New conqueror needs to be melee only
Its going to be batshit overpowered on mages, please dont make the strongest class in the game even stronger.
Its going to be batshit overpowered on mages, please dont make the strongest class in the game even stronger.
Everything should be melee only. Ranged champions can only buy support items and Runaans
too much, make support items melee only too and make runaans ranged only AND melee only so nobody can buy it, I think that is a fair trade-off
WoW. You wouldn't even give us wards and pots... Well I play in Silver so really we would miss just the pots. EDIT: Now that I think of it support items would give us wards. So I guess just pots for everyone. Sounds fair this way.
Honestly the only mages who is going to be problematic with it are Cassiopeia and maybe Ryze/Zyra. All the other mages are going to have a pretty rough time stacking it up to the necessary threshold as they're so reliant on landing skill shots and have cooldowns longer than 3 seconds in which the stacks will reset. Even if they do get up to max stacks, they likely have run out of abilities of which they can use the Conqueror bonuses with.
Honestly the only mages who is going to be problematic with it are Cassiopeia and maybe Ryze/Zyra. All the other mages are going to have a pretty rough time stacking it up to the necessary threshold as they're so reliant on landing skill shots and have cooldowns longer than 3 seconds in which the stacks will reset. Even if they do get up to max stacks, they likely have run out of abilities of which they can use the Conqueror bonuses with.
I can see it being strong on on-hit mages who stack attack speed like
but yea other than her and the others you mentioned, really isn't to many mages who can abuse it outside of other mages that can maybe go on-hit/attack speed like
.
Also I am curious how
works with it, because if it does work with his Soldiers then that could be one of the biggest abusers.
Kayle's not really a mage and Azir might be scary as Hell with it if his soldiers apply the stacks. The only issue will be how hard Azir is to play meaning I doubt he'll be as powerful as some of the easier champions that can make use of the ability.
Kayle may not be a traditional mage but she scales pretty strongly with AP items and on hit items due to her ranged AA splash damage. She will be extremely problematic with this rune...
You do realize mages can AND will autoattack to keep the stacks up?
You do realize mages can AND will autoattack to keep the stacks up?
Good joke. Keep telling yourself that some more. Mages wont use new conqueror. It is bad early game, it is bad late game.
New conq is good for those who can use it.
[{quoted}](name=Bears Dont Care,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iUs5UqW9,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2019-02-13T09:13:47.563+0000)
Good joke. Keep telling yourself that some more. Mages wont use new conqueror. It is bad early game, it is bad late game.
New conq is good for those who can use it.
Still a good rune for those who brings mages to Top lane against a bunch of melee bruisers.
You have clearly missed the video about Conqueror Ryze. Look what conqueror made to Ryze's "supposedly horrible" early game. I am not even going to talk about his late.
You have clearly missed the video about Conqueror Ryze. Look what conqueror made to Ryze's "supposedly horrible" early game. I am not even going to talk about his late.
Mages is plural. Ryze is a singular champion and does not represent the entire class.
I get you guys like mages, and therefore are extremely biased and won't accept reality; so, proceed to live in your own biased illusions. I like mages too and play them in some of my games, but I am capable of understanding things.
You are unable to get out of your world, lying to yourself, saying ''mages are plural.'' We all know that conqueror is going to break the balance of a lot of mages, you are just unable to accept it. Go ahead and look for other mages using Conqueror right now in twitch or youtube gameplays and be prepared, because you will have to lie to yourself again. I wonder what would you make up to convince yourself about this change being balanced on mages. Face Reality.
I get you guys like mages,
I primarily player bruisers and assassins.
and therefore are extremely biased and won't accept reality;
Sounds like an ad hominem founded on nothing.
so, proceed to live in your own biased illusions.
When we look in the mirror we do not like what we see, so we transpose it upon others to avoid the truth of the matter. I understand it is a painful thing to have others not support you in your cause. That it creates intense feelings of loneliness, particularly in this age of technology where you can have 1000 friends on facebook. Life is about disagreement, and you should come to respect these differences rather than seek to alienate others.
The interesting fact is that I mostly play AP champions and some of those mages, but that doesn't mean that I would defend the class about something that clearly represents a threat to current balance.
"When we look in the mirror we do not like what we see, so we transpose it upon others to avoid the truth of the matter".
Your case.
I understand it is a painful thing to have others not support you in your cause.
It's not painful not receiving support always. It is just how the world works; if everyone agrees with each other, then we would have a world with no issues, which is not the case.
it creates intense feelings of loneliness
Also, Loneliness is not a bad feeling; it's a way of life. However, That is not my case and it wouldn't be just because some board people decided to disagree. If people would get sad for not receiving support every time, how could they support themselves?
The interesting fact is that I mostly play AP champions
I don't care.
Your case.
Did I use too many big words for you after your tirade of self justifying your views?
It's not painful not receiving support always. It is just how the world works; if everyone agrees with each other, then we would have a world with no issues, which is not the case.
If everyone agrees with each other bad things happen. Dissent creates health. You are demanding people agree with you, and when they do not, you bash them.
That is not my case and it wouldn't be just because some board people decided to disagree.
So why ads hominem and assume an individuals motivations? Support your argument instead of looking for reasons to rail at people. Again, as it stands, the only mages capable of abusing it are both cassiopeia and Ryze.
Okay, since your are completely unable to neither watch nor reason for mages using Conqueror I will go ahead and point more examples.
Ryze, Cassiopeia, Ahri, Vel'Koz, AS, Syndra, and Vladimir.
Two last things.
1- Don't use big words to look smart when you don't even understand clearly how to use them. Also, it doesn't go with your personality; you showed a lack of self-control with your words just because someone had a stronger argument than yours. If you get mad that easily don't even try to look cool, it clearly won't work.
2- I was never attacking people, I just called you biased. I was never obligating people to support me; I was giving my opinion about the matter. It just shows a low level of understanding.
Now, enjoy yourself preparing whatever irrational argument or offenses that you have to say because after reading your last comment, I won't even bother in seeing it.
Okay, since your are completely unable to neither watch nor reason for mages using Conqueror I will go ahead and point more examples.
No one was obligated to disprove your argument. You must be capable of supporting it first and then those who oppose you will debate with you.
Ryze, Cassiopeia, These make sense.
Ahri, Vel'Koz, AS, Syndra, and Vladimir.
None of them would use the new conqueror. New conqueror works as follows. Each attack/ability provides a stack. This stack provides adaptive force. At full stacks, 10% of the damage dealt is true damage and 10% of the true damage provides healing. This means the only time the adaptive damage takes effect would be AFTER the stack has been gained. Which means in order for any of these champions to make use of the 70+ adapative damage at level 18 they would need to be in combat and constantly dealing damage to a target, because a single spell cannot proc a stack of conqueror so they cannot get 5 stacks from Qing an enemy team.
The average amount of damage gained from conqueror, therefore, is lower than utilizing the combo of absolute focus/perfect storm because that adaptive damage takes effect for subsequent attacks AFTER the stack is gained. This is why Ryze, Cass, and POSSIBLY azir can use conqueror because their cooldowns are so low. Every other mage you listed cannot spam their ablities, with the exception of syndra, and having tos tack conqueror for its effect would only lead to them getting jumped on and killed as well has having inferior damage to someone utilizing the combo I listed above and also missing out on important runes that enhance their damage even further.
Let us go one by one since I know you're going to spout some nonsense.
Ahri: Lowest CD is on Q which is 4.2. In lane everyone does their best to respect it, and being a skillshot means it can be dodged. She would need to rely on AA's to gain stacks. Even if she goes all in and does REWRQR, the stack bonus of 75 adaptive damage would only be gained after the 5th ability, her Q. So only a single ability is benefitting from max stacks. Perfect storm/absolute focus is superior for burst.
Vel'koz: Lowest CD is on Q. Each one provides 1 stack. He cannot get max procs because each stick of his channeled ability provides only 1 stack, and even if it doesnt, it is a slow moving beam. He is also a burst mage. So again, perfect storm/absolute focus would be superior.
Aurelion sol: Stacks it far too slowly to have it be of use. He would also prefer other runes because of nnate weaknesses.
Syndra: 2.8s on her Q. The only one who would likely be capable of utilizing it to great effect, the only issue is that again, it is a skillshot and the duration is 3s. This leaves very little room for error and like Ahri and vel'koz, she is a burst mage.
Vladamir: He uses phase rush because he cannot stack conqueror nearly quick enough for it to be of use.
NONE of the examples you listed would prefer to utilize conqueror.
Two last things.
Hahahahaha.
1- Don't use big words to look smart when you don't even understand clearly how to use them. Also, it doesn't go with your personality; you showed a lack of self-control with your words just because someone had a stronger argument than yours. If you get mad that easily don't even try to look cool, it clearly won't work.
Apologies I did not know a dictionary was out of reach of you. To transpose means to transfer two or more things to another or to change the place and context. It is synonymous with transfer, but given you are placing your own behaviors upon myself rather than a movement of an actual object or quality, transpose would be the most appropriate word. Similarly, this goes with your assumptions of character and emotional context. Holding anger against you because of your emotionally based view would be foolishness. I understand you are intimidated, but there is no need to be so passive aggressive.
2- I was never attacking people, I just called you biased.
"I get you guys like mages and are biased and won't accept reality; so proceed to live your own biased illusions."
That is an attack dude. When you state someone's views are biased and that they live in a false reality that is an attack against someone both in their character and as the motivation of their views. This is an ad hominem. To attack means to speak or act in a way which is meant to result in harm against another individual.
I was never obligating people to support me; I was giving my opinion about the matter. It just shows a low level of understanding.
Of course you were, because if you weren't, you would never have issued and attack, nor would you have been making these passive aggressive marks above. Have you never done any form of logical debating? Any theory crafting?
Now, enjoy yourself preparing whatever irrational argument or offenses that you have to say because after reading your last comment, I won't even bother in seeing it.
You are offering me the last word in an attempt to save face and protect your ego. Cute. I'll take it.
Banana muffin. Oops that was two words.
"All bruisers need to be gutted because Jax is strong"
See? Makes just as little sense as saying Conqerer needs to be melee only because 2-3 mages MIGHT be strong with it.
Another mage player pointing that Ryze is the only one who is abusing conqueror, yeah looks like it. I thought about putting a lot of examples but I also thought the community would be more intelligent. Is it really that difficult to search for people using mages with the actual conqueror and see things by yourself? Maybe some of you understand, and are just biased, so you don't want to recognize the issue.
Again, your example doesn't work since you are comparing a champion to the whole class. I am comparing a lot of champions to a Keystone.
Can we change a whole class? No Can we change a keystone? Yes
If Keystones and runes have been changed often to avoid being exploited by champions that are not supposed to extremely benefit from it, why shouldn't we do it now? Right, because it would be really fun using mages and doing a lot of extra TRUE damage and still being ranged.
Mages need neither the true damage, nor the sustain.
Only if they're into a melee match up, otherwise getting in range to auto attack will put you in range of being hit by their abilities and I'd rather be hit by a couple of auto attacks than Syndra's full combo.
Or they can halve the effects on ranged so it reduces incentive to do such things except in very niche situations.
They're not gonna make a keystone melee-only lol
It will take a few patches, but I agree with Hashinshin on this one (weirdly). I think it'll just make mages a lot stronger, and it'll be 4 or 5 patches before they nerf it... while probably nerfing a bunch of mages along the way, but hey.
What mages? The only ones who can use it will be ryze and cassio, maybe Zyra and Azir depending on how it counts for their kits.
5 hits to even activate it is a huge ordeal for the vast majority of mages.
intensifies "i read the book you lose"
I've never found mages to be the strongest class.
On mages? how? It doesn't work at all with DOTs, any mage with "normal" CDs on their abilities cannot even use it unless they'd be AAing you all the time.
If anything, mages (except cass?) would hardly have any means to use it.
Cass, Ryze, Ezreal, Karthus, and Kassadin (because melee and late game R) have low enough CDs to potentially use it. The problem then is that except for Ezreal and maybe Kassadin, they can't really use the second row of precision effectively.
And other than these mages, no mage I can think of can get all 5 stacks and still have abilities to make use of the true damage + healing.
Nether Kass or Karthus can really use conqueror.
Karthus: if you can hit your dot 5 times in a row, each righrt after another, then you are karthus god and your target is most likely already dead. Not to mention considering cast-time of Requirem you'd have to use it IMMIDIATELY after getting 5th stack, so you'd be sitting duck for whatever allowed you to charge up your stacks. Yeah you could AA and defile, but it's still not great.
Kassadin. It will work only in lategame, when Kass can spam his R at least 3 times on enemy and then cast 2 spells (all just to charge it) and then have mana to R few more times.
Although it'd be possible in those 2 cases, my question is: why bother if you can use other for better synergy?
In case of Cass and Ryze yea, Cass will definitely benefit from it, Ryze, i'm not sure. Ezreal breaks everything so he's like totally different animal here.
Karthus can easily stack up conqueror with his Q and auto attacks, with his aura applying an extra stack for him. Plus, each Q after the first stack will be dealing increased damage, as well as his aura's damage. Even if you miss one or two, you've got 3 seconds to hit with another Q or AA before losing your stacks. Against an immobile target like Lux, Vel'Koz, and many other mages, you'll be able to stack it quickly enough. Plus, later on in teamfights you'll be able to hit frontline tanks with it easily to stack up the damage, then you can keep the passive true damage and healing up. Especially if they make the change where DoT's keep your current stacks.
Kassadin Q has a 9 second cooldown, meaning after he gets about 15% cdr he can use it on his enemy to stack up conqueror because he benefits from melee stacks lasting 8 seconds instead of 3. He can stack it faster if he manages to get into melee range of an enemy (AA+W reset for 2 instant stacks), or if he uses his E. His R is also on a short enough cooldown that when he gets it, he can keep his conqueror stacks up pretty much indefinitely.
There are probably better choices for both champs either way, but both champs definitely could emerge as core users.
All of that still is IF they can hit their spells (or have enough mana to do so). And if that's all the requirement, then anyone could, in theory, use it. But in practice mages like karthus or kass won't be as effective as you think.
Kassadin Q is point and click with 650 range, and his W refunds mana on use. His E is also a huge cone with a slow attached that can't really be dodged.
What is this bias lol
"Strongest class in the game".
We aren't the ones who are making Tanks virtually obsolete top lane.
Thn you realize conquerer is the reason tanks aren't top and not the top champs alone.
It's also on Precision, a tree mages don´t want even as their secondary tree 99% of the time.
They aren´t suddenly going to forgo Comet, Aery, Electrocute, Predator, Dark Harvest or Aftershock for new Conqueror.
You honestly think the mages that can make disgustingly good use of the new conqueror aren't going to use it, regardless of what tree it's on? Especially considering the choices on Precision are actually pretty good for the champions who make the most use out of it?
You honestly think the mages that can make disgustingly good use of the new conqueror aren't going to use it, regardless of what tree it's on? Especially considering the choices on Precision are actually pretty good for the champions who make the most use out of it?
"the mages that make disgustingly good use" of Conq. are Ryze and Cass. DPS over burst.
Of them, i think only cass can really use it the best because her damage has basically no cooldown. Shes also basically a marksman, who will abuse the heck out of this.
And even melee only could be bothersome to play against.

URF mode: ap
might be fun. And
too.
The first four "mages" you listed are all assassins. Well actually I don't know what sylas is, but while he may be ap, he is no mage.
Never said they were mages but melees?
Sylas is classified as a burst mage. He does lots of damage with his Q+W+stolen R, and his E gives him enough mobility to make up for his being melee.
Where did you get that information? I thought he would be considered a battle mage...
Short ranged, has some durability, constant damage over burst.
https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Champion_classes/Mage#Burst
Honestly, he should be classified as a burst/battle mage, but that's just how it is currently.
Correct me if I am wrong, but this is a fan wiki, isn't it?
I thought he was supposed to be an AP bruiser by design, but he builds straight AP simply because there are no fitting items for his intended playstyle. Riot actually wanted to introduce this itemization, but the internal testing didn't go well and it will get postponed.
He is intended as a battle mage by Riot. Just like Diana is intended as a diver. Their problem is that there are currently no great items for them to work with.
It is a fan wiki, but the information compiled within is just what's in the game. It started out with the classes specified in this list: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/3A5uuBw7-champion-subclass-list and grew from there. The most recent list of champipn classes was from 2017: https://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses Riot's own classifications are pretty bad, like how Rengar was listed as a diver and not an assassin. Sylas is definitely a mage by Riot's classification, and he fits equally well into both the burst mage and the battle mage categories, especially if you factor in the range of ults he can steal.
I don't think their classification is bad. If I remember correctly, then Rengar was even built like a bruiser back then. He built a bit of damage, then tank items like
.
And if you look into the descriptions of the subclasses, then Rengar actually makes more sense as a diver than an assassin. Diver have a way in, can be a damage threat for their target, and have a bit of survivability to survive a bit longer in the middle of the enemy. Meanwhile assassin have damage, a way to go into the enemy team and important difference to diver: no defense, but a way to get out again.
Now look at Rengars kit. With his passive and ult, he has a way in to reach his target. He has damage and some durability with the cleanse and heal on W. But he has no way to escape if he is surrounded by enemies. His passive and ult, which both require an enemy to jump to, are his only mobility. He can't get out.
But people complained and wanted him back as an assassin, building full damage to oneshot enemies.
Lets be honest Elec is far better for assassins than Conq. An exception might be
if she chooses a fighter build over an assassin one.
how will it make them stronger?
it stacks with unique abilities,so a mage should use all his abilities + few AAs (thing that many long range mages hate to do) only for stacking it,and once it is stacked they ran out of abilities for using it
most of them want to burst not DPS so this rune will be useless on them and on top of that the precision tree is not the best for this class
31 Mage players don't agree with this post.
Downvote me if you agree with me.