Tank durability really needs to be addressed.

Dasdi96·Jan 10, 2019·46 votes·14,815 views

Not only are tank items the weakest they have ever been, there is way too many anti tank tools in the game. So the game changed from "tanks get outscaled slightly late game because they have to build for both resists while carries only have to build for one damage type." to "tanks get blown up every fight unless they are ahead." This has led to tanks being a feast or famine role. Many tanks have started to go with more offensive builds because that is their only chance and even then they have to snowball to make it work.

29 Comments

ŚhunpoJan 10, 201919 votes

Fix damage first then we can talk. Tanks are already dealing quite a lot of damage themselves, so until their damage is fixed I don't think I'm ready for round 2 of "How will I get 1v1'd 100-0 by the Maokai?".

DragonSheaJan 10, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Seth L9,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iN6nvhth,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-10T05:17:35.022+0000)

Fix damage first then we can talk. Tanks are already dealing quite a lot of damage themselves, so until their damage is fixed I don't think I'm ready for round 2 of "How will I get 1v1'd 100-0 by the Maokai?".

I think we need to make a thread about riot's mentality towards damage instead.

ŚhunpoJan 10, 20198 votes

Except there's already been numerous threads, and yet Riot's current balance team continues to be braindead about it. They say they're "nerfing systematic damage" however I really beg to differ since their changes are usually rather small until they break someone such as Vayne and Ornn since they get blinded by wanting champs to be viable in pro play that they forget that their changes have a massive impact globally.

tl;dr Riot still won't listen because their current balance team is braindead.

DragonSheaJan 10, 20194 votes

[{quoted}](name=Seth L9,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iN6nvhth,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-10T11:54:54.802+0000)

Except there's already been numerous threads, and yet Riot's current balance team continues to be braindead about it. They say they're "nerfing systematic damage" however I really beg to differ since their changes are usually rather small until they break someone such as Vayne and Ornn since they get blinded by wanting champs to be viable in pro play that they forget that their changes have a massive impact globally.

tl;dr Riot still won't listen because their current balance team is braindead.

I think that people have focused more on complaining instead of delivering a sharp and hard hitting criticism toward riot that they can't ignore.

ŚhunpoJan 10, 20192 votes

Don't get me wrong, I do think that people have been going about it the wrong way most of the time, however there have still been instances where people here do construct a well thought-out post that is just never seen by Riot because they hardly ever come by here due to their unwillingness to deal with any sort of backlash or abuse.

Our communication with Riot is fairly limited, unless we get a pro player to side with us, in which case they'll do whatever we want.

Bob the ToastrJan 10, 201911 votes

That's part of the problem. The two problems are connected. Rito feels the need to buff tanks' damage and nerf their durability every time they come up in the patch notes. It's a systematic damage creep problem.

ŚhunpoJan 10, 20192 votes

Ooooh yeah, you're tellin' me! They seem to think that by throwing more shit at the fan they'll solve the issue, with the shit being more damage and the fan being champions who they buff. They're not going to make Sej any more meta with their changes, unless she ends up having enough damage to 100-0 someone, in which case they've fundamentally ignored what they set out to do with her and other tanks, being to turn them into meatshields with a ton of CC who don't have enough damage to win fights solo outside of early game.

I think that once damage is fixed there should definitely be some tank specific changes done specifically to their durability, as that's more or less been screwed over by Void Staff, flat magic pen. and Lethality stacking.

Daddy AntsJan 10, 20194 votes

Really...

A behind Ornn had no issues living more than 3 seconds vs me last night and I was a majorly ahead Vayne.

VolatileAkaliJan 10, 20195 votes

Hes fucking Ornn.

agac4234Jan 10, 20197 votes

and shes fucking vayne. the anti tank

GigglesOJan 10, 20192 votes

Vayne still takes auto attacks to deal her anti tank damage. It’s only 12% (?) every 3 autos.

agac4234Jan 10, 20191 votes

not if she builds botrk and rage blade. botrk does 8% current hp dmg. and rage balde doubls it every other auto which means that at full rage balde stacks she deals 24% current hp dmg and 14% max hp true dmg in 2 autos. and this is with out counting her auto dmg and crit dmg

GigglesOJan 10, 20191 votes

And the physical damage is fully reduce able to like 50-100/hit. You probably took 3 seconds to true damage him to death.

Daddy AntsJan 10, 20194 votes

{quoted}

not if she builds botrk and rage blade. botrk does 8% current hp dmg. and rage balde doubls it every other auto which means that at full rage balde stacks she deals 24% current hp dmg and 14% max hp true dmg in 2 autos. and this is with out counting her auto dmg and crit dmg

BoTRK is physical damage. Autos are physical damage. Tumble's physical damage.

Armor works vs 80% of her damage.

agac4234Jan 10, 20191 votes

yeah but how much armor does somebody stack? and if she gets IE 10% of her dmg it converted into true dmg too. and 200 armor gives around 68% dmg reduction so its still not that much when u can do 700 dmg per auto

VolatileAkaliJan 11, 20191 votes

Lul true.

Daddy AntsJan 10, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Vayne still takes auto attacks to deal her anti tank damage. It’s only 12% (?) every 3 autos.

14%

MarshbouyJan 10, 20191 votes

every time someone makes a thread about tank durability I assume they played a tank in their last game and dove 1v5 over and over again.

NyarlathοtepJan 10, 2019

No context. For all we know you might have been withered by a nasus.

wolviusJan 10, 20193 votes

Don't worry Riots on the case.

* ~~Neeko~~ Inherent glamour New Effect "If Neeko becomes invisible to the enemy while disguised, she gains 20% magic penetration that lasts 4 seconds after the disguise breaks."*

hhaavviikkJan 10, 20192 votes

people say that but I had a leona fight me 1 vs 1 on nexus blitz and I was AP ezreal and I had to run away as I couldn't kill her, though I suppose that may be due to force of nature on nexus blitz

Cats Are FoodJan 10, 20195 votes

AP Ezreal isn't a duelist. Also - Leona. AP Ezreal's entire concept is blowing a squishy into oblivion with a W+E, it doesn't work on tanks.

hhaavviikkJan 10, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iN6nvhth,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-10T15:37:09.156+0000)

AP Ezreal isn't a duelist. Also - Leona. AP Ezreal's entire concept is blowing a squishy into oblivion with a W+E, it doesn't work on tanks.

then how come tanks get bursted into oblivion if the forums are to be believed? I just don't get it

also shows how obnoxious it is when you face a enemy you cannot kill, I couldn't get into the teamfighting because leona was chasing me and I couldn't do anything to her

Cats Are FoodJan 10, 20193 votes

It's the assassins and things like Brand. The assassins currently shave armor by an average of 50, while having natural lethality, then get front loaded burst added to their items.

Sire HippingtonJan 11, 20191 votes

because usually it's not 1v1, tanks are ment to be the frontline in a TEAMFIGHT, to be the initiator into 5man, and that scenario looks way different than a tank 1v1ing a champ that is notoriously bad at dealing with tanks. Also, FoN is massive and the reason i love playing tanks in nexusblitz

SimpumbaJan 10, 20192 votes

Riot isn't looking into the real issue, which is items, and a few champions(irelia for example)

Items are stacked with stats, making each purchase a huge spike, it doesn't help every item also has 10% slapped on it for shits and giggles.

Almost everyone has 40% cdr and a shit load of armor or magic pen, this makes building armor or magic resist redundant, as you'll still disappear fast as a tank.

A lot of items themselves, are to cheap, and over the years have gone down in price, talking about lethality items here. The old The Brutalizer item costed 1300 gold, and gave the same stats as dirk. But dirk cost over 200g less, gives a 30sec passive giving 40dmg more in auto attack poke for trades.

In the end, to much stats on each item, to much pen in champion kits/items, tanks do to much damage instead of being more tanky.

There's also so much damage that cant be blocked(torment, conq, true dmg from IE, flat armor/magic pen so early in game)

RainbowIceeJan 10, 20191 votes

I think just lower the price on some items or buff that run about going into dept to buy items in favor of tanks? I think it's a quick and good temporary solution.

Burns MasterJan 10, 20191 votes

Weren't assassins supposed to be Feast or Famine, not tanks? hmm

Wild GeeseJan 11, 20191 votes

Problem is tanks are building the wrong stuff, just armor and health items. Brusier Itemization is superior for survival!

Try killing a Aatrox , Garen or Irelia with item 3053 . It takes a while. Even Vayne needs 2 more autos to deal with that.

Or for Instance: Illaoi : item 3111 item 3071 item 3742 item 3053 item 3813 item 3065 . That tanky girl is way harder to take out than some Maokai or Ornn building just armor/hp/mr. You need stuff like self healing, shield, Regen, flat mitigation, tenacity, revive, etc. without dynamic defenses you die to true damage like all the rest.