Why do people hate Lee when....

Eedat·Sep 19, 2016·4 votes·1,105 views

he's pretty much just an inferior version of ?

I'm not calling either OP, but I can't wrap my head around why there is an intense hatred for Lee while simultaneously having no problem with Nid.

Pretty much the only reasons to play Lee are 1) He's become a comfort pick for a lot of players. 2) You enjoy playing the champion 3) Nid is banned

I mean both revolve around heavy early pressure, fast clears, and early counter jungling.

Early game pressure:

Early game duelist:

Safe clear:

Fast clear:

Early game damage:

Counter jungling:

Map mobility:

Poke:

All-in:

Zone control:

Vision:

Scaling:

People say his kit is overloaded, but Nid has way more. Only thing Lee has over Nid is suiciding for fancy Insec kicks late game. This is one of the most clear cases of hating a champion because it's popular to hate him I've seen tbh.

51 Comments

Handy Sandy Sep 19, 20163 votes

Because nidalee's main source of damage is in her spear which is really easy to dodge

EedatSep 19, 20162 votes

Because nidalee's main source of damage is in her spear which is really easy to dodge

So what you're saying is if you miss your Q, most of you burst is gone. NOW THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE LEE SIN AT ALL AMIRITE GUYS?!

Handy Sandy Sep 19, 20162 votes

{quoted}

So what you're saying is if you miss your Q, most of you burst is gone. NOW THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE LEE SIN AT ALL AMIRITE GUYS?!

Nidalee's spear is slow than lee sin's Q.

MarshbouySep 19, 20161 votes

and a big thicker of a skillshot too.

Handy Sandy Sep 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So what you're saying is if you miss your Q, most of you burst is gone. NOW THAT DOESNT SOUND LIKE LEE SIN AT ALL AMIRITE GUYS?!

Not really, it's just his gapcloser.

Gary B EnkelisSep 19, 20161 votes

It also does more damage the lower their health.

Jaygo41Sep 19, 20162 votes

You know what else does damage based on missing health?

Nidalee Cougar Form Q. Which also does much increased damage if she landed a spear or some poor soul happened to not see a trap in that bush or was forced to walk over it.

OR she just hits you with it, because who needs abilities to do damage?

TavishSep 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Not really, it's just his gapcloser.

Well if you are going to maximize your damage as Lee using your Q as "just his gapcloser" is not a very good idea. That is why you will see people ward hop in use his ult _then _ Q, because the execute damage. (This can be risky though as it means you are burning your escape, which i think is actually a real cool design choice.) Not saying Lee <<< Nid, just making a clarification :p

dunder killSep 19, 20162 votes

Not sure if troll or serious

MarshbouySep 19, 20161 votes

He's being serious. If you can't land her Q as nid, you shouldn't be playing nid.

dunder killSep 20, 20161 votes

If you can't land her Q as nid, you shouldn't be playing nid.

And if you cant land your Q as Lee you should __________?

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

probably not play lee too. but nidalee doesn't have an AOE knockup.

L Psy KongrooSep 19, 20163 votes

Lee actually crushes Nid in terms of early clear speed and safety because his sustain is more reliable. He also does way better in early duels and ganks because his Q is much easier to land. And even if he misses it, he still has a ward jump into E slow to pull off a gank, whereas Nid just kinda stands around awkwardly if she misses her Q.

EedatSep 19, 20162 votes

Lee actually crushes Nid in terms of early clear speed and safety because his sustain is more reliable

What is more reliable than nid healing herself? What am I reading? Lee is faster than Nid? Have you ever played them?

He also does way better in early duels and ganks because his Q is much easier to land. And even if he misses it, he still has a ward jump into E slow to pull off a gank, whereas Nid just kinda stands around awkwardly if she misses her Q.

You mean he loses all his burst and has to ward hop while Nid can just hop in for free?

This is what I'm talking about. This person literally has NO clue what they're talking about other than that they hate Lee for no reason lol

MarshbouySep 19, 20162 votes

What is more reliable than nid healing herself? What am I reading? Lee is faster than Nid? Have you ever played them?

i've played both. Nidalee far more than lee, but nid's first clear is pretty terrible compared to everything past that. It's still better than most but it's definitely arguable that lee's first clear is better.

You mean he loses all his burst and has to ward hop while Nid can just hop in for free?

boy that 250 range hop sure outclasses the 600 unit one.

This is what I'm talking about. This person literally has NO clue what they're talking about other than that they hate Lee for no reason lol

neither do you.

DISCLAIMER. I am not saying nid sucks. I'm just saying lee isn't as terrible as you say she isn't as good as you say either.

Jaygo41Sep 19, 20162 votes

Kite the camps. You won't lose any health.

Nidalee's jump at 40% CDR is 3 seconds. It straight up DOES outclass the 600 unit one, especially when Lee needs to place a ward which he can run out of.

Nidalee's "outplay potential" or more objectively referred to as "the ability to dodge whatever skillshot an enemy throws" is simply 100% better.

MarshbouySep 19, 20162 votes

[deleted]

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20161 votes

Playing the ranked card would really hurt here, so I won't hurt your feelings.

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

Playing the "has a life" card here would really hurt here, so i won't hurt your feelings.

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20161 votes

Very good one, arguing with people on the internet and claiming the opposing side has no life.

The internet is strong with this one.

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

you are doing the exact same with me.... the only difference is that one has 4.5k hours on league while the other only has 1.5

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20161 votes

and look where 1.5k hours got you

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

It got me enjoyment out of a game. One that im leaving and playing less of now that i stopped enjoying it as much... but where did those 4.5k hours get you?

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20161 votes

Into the top 6.5% of players in the region. Call plat what you want. I also enjoyed my time, made a lot of friends, and I learned a lot about how people respond to setbacks.

Gary B EnkelisSep 20, 20161 votes

Some low ranks are jealous of Plats.

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20162 votes

I don't want to tout the rank card because there are a lot of players that are better than me. But I really do like the idea that because of the curve and pyramid the ranked system creates, plat 5 is like the 90th percentile. Just kinda how it is. But I digress...

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

I'm just messing with you at this point dude. My brain is too tired to formulate a proper response. I'm legit impressed that you got to plat, althought i do still disagree but like i said, im too tired to formulate why in a reasonable manner.

Succubús GFSep 20, 20161 votes

I love how quickly you pull the rank card yet claim to dislike pulling it. Instead of retorting with logical claims you said "I dont want to hurt your feelings with the rank card" Self entitlement is strong with this one

Jaygo41Sep 21, 20161 votes

someone's paying attention, congratulations! you've passed the banter 101 midterm

Succubús GFSep 21, 20161 votes

Wow! Great! I learned how to NOT be an asshole :D thanks so much!

EedatSep 20, 20161 votes

Did I ever say she was OP?

I'm not calling either OP, but I can't wrap my head around why there is an intense hatred for Lee while simultaneously having no problem with Nid.

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

Did i ever say she was bad? Did i ever say lee was op?

DISCLAIMER. I am not saying nid sucks. I'm just saying lee isn't as terrible as you say she isn't as good as you say either.

EedatSep 20, 20161 votes

Yeah this guy is gong to tell me he knows more than me. Then he's going to say

"I have a life lel"

But in reality he's sitting at home on the boards for a game that he apparently doesnt play because he "has a life"

BUT THEN he will STILL claim to know more than me even though he doesnt play the game?

The boards in a nut shell

MarshbouySep 20, 20161 votes

Its pretty easy to know more than someone who knows ntohing

I'm actually doing homework ATM, and just responding to people for like 60 second breaks.

You never actually told me if i said she was op or not tho.

L Psy KongrooSep 19, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What is more reliable than nid healing herself? What am I reading? Lee is faster than Nid? Have you ever played them?

You mean he loses all his burst and has to ward hop while Nid can just hop in for free?

This is what I'm talking about. This person literally has NO clue what they're talking about other than that they hate Lee for no reason lol

Nid's heal is a one-time application that is very minuscule at early levels. Lee gets a huge chunk of spell vamp AND lifesteal for 5 seconds, which translates into more overall healing than Nid's E. Furthermore, after the last Nid nerfs, her clear speed is significantly slower and less safe than Lee's.

As for ganks, the point is that Lee still has ways of making a gank work if he misses Q. Nid does not. She just walks around hoping for someone to get low enough for her to pounce in and steal the kill with a Takedown.

Gary B EnkelisSep 19, 20161 votes

Also LeeSin gets a shield before the spell vamp / life steal, so even less damage needs to be taken.

EedatSep 20, 20161 votes

Good thing Nid disables camps and can turn into a ranged champ and kite

Gary B EnkelisSep 20, 20161 votes

I'm not comparing LeeSin to Nidalee . I'm clarifying LeeSin 's kit.

I don't know much about Nidalee but I think you're right. That's a good point.

Oops. I'm lying. I think I was comparing them. Well anyway, they left out the part about LeeSin getting a shield to negate damage. My statement was true and got somehow downvoted.

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20161 votes

She also gets random attack speed from her heal which makes this easier.

Gary B EnkelisSep 20, 20161 votes

Interesting, but LeeSin gets attack speed from his passive, so does that help?

EedatSep 20, 20161 votes

Nid's heal is a one-time application that is very minuscule at early levels. Lee gets a huge chunk of spell vamp AND lifesteal for 5 seconds,

It's 4 seconds and in that duration you auto attack 2-3 times lol. Q -> Auto -> Auto -> W -> Auto -> Auto -> E -> Auto -> Auto

Funny how you neglect to Nidalee disabling camps and being able to switch to ranged to kite them?

You have absolutely ZERO idea what you are talking about and it is so blatantly obvious that its absurd. This is exactly what is wrong with the community. Take this guy for example. He has obviously never played either one of these champions, yet he feels like he's an authority on how they work. He will argue until he's blue that Lee's clear is better when any competent player who has actually played the champs would laugh at him. After he is called out of his blatant lies, he will continue to defend them to his grave.

L Psy KongrooSep 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

It's 4 seconds and in that duration you auto attack 2-3 times lol. Q -> Auto -> Auto -> W -> Auto -> Auto -> E -> Auto -> Auto

Funny how you neglect to Nidalee disabling camps and being able to switch to ranged to kite them?

You have absolutely ZERO idea what you are talking about and it is so blatantly obvious that its absurd. This is exactly what is wrong with the community. Take this guy for example. He has obviously never played either one of these champions, yet he feels like he's an authority on how they work. He will argue until he's blue that Lee's clear is better when any competent player who has actually played the champs would laugh at him. After he is called out of his blatant lies, he will continue to defend them to his grave.

Nid doesn't actually immobilize monsters anymore............and you say I don't know what I'm talking about? rofl

Jaygo41Sep 19, 20162 votes

I actually cannot believe how blasphemous, ridiculous, stupid, moronic, asinine, and retarded some of these comments are.

I dare you to jungle against a really good Nidalee. It's infuriating. It's not NEARLY as bad as a really good Lee Sin. It simply isn't.

MarshbouySep 19, 20161 votes

Oh yeah cause nid has an AOE knockup and stun, k.

Jaygo41Sep 19, 20161 votes

Who actually cares? Really, who does tho?

Does he have poke that can take 1/2 of any squishy targets' health on a low mana cost, which is then erased by her jungle item?

After she lands that half hp spear, that person is then slowed for a huge amount because item 3116 is abusable. Oh i forgot, she also has item 3025 and item 3001 , so she is very tanky as well.

Lee Sin runs out of wards. Nidalee doesn't run out of jumps. Nidalee can CONSTANTLY reposition and, as the bronzes and silvers like to say, "outplay" her opponents by easily dodging out of the way of any spell that is incoming. That hop IS on that low of a cooldown if you itemize properly. And it jumps walls.

Lee's power is in his auto attacks and ability to cycle spells. Nidalee just needs one, then she can dip out quickly, heal up, and continue abusing her slows. As much as people like to say Nidalee is bad in teamfights, they couldn't be more wrong.

People can act like I'm raging or trying to be biased, but I'm rank 7 on both of them. Please play against people that have a clue what they're doing on these champs and try and convince me that Lee is stronger or just as good as Nidalee. It's simply untrue.

MarshbouySep 19, 20161 votes

Who actually cares? Really, who does tho?

kinda like, everyone.

Does he have poke that can take 1/2 of any squishy targets' health on a low mana cost, which is then erased by her jungle item?

No but he does have huge burst with a Q ward W R Q. It can one shot anyone.

After she lands that half hp spear, that person is then slowed for a huge amount because is abusable. Oh i forgot, she also has and , so she is very tanky as well.

are you saying that lee sin, isn't tanky?

Lee Sin runs out of wards

not really. Green trinket and item 3711 give him almost infinite wards.

Nidalee can CONSTANTLY reposition and, as the bronzes and silvers like to say, "outplay" her opponents by easily dodging out of the way of any spell that is incoming.

bronzie saying that nidalee is easy incoming.

That hop IS on that low of a cooldown if you itemize properly. And it jumps walls.

because lee sin can't jump walls....? It is on a low ish CD, but it makes up for that by being an incredibly tiny distance.

Lee's power is in his auto attacks and ability to cycle spells

are you claiming nidalees power is not in her ability to cycle spells?

Nidalee just needs one, then she can dip out quickly

just one very thing, slow moving, hard to land skillshot. Just one.

continue abusing her slows

that sounds like a rylais problem when you consider that she has no inbuilt CC at all

As much as people like to say Nidalee is bad in teamfights, they couldn't be more wrong

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/cf/cfe1e187cd5703d9d1513ae24937b4839e3a7f1c97972667f576b79a1b2874a6.jpg

People can act like I'm raging or trying to be biased, but I'm rank 7 on both of them. Please play against people that have a clue what they're doing on these champs and try and convince me that Lee is stronger or just as good as Nidalee. It's simply untrue.

it's pretty true tbh. Nidalee isn't miles ahead of lee sin, maybe just a bit, but that's what buffs are for.

Jaygo41Sep 20, 20161 votes

Pls.

Oh man, not his entire kit or anything, including his ultimate.

Only if he buys tank items, Nidalee buys damage and tank items at the same time.

Stop it.

Ive put in a fair bit of work on both Nidalee and Lee Sin and I am certainly not bronze.

Higher CD, also has an energy cost. Which most people think of as ridiculous to mention, except when Nidalee has NO cost at all LUL

Do you have a rebuttal or are you just gonna ask questions?

Or if someone steps on a trap, which aren't easy to see in bushes. Then she bites your head off.

No, definitely not a reason she's broken. This is a discussion about Nidalee. Pay attention.

Play the damn game, you'll see what I mean.

It's no coincidence Nidalee is played so much more than Lee Sin in pros EVEN when Lee Sin is heralded as the pro jungler's dream champ. Nidalee is straight up ridiculous. 51% win rate for a champ that is also touted as being "high skill cap" and "difficult to play." "Just dodge a spear" LUL

Handy Sandy Sep 20, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Who actually cares? Really, who does tho?

Does he have poke that can take 1/2 of any squishy targets' health on a low mana cost, which is then erased by her jungle item?

After she lands that half hp spear, that person is then slowed for a huge amount because is abusable. Oh i forgot, she also has and , so she is very tanky as well.

Lee Sin runs out of wards. Nidalee doesn't run out of jumps. Nidalee can CONSTANTLY reposition and, as the bronzes and silvers like to say, "outplay" her opponents by easily dodging out of the way of any spell that is incoming. That hop IS on that low of a cooldown if you itemize properly. And it jumps walls.

Lee's power is in his auto attacks and ability to cycle spells. Nidalee just needs one, then she can dip out quickly, heal up, and continue abusing her slows. As much as people like to say Nidalee is bad in teamfights, they couldn't be more wrong.

People can act like I'm raging or trying to be biased, but I'm rank 7 on both of them. Please play against people that have a clue what they're doing on these champs and try and convince me that Lee is stronger or just as good as Nidalee. It's simply untrue.

Just because you're mastery 7 doesn't mean anything. Slow spears are still able to be dodged, not saying nidalee is bad or anything but that doesn't mean she's that strong either. Of course if someone knows how to use a champion they'll do good. Maybe you've just never met a good Lee Sin.

ApocylipticSep 19, 20161 votes

Nidalee and Lee are both universally disliked, I'm not sure what point you're trying to prove. Ask anyone on these boards, and most of the time they're going to tell you they don't like playing against either, but dislike lee more.

The reasoning behind it is simple, but nidalee is easier to punish. She may have her jump, but it's not as good as lee's ward hop abilities coupled with his Q and ult, all granting him a pretty easy escape. The only way you kill Lee is him killing himself, as in, him jumping in and using all his cooldowns.

Lee's area of zone is also a lot more extreme than nidalees. He has his Q, ward jump, flash, ultimate which can cover a very large area in almost a second (i.e, insec) and then kicking your carry out of position. Nidalee has her spear, which is much harder to land than Lee's Q, and has no displacement abilities, and her burst is typically flashable while Lee's really isn't if he ults you first.

Also, Lee has a better mid to late game than nidalee does. Nidalee falls off like a brick honestly.