@Repertoir What is Riot's current stance on Nasus?

Sasogwa·Nov 28, 2015·3 votes·1,248 views

I have mixed feelings about him right now. I feel he's at the same time pretty good and overall solid in the meta, and at the same time when I play against some other juggernaughts I feel like I need around 600+ stacks to even go even with them power-wise, which is quite high. I don't have the feeling of being, you know, THE lategame champion anymore (tbh it's been quite a while), but more of a kinda midgame champion that also falls off in teamfighting due to being so kited.

So overall, I really do NOT think Nasus needs straight buffs, but I'm not sure he's right on the 'lategame fantasy' place anymore, which was one of the biggest things that wanna make you play Nasus. I just wanted to know how you and the balance team felt about him.

34 Comments

A Bad NasusNov 29, 20153 votes

He's one of the last juggernauts who still has an attack range of 125, which was the same range Darius, Garen, Morde had pre-rework. He was in the list of mellees who were going to get their range buffed in patch 5.23, but it was subsequently removed. If anything I would like some context on why it was reverted since it basically blurs consistency when it comes to champion design.

From experience I can definitely say that Nasus is not a lategame champ (teamfight wise) Nasus's thing is his midgame powerspike where he can tank well and outtrade mostly anyone on the enemy team. Otherwise if the game drags on he will have to transition back to splitpushing since his teamfight gets glaringly worse as the game progresses.

Pierce The VealNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stunning Potato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iMWhH3lH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-29T00:53:30.069+0000)

He's one of the last juggernauts who still has an attack range of 125, which was the same range Darius, Garen, Morde had pre-rework. He was in the list of mellees who were going to get their range buffed in patch 5.23, but it was subsequently removed. If anything I would like some context on why it was reverted since it basically blurs consistency when it comes to champion design.

From experience I can definitely say that Nasus is not a lategame champ (teamfight wise) Nasus's thing is his midgame powerspike where he can tank well and outtrade mostly anyone on the enemy team. Otherwise if the game drags on he will have to transition back to splitpushing since his teamfight gets glaringly worse as the game progresses.

No, it doesn't "blur consistency."

Nasus's main weakness is in lane where you hit him when he tries to get a minion. Increasing the range he can farm at just makes it harder for melees to cope with him and encourages ranged toplaners.

A Bad NasusNov 29, 20151 votes

Except that he had the same range as his melee counters pre-juggernaut update and had a range advantage when he ulted as well. So tell me how this will make it "harder to cope".

Pierce The VealNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stunning Potato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iMWhH3lH,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T02:31:11.607+0000)

Except that he had the same range as his melee counters pre-juggernaut update and had a range advantage when he ulted as well. So tell me how this will make it "harder to cope".

The opponent doesn't have to be a counterpick. There are a lot of melee tops. You shouldn't have to pick one of a handful of champions to actually fight nasus early game.

A Bad NasusNov 29, 20153 votes

All melees can fight nasus early game, literally every champion can fight nasus early game. An attack range buff to put him in line with the other juggernauts is not going to make him a god tier toplaner.

Pierce The VealNov 29, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Stunning Potato,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iMWhH3lH,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-29T21:14:12.489+0000)

All melees can fight nasus early game, literally every champion can fight nasus early game. An attack range buff to put him in line with the other juggernauts is not going to make him a god tier toplaner.

That is bullshit and you know it. Nasus just ignores many melees in lane and cses, lifestealing like crazy.

A Bad NasusNov 30, 20151 votes

He needs stacks before it gets to that point. The only time Nasus was able to do that early game was back in season 3 when he had 20% lifesteal at lvl 1 and item 1054 was an item worth getting.

Pierce The VealNov 29, 20151 votes

Stupid boards not processing my posts.

Pierce The VealNov 29, 20151 votes

junglerboy16Nov 28, 20152 votes

One change that's been kicked around for ages is to give his Q a stack cap that scales with rank (say 200/300/400/500/600), and then in exchange for removing the ability to get crazy high damage in the off game where it goes super late (i.e. no more 900 stack Nasuses one-shotting you), he would instead gain some small amount of mobility (probably some sort of MS buff and or slow resistance on his ultimate). That would allow him to play a bit better in team fights while also tackling the issue of the eternally split pushing/powerfarming Susan.

Basically, this trades in some artificial power (woohoo I got 900 stacks! if only I could actually catch and hit someone) with actual power (I may not be one-shotting anyone anymore, but I can actually hit them now!).

EcchiOtakuTMNov 29, 20152 votes

He needs to get a devourer rework on his Q it should give bonus effects at certain amount of stacks up to a max of 500 so he can be more interactive in a game instead of afk farming.

CarnariusNov 30, 20152 votes

why did you have to post 10 times?

and as i said before, he might be strong (stronger than before) for low elo, and he is a utter trash tier for high elo (and i'm talking about at least diamond 2+). that's the real problem, he is completely unplayable when people know how to deal with him

and no idea why you mention hp regen, as it's being the most useless stat in the game, ONLY except while you have spirit + warmog combo

CarcinogenesisDec 1, 20151 votes

Sorry the repeated posts. Internet was being wierd, and I clicked post a couple times thinking each time it didn't go through it was cancelled, not queing.

I mentioned his hp regen because it does him early game--which is where base stats have the most impact--even if it's negligible mid-late game (and also because I have it memorized for some reason >.>).

But tell me about this "high elo" thing. I checked you on OP.gg: you're a Master-Tier Nasus main, and you've been playing him throughout the season. At some point, you thought he was viable. Looking at his winrate over the latter half of the season, I agree that he's run into some trouble, but he's spiked back up during the preseason without any direct buffs or obvious indirect buffs. I'm going to give a general summary of Nasus's gameplay and ask what weaknesses you faced towards the latter half of the season at your elo. Then we can address whether those weaknesses got worse or better with the most recent patches.

Nasus's balance revolves around being able to 1v1 basically any champ in return for not being able to do anything but farm for 15~20 minutes. At least, in low elo, he can reasonably teamfight if you don't pretend like you're Vi/Olaf and wade through the enemy frontline to get the the ADC. Even if he can't, he's a still a good split pusher. All you need to split push is 1. map awareness and 2. the ability to 1v1 or outrun anyone (Nasus usually does the former, obviously).

In the later half of Season 5,

Did he start having trouble 1v1ing people? Who? (For me, it was juggernauts if they ever got through bans.)
Did he start having trouble farming? Why?
Were lanes snowballing faster while he was farming? Why?
Was whatever ability he had to teamfight (if he ever had that at high elo) completely removed? Why?
Was his ability to split push or split pushing in general nerfed? How?

How have the state of those weaknesses changed in Preseason 6? You've already stated that you think his sustain is better, and more early wards means less early jungle pressure, so his farming is fine. I think the fall of control mages is a huge buff to Nasus now that he doesn't have to deal with stuff like Viegar stuns costing him a Summoner Spell every time he wants to teamfight, but you tell me if that's how it works in high elo.

CarnariusDec 1, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Sorry the repeated posts. Internet was being wierd, and I clicked post a couple times thinking each time it didn't go through it was cancelled, not queing.

I mentioned his hp regen because it does him early game--which is where base stats have the most impact--even if it's negligible mid-late game (and also because I have it memorized for some reason >.>).

But tell me about this "high elo" thing. I checked you on OP.gg: you're a Master-Tier Nasus main, and you've been playing him throughout the season. At some point, you thought he was viable. Looking at his winrate over the latter half of the season, I agree that he's run into some trouble, but he's spiked back up during the preseason without any direct buffs or obvious indirect buffs. I'm going to give a general summary of Nasus's gameplay and ask what weaknesses you faced towards the latter half of the season at your elo. Then we can address whether those weaknesses got worse or better with the most recent patches.

Nasus's balance revolves around being able to 1v1 basically any champ in return for not being able to do anything but farm for 15~20 minutes. At least, in low elo, he can reasonably teamfight if you don't pretend like you're Vi/Olaf and wade through the enemy frontline to get the the ADC. Even if he can't, he's a still a good split pusher. All you need to split push is 1. map awareness and 2. the ability to 1v1 or outrun anyone (Nasus usually does the former, obviously).

In the later half of Season 5,

Did he start having trouble 1v1ing people? Who? (For me, it was juggernauts if they ever got through bans.)

Did he start having trouble farming? Why?

Were lanes snowballing faster while he was farming? Why?

Was whatever ability he had to teamfight (if he ever had that at high elo) completely removed? Why?

Was his ability to split push or split pushing in general nerfed? How?

How have the state of those weaknesses changed in Preseason 6? You've already stated that you think his sustain is better, and more early wards means less early jungle pressure, so his farming is fine. I think the fall of control mages is a huge buff to Nasus now that he doesn't have to deal with stuff like Viegar stuns costing him a Summoner Spell every time he wants to teamfight, but you tell me if that's how it works in high elo.

he was perfectly fine before 5.16 which killed him almost entirely, and preseason changes made him even worse. here is the list of nerfs he recieved since 5.16:

huge amount of nerfs of his core items (frozen heart gutted, armor items being weaker overall, worse triforce)
juggernauts uptade made them really strong, which was huge indirect nerf for nasus, he just became even less viable (becouse he just sucks compared to them, in every aspect)
decreased tankiness, new masteries being even more in favour of damage dealers
nerfed tenacity (which was crucial for him), now you don't need a control mage to make him immobile in a teamfight, one simple slow is enough
inability to splitpush, as most of your opponents will be able to deal with you under turret in a 1v1 scenario, so it's pointless

i could probably think about more (like stupid creep block), but these are the most important, and it shows he is practically bad iat everything right now and it's not true there is less jungle pressure. to be honest, it's completely opposite, it's way too easy to dive him due to having decreased tankiness and towers being really weak. if you are against lane bully (in nasus case nearly everyone), you are almost guaranteed to be dove as you will never be at full hp about your questions:

every sated devourer jungler destroys him, and almost every ranged/meele champion will make him unable to push effectively, that's more than enough, becouse after 20 seconds enemy will rotate and kill you
he has increased sustain, but lowered durability, meaning he is even more vulnerable to ganks and 1v1 mistakes (example : enemy riven hit lvl 6 1-2 minions before you - you are dead, even under turret. that was not the case pre 5.16)
we have overall faster games now, so that's a huge problem for him, if he gets behind it means he won't have time to farm up and come back
his teamfight was never good, but it's completely atrocious after tank items nerfs and nerfed tenacity
as i said before, it's easy to stop him in 1v1 now. besides, even before it was really rare to split push effectively at master/challenger tier game. it was a lot easier when i was diamond though

overall, in the past you had to invest quite a lot to stop him (in both splitpush and teamfight), now it just feels like it's incredibly easy to make him useless

CarcinogenesisDec 4, 20151 votes

I agree and disagree on alot of your points.

Also, you bring a lot of interesting discussion. I feel like this thread is old now, but I'd really like to continue this somewhere else.

Things I agree on:

inability to splitpush, as most of your opponents will be able to deal with you under turret in a 1v1 scenario, so it's pointless

Yeah, his ability to turret dive is shit, especially compared to other split pushers. It is kind of frustrating, especially since even tanks can waveclear now with Titanic Hydra. I feel like the way to deal with this is rotating really well yourself, but it's harder, epecially pre-Dead Man's. Once you get Dead Man's, rotations are managable, but yeah it's another element of the game I'm having to learn for Nasus. It's a change in his gameplay, but change happens for everyone. The sands of time are ever shifting...

The only way I could imagine Riot fixing this is specifically giving Nasus some sort of mechanic to help him towerdive. It would probably involve a minor rework, and a couple other champions are already in line for that, so I don't see it in the near future.

we have overall faster games now, so that's a huge problem for him, if he gets behind it means he won't have time to farm up and come back

The snowballing right now is retarded. I agree that there's nothing we can do about other lanes snowballing, even less so now.
On the other hand, lanes are being won before Nasus's laner can start roam, which means that Nasus's laner doesn't have as much of that advantage over Nasus. Still, people get better at closing games at higher elo, so I would imagine that this is what's going to give you more trouble than me.

If Riot decided to tone down the snowball, it should favor us. If Riot decides that they like this snowbally meta, I would not be surprised if somewhere along the line Riot decides to give the slowest scaler in the game a buff to keep up in the meta. I think higher stacks on champion kills (something like 6-->15) would allow him to match the pace of them game. Besides some base-stat buffs, this is the only buff I would consider appropriate.

Things that I sort of agree on:

juggernauts' update made them really strong, which was huge indirect nerf for nasus

Juggernauts were a huge indirect nerf to Nasus, but not becase they were played. I don't if know if Darius was getting past bans n your games, but I played ranked almost exclusively during the Juggernaut Meta solely because it was the only way I could assure I wouldn't have to face Darius (not even normals draft was safe).

So I rarely had issues facing juggernauts. I was having more issues with other champions that were getting through bans, namely control mages, because the Juggernauts+Fiora+Gangplank were taking their place on the perma-ban list (although I prefered to ban Yi over Gangplank because Silver Yi's are a lot scarier than Silver Gangplanks and Yi posed a threat to me 1v1).

it's not true there is less jungle pressure. to be honest, it's completely opposite,

I misspoke there. Because of the extra trinket ward, I haven't had as many problems with getting ganked or dove. The problem I am having is, once I see the enemy jungler coming, I back off and recall, but before I can even TP back to tower, the enemy top laner and jungler have already taken at least 3/4 of it's health. Riot says they are going to give towers even more health in the future soon, so it's k.

every sated devourer jungler destroys him

The only current Sated Devourer junglers (Kayle is a problem of her own kind) that give me trouble are Xin Zhao and Bruiser Yi (and Shyv to a lesser degree). Xin Zhao can gank, and if he camps me and puts me behind, then I won't be able to 1v1 him because I need more gold than average to itemize against him. Meanwhile, Yi actually can duel Nasus if he goes Bruiser-Yi with Dead-Man's or something (Full-assassin Yi gets rekt).

I haven't really had that much of a problem with SD junglers because wither dumps them, I agree but they're much, much harder to 1v2 against than other junglers once they finally show up.

Things I disagree on:

his teamfight was never good, but it's completely atrocious after tank items nerfs and nerfed tenacity

I still think control mages' fall is a huge buff to his teamfighting.

DMP does not make you as tanky as Randuin's, but you are faster. Mobility over tankiness generally makes champions harder, but harder doesn't necessarily mean worse.

And tenacity nerfs are a double edged sword. Yes, tenacity was a huge help to him in teamfights, but on the other hand, less tenacity means wither is more effective. And plus, tenacity doesn't save you from knockups/knockbacks/permaslows anyway.

enemy riven hit lvl 6 1-2 minions before you - you are dead, even under turret. that was not the case pre 5.16

Nasus doesn't have Frozen Heart at level 5, so he isn't "10 armor behind" then. Nasus didn't become more vulnerable to a level 6 instagib on 5.16.

Besides, Riven is pretty much always going to hit level 6 before you. Just back when you get close to level 6 because 95% of the time she's one step ahead of you and you probably want some armor before you pick up those last couple creeps. (I found that opting for three cloth armors+potions [boots if you had the money but you won't if Riven is contesting properly] is actually a better buy than warden's mail, because the attack speed reduction won't help you much and it's more expensive.)

huge amount of nerfs of his core items (frozen heart gutted, armor items being weaker overall, worse triforce).

Armor item nerfs, eh? Malphite Rammus would like to have a word with you...
I've done some math. I'm almost certain that you need to regen ~48.3% of your health for the Grievous Wounds on Mortal Reminder to be worth more than LDR's passive (ask me for the proof if you want). Nasus doesn't deal 8000 Q damage in a fight to lifesteal that much, so LDR is a better choice against him. As for LDR vs the old LW, your bonus armor needs to be ~4.09 times your base armor, or 1.69 times if they have the %arpen mastery. So basically, auto-attackers will do more, and AD-casters will do less.

But, yes, Nasus has dropped in tankiness overall. I used to buy Randuin's a lot because armor+health+AS reduction just gave him good stats, but now I buy usually buy Dead Man's Plate instead because the decrease in tankiness was worth the huge boost to his ability to flank in teamfights and rotate accross the map. Doesn't mean you can't buy RO if you want; I'm just reminding you of the price Nasus pays for mobility.

As for his core, it was hardly "gutted."

Frozen heart lost 10 armor, Spirit Visage gained 10 MR. They cancel out.

Trinity Force changes are negligible. AS/AD/crit don't really matter, and trading 10% CDR for 3% movespeed is ok because if you really want that 3% movespeed back, you can swap two CDR quints (5% CDR) for two MS quints (3%) MS and lose nothing.

Merc Tread's got nerfed, yeah. You will notice the difference in tenacity if you go 0/18/12, but if you go 12/0/18, it's works out to be only a 10% difference in tenacity (.65*.9-.8*.85=-.095), which isn't that much. And like I said earlier, tenacity won't save you from everything.

new masteries being even more in favour of damage dealers

Yeah, masteries help damage dealers, but Nasus is a damage dealer (just a very tanky one, like Shyvanna). The damage masteries he can get help him more than the old because it's percent damage, not flat/% AD/AP. Plus, the defensive masteries are pretty good on Nasus too.

If you go 0/18/12, you get 5% bonus resistance 8% extra healing (or with the next patch, some extra flat health if you prefer that over sustain) Reduced Summoner Spell cooldown (rip Tping to towers though) 5% damage to low targets 5% CDR beyond the cap Phage passive on steroids

If you go 12/0/18 2% extra Q damage 2.5% lifesteal 2.5% extra damage 5% bonus resistance 8% extra healing (or with the next patch, some extra flat health if you prefer that over sustain) Reduced Summoner Spell cooldown (rip Tping to towers though) 15% tenacity + slow resistance 3% health leech

All in all, I think Nasus is going to be fine.

CarnariusNov 29, 20151 votes

from high elo perspective, he is one of the weakest champs in the game, with no early game, no teamfight and being only useful for splitpush purposes if farmed heavily (but that has been taken away as well, we have faster games right now). it's also incredibly easy to dive and ruin him, as he has one of the lowest base stats and stats/level from all meele champions (and the lowest from all bruisers). there is no one reason to pick him over other bruiser

for low/mid elo, he is probably pretty strong (perhaps stronger than before), as his sustain was increased and people there have barely any idea how to play against him, which makes his laning safe, and teamfight/splitpush strong

that's about it

CarcinogenesisNov 30, 20151 votes

He actually has some of the highest HP regen stats in the game. Tied for 6th at level 1 and 4th at level 18, not even including his passive.

He's also in the second tier of base movespeed at 350. IIRC, the only champions faster are Yi, Talon, and Mantheon.

And while it doesn't really help him, Nasus is in the Top 20 for highest AS at level 18--top 10 for melees, and of those, Irelia is the only champ in front of him that I would consider a bruiser.

I will agree that his mana is shit though. It doesn't really affect him in the early game because he doesn't need to spam his W or E to farm; but mid-late game, once you start chain-withering people and using E for waveclear, he goes oom fast. If they buffed his base pool/regen, I think he'd be op because he could spam it in lane, so I'd advocate instead for either buffing the scaling pool/regen or reducing the cost of Spirit Fire as it levels (120 mana is ridiculous).

I'd like a buff to his range, but he's playable without it. His other base stats are fine, considering how much free stats he gets from his abilities anyway.

I think the issue with him is that he's a carry top laner with limited ability to carry. He's pretty consistent in my experience, which limits his power budget--Riot would have to be careful if they buffed him. I get strong enough to 1v1 anyone in 90% of my games; whether I can make something of it depends alot on whether my other lanes lost while I was farming. Giving him more early influence in games' outcomes could easily make him unstoppably overpowered, especially in lower elo play.

You could argue that Nasus doesn't always get strong, but on the other hand, his teammates don't always lose lane.

CarcinogenesisDec 1, 20151 votes

I apologize for all the repeated posts. My internet was wierd, and I clicked Post a couple times until i was it went through, thinking the others were canceled.

SasogwaNov 29, 20151 votes

I do appreciate the efforts made for the suggestion, but I also believe infinite scaling is extremely core to the champion's design. And tbh it's a false idea to think that infinite scaling means you become a 1v5 monster/become unstoppable (Bard is op lategame said no one ever). Especially since tankiness kinda falls off lategame, and Nasus can't be more tanky than his items (there's a slight amount of lifesteal tankiness, but that's not so incredible come lategame)

In my opinion, the scaling as it is currently, can not really be a problem lategame because of its linearity. Basically, once you have 40% cdr, the scaling is linear. You get 1cs, you get +3 damage on Q.

Meanwhile, most scaling with items go exponentially (especially damage), due to the %increases that synergize together, such as critchance/pen/attack speed or %AP from rabadons/magicpen/cdr for mages, that's why Nasus is strongest midgame, and lategame, people actually catch up with Nasus. His real infinite stacking come when everyone has 6 items and the only one that can get stronger is Nasus. And funnily, at that point, Nasus isn't that good. He is really good in 1v1, but that's it. If you're looking for lategame comps, it's more about damage hypercarries and tank peelers.

CarcinogenesisNov 30, 20151 votes

Personally, I feel that Nasus is doing a lot better than he has been recently for a couple reasons, so he doesn't need buffs.

1. Control mages are out of the meta. He got zoned really, really hard by control mages, more so than other Juggernauts, imo. Morde has the dragon to do his bidding; Garen's Flash-Q-R combo had some pretty big burst on the villain; Darius's Q and E both have some range and could chunk someone or pick someone off, and even if he couldn't reach the mid/backline, his true damage still wrecks frontlines. Nasus, however, had to get in melee range and stay there for an extended period, which was nigh impossible with control mages cockblocking him. You pretty much had to have flash up to avoid chain-cc. In addition, control mages could wave clear very well, and combined with TP, they could stop his split push too. With control mages nerfed, Nasus has an easier time teamfighting and more success split pushing.

2. Matchups are better for Nasus in general. Some top laners are having some itemization issues, namely AD-assassins--less competition for Nasus. On the other hand, Nasus counters some popular/strong champions right now. And while yes, Darius and co. still frustrate Nasus, they’ve been nerfed.

3. Games being shorter. I feel like this is a double-edged sword. On one hand, if Nasus’s teammates lose lane, they’ll lose faster than Nasus can intervene, and this has always been a huge weakness for Nasus. But on the other hand, lanes are often being decided before the roaming phase, which means Nasus’s lane opponent has less influence during that 8-15 minute period where they roam while Nasus can’t do anything.

4. Minion mechanics. The whole minion block thing is another double edged sword. While yes, it can get in your way, it also means you can block the first wave and bring it closer to your tower. It’s also harder to freeze the wave offensively and deny Nasus farm.

5. Reduced early jungle pressure, thanks to double trinket wards. ‘nuff said.

6. TP going out of the meta. I know it sounds crazy, but honestly, I usually prefer my lane opponents taking ignite. I can play safe and avoid getting cheesed by ignite. I can’t do shit about people TP’ing right in front and snowballing another lane. If it’s like Pantheon, then yeah I hope he’s dumb and takes TP, but I don’t exactly plan on dying to Irelia, ignite or not.

7. Imo, his win rate did not suffer during the Juggernaut Update because Darius and co. were beating his ass. According to champion.gg, Darius was banned in like, ~95% of plat+ games (from my experiences, it was closer to 99% of games down in Silver). Almost all of the most popular Solo-Q bans were top laners. The issue for Nasus was that other strong champions (particularly control mages) that got through bans were being picked in other lanes, and the Nasus player couldn’t be responsible for not letting them get out of hand. Now that top lane bans are less frequent, Nasus players have more control over their fate.

So while it would make my day if Riot decided to buff my favorite doge for some reason, he doesn’t need it. Besides, buffs might make him ban worthy.

But, if Riot did buff/tweak Nasus, these are some suggestions I might reccmmend, keeping in mind that he needs to retain weaknesses, in order of how much effect I think they would have (not all of them would have to be implemented, fyi): --buff his scaling mana pool/regen --reduce the increased mana cost on spirit fire as it levels (70/78/85/93/100) --increase base movespeed to 355 --increase stacks gained from champions from 6 to 15 I have other more complicated ideas, but I don't know if they would be balanced.

CarnariusDec 4, 20151 votes

well, as i said before, it will be hard to imagine for lower elo how things look like in high elo. there is no point on continuing discussion, as there are xx nasus mains in the world that reached at least d1 playing only with him (comparing to millions of players, it is not much), so riot most likely won't change anything, because he is perfectly viable in low diamond and every division below that if you want proof though, watch some sirhcez. recently he is struggling to have positive win ratio with nasus, and he plays on his d3/d4 accounts only. now believe me, there is a HUGE difference between d3 and master/challenger

SaltyKrackaDec 6, 20151 votes

He's probably have less trouble if he stopped going for the dumbass 45% CDR builds.

SasogwaDec 5, 20151 votes

From the games I've had with Nasus, what I think of preseason changes :

Nasus earlygame is worse now. Mostly due to the masteries and champions played, overall they are a bigger menace early on, you will get zoned out of CS more easily and this is especially a problem against people that know what they're doing (so high diamond). He will get dumpstered and zoned out, and with the help of a competent jungler, may get dove and completely shut down for the remaining of the game.

Nasus lategame is actually better. Resists are much stronger than they used to (in late season 5 - Nerfs to Frozen Heart still hurt), thanks to the Last Whisper changes and the Black Cleaver changes. Black cleaver is now way worse than it used to be. So Nasus is tankier and is able to deal more damage in a fight, since he lasts longer (also he can have 45% cdr)

I still think there are some people than can be able to 1v1 Nasus though. Sated things mostly.

YET, the merctreads stupid nerf makes him even easier to kite, which is ridiculous and kinda kills his teamfighting, which was already garbage. That sucks.

CarnariusDec 6, 20151 votes

the only beneficial thing was the change of lw, so he is a bit tankier now, i agree, but the black cleaver still counters all armor users pretty much (no idea why you think it's much worse, bc lost 100 hp and gained 15 ad/500g cost, there were no other changes) other than that, all the aspects of his gameplay are worse

SasogwaDec 6, 20151 votes

{quoted}

the only beneficial thing was the change of lw, so he is a bit tankier now, i agree, but the black cleaver still counters all armor users pretty much (no idea why you think it's much worse, bc lost 100 hp and gained 15 ad/500g cost, there were no other changes) other than that, all the aspects of his gameplay are worse

500 gold is huge and you don't care much about a bit of AD, what's insane with the item is the passive destroying resists. So it's quite a nerf.

The Bearded BardDec 6, 20151 votes

By lategame fantasy do you mean immovable in lane and able to two shot most champions while going toe-to-toe with the rest? Nasus's design is absolutely horrible.

SasogwaDec 6, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Bearded Bard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iMWhH3lH,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2015-12-06T08:24:03.456+0000)

By lategame fantasy do you mean immovable in lane and able to two shot most champions while going toe-to-toe with the rest? Nasus's design is absolutely horrible.

By lategame fantasy, with any logic it doesn't include laning so being immovable in lane has nothing do with it. Btw, if you think Nasus is immovable in lane, you seriously need to train, he's one of the weakest laners atm.