibly productive!
He actually does, if you check Warwick's statistics for Gold (in the statistics tab). Higher games played, higher winrate, and higher KDR average.
Sort of like the reason people whine Yasuo's broken when he isn't? Because he's annoying and oppressive?
AirKingNeo2 votesHighest pickrate and good winrate usually, if not always, means overpowered.
Most players think Fiora is broken, hence her rising and high banrate.
https://na.op.gg/champion/fiora/statistics/top vs https://na.op.gg/champion/warwick/statistics/jungle
1 playrate (~17%), vs 14 playrate (~4%). 13 winrate (~51%) vs 9 winrate (~52%). 45% banrate on Fiora vs LESS THAN ONE PERCENT ban rate on Warwick.
Funny, Yasuo doesn't have highest playrate or a high ban rate.
Seriously, at least don't make up false statistics.
Joxcab1 votesAre you legitimately stupid or are you just trolling, or do you just lack any sort of meaningful reading comprehension whatsoever?
When I was making the point about Warwick, I was saying I COULD have mocked you over it because the statistics in YOUR ELO AS GOLD are better than Fiora's in every single way. But that's irrelevant so I didn't bother.
You're looking at the Plat+ average for the entire patch.
I'm talking about the Gold overall combined data for the last month.
https://puu.sh/wo2CC/eb3a198d3a.png https://puu.sh/wo2CW/1791f38705.png
Why are you even fussing so much over an extremely minor jab that wasn't even a point in my overall argument when you can't even read properly?
AirKingNeo1 votesGold elo doesn't mean much when it comes to balance due to it's lack of quality players. I have no idea why you're trying to argue for gold elo when I simply don't give a damn shit about gold alone. Fiora is overpowered and it's been proven.
Jorencice1 votesWait she only has a 52% winrate... lawl.
The way you were going on and on and on about "EXTREMELY OVER POWERED GARBAGE" I was positive it was at least a 55% winrate.
AirKingNeo1 votesShe also has the highest pickrate. Stop using specific statistics while ignoring others.
Jorencice1 votesI don't care if she had a 100% pickrate. 52% isn't overpowered.
Get back to me when it starts reaching 60% like reworked kogmaw.
AirKingNeo1 votesKog never reached 60%. He sat around 53-55% with a drastically climbing pickrate.
AirKingNeo1 votesHow is she not a problem when most of high elo thinks she is? You know, people above diamond 4.
Joxcab2 votesBecause you don't have any actual valid "most" statistic? A few people here and there saying it means next to nothing. And she's statistically fine regardless of how people complain, so.
AirKingNeo1 votesJoxcab1 votesThat is statistically fine.
She has a high pickrate because she's strong, but an average/balanced winrate because she is balanced regardless and is high skillcurve.
Ahristocats3 votesthe fact that she is a high skillcurve is a problem
fiora has 60% ban rate atm which deflate her win rate she gets to have regardless 51.5% win rate+12% pick rate while being a high skillcurve champ
she has 50% win rate at min 1 for being a hyper carry scaling to 58% win rate in alte game
pro play showed that there are no reasons to pick a melee champion over fiora except those who aren't really melee like rumble and those who are going full utility like galio this isn't balanced
AirKingNeo1 votesHigh pickrate for 6 months straight.
Decent-good winrate.
Highest ban rate currently.
And no, high skillcap doesn't equal balanced at all. Kalista is not balanced. Azir is not balanced. Riven is not balanced, but that's for other reasons (Death's Dance).
SquashCannon3 votesI am so balanced. So balanced. you want to 1v1 me? no problem. I dash around you million damage
EDIT
For those who dont get the reference watch tobias
Phyuq Yiu1 votesIf I'm going top I ban that shit, if that means Wind Man sneaks thru the ban phase then I dodge. How to climb Step 1. Don't play vs the broken shit, even if you can handle it.. can your entire team handle it when it roams and teamfights?
SquashCannon2 votesIf I'm going top I ban that shit, if that means Wind Man sneaks thru the ban phase then I dodge. How to climb Step 1. Don't play vs the broken shit, even if you can handle it.. can your entire team handle it when it roams and teamfights?
Yasuo is free food. My ban order is riven, fiora, then no one cuz those are the only two assholes I hate
AirKingNeo1 votesFunny, those are pick ban unlike Yasuo.
Big Lincoln2 votesthey're probably figuring out how to nerf her
SquashCannon3 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iW1nnb18,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-18T19:04:43.858+0000)
they're probably figuring out how to nerf her
Then they need way too much time to deliberate. Shes been an issue for multiple patches now
GULAG 4 U1 votesSo you'd rather have a rushed change that will end up being shit and will need further work than one that will solve problems for a long time?
Having patience is a virtue they say. Apparently it's because most people don't have it.
Corriandr1 votesRiot said they believe the problem is her current counters are weak. I'm not sure if they view her as too strong as things only truly became an issue after the AD item buffs (and so did several other champions), so she may be working as intended. Currently I'm expecting to see buffs to her counters (which are comprised of champions that had been nerfed in the past) or nerfs to items such as Death's Dance, which I believe Riot admitted to saying might be too strong. Another possibility - and one thing i think would be reasonable - might be reducing the damage of her early Q's - probably to somewhere between where it is now and where it was post her release nerfs.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesRiot said they believe the problem is her current counters are weak. I'm not sure if they view her as too strong as things only truly became an issue after the AD item buffs (and so did several other champions), so she may be working as intended. Currently I'm expecting to see buffs to her counters (which are comprised of champions that had been nerfed in the past) or nerfs to items such as Death's Dance, which I believe Riot admitted to saying might be too strong. Another possibility - and one thing i think would be reasonable - might be reducing the damage of her early Q's - probably to somewhere between where it is now and where it was post her release nerfs.
Wut Pantheon is OP tho
Also her early Q's do very little damage as is 0_o 60% bonus AD + 30 base damage isn't very noticeable at rank 1.
Corriandr1 votesPantheon is one champion, and his play style is so binary it can be dealt with pretty decently.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesPantheon is one champion, and his play style is so binary it can be dealt with pretty decently.
Binary or not, Pantheon stomps the ever living shit out of Fiora.
If those games are lost, it's not because Fiora beat Panth, it's because Panth didn't snowball his team hard enough.
Corriandr1 votesI do not deny that Pantheon
is Fiora's
hardest (lane)counter - what I am saying is that he is only one of the champions that counters her, but her other counters had been nerfed sufficiently in the past before the Tank nerf/AD buff that they are not countering as hard as they could be due to them being in bad spots. As such, Fiora counters harder than she gets countered.
Asayake 5150glow1 votesI do not deny that Pantheon
But... Fiora only counters low-medium damage tanks and subpar duelists....
Most bruiser/divers can go head to head with her early game, and then can usually snowball to keep up mid-lategame. High damage tanks will simply ruin her day (Poppy, mainly).
Corriandr1 votesWhat I am saying is that most of the champions that do "counter" her are not in a good spot right now, as such they are not often picked and, when they do get picked, aren't performing as well as they should be in lane against her. This gives the feeling of her being a stronger laner than she is as when she counters in lane it is HARD counter, but when she gets countered in lane it performs as a SOFT counter ( is the exception). This may be why we are seeing such things as Poppy, Maokai, and Trundle buffs beginning to crop up. Riot's statement at the start of this cycle makes me believe that she is working as intended, but her counters are currently weak. I'm expecting to see more buffs to those particular champions coming, and quite possibly little to no nerfs to Fiora. That, or such items as Death's Dance will get hit (which would be an effective nerf to her, and possibly the best way to do it, imo).
Asayake 5150glow1 votesWhat I am saying is that most of the champions that do "counter" her are not in a good spot right now, as such they are not often picked and, when they do get picked, aren't performing as well as they should be in lane against her. This gives the feeling of her being a stronger laner than she is as when she counters in lane it is HARD counter, but when she gets countered in lane it performs as a SOFT counter (
That's only slightly true.
Her counters who fall off as mid-late game come indeed only soft counter her, as they'll no longer be able to 1v1 her (despite still being a better teamfighter) and don't feel like they counter as hard. But many of her counters retain the ability to duel Fiora mid-lategame if even slightly ahead, meaning Fiora is basically useless as she can't splitpush (and being Fiora, she can't teamfight).
On the other hand, if Fiora counters someone, they'll still be useful mid-late game, in teamfights. It's just a matter of surviving until then, which can be difficult, or easy, depending on the champion.
OP Garen Support1 votesJust remove her W (built in
that can drain abilities) and give her something else. Originally she was "The grand duelist" against auto based melee champions. Now she can beat almost every champion but other broken unfair unfun champs. 
Riot knew that his old R was unskilled so they made her R skilled and every other ability unskilled.
Escheton1 votesBoth yasuo and fiora can be shut down with a heavy armor runepage and 
. They need kills to get going. Turning it into a farm lane instead sets them back sooo much.
Rainfall1 votesi will agree with the other guy fiora is not the problem,without sunfire cape tanks just cant fight her.
GULAG 4 U1 votesNerf appear instantly on the PBE, DAE ?????? XDDDD??
HellSingsDOG1 votesI like how the fiora mains came by and down voted people =')
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