because 
, 
, and several others, are awful.
I wont get into the "toxic gameplay" or "champion health" discussion, or the fact that Crit-Rush Vayne should've never been encouraged by the balance team (cough cough), I'm just bringing awareness to the system of checks and balances that league operates on.
We saw the same thing happen not too long ago when 
became a powerhouse, and that was because several other adcs were nerfed.
That is all
Ahristocats12 votesLucian and cait were both garbage during ardent meta and vayne wasn't played over tristana twitch and kog during ardent meta
the sole reason she's strong now is because tank supports are meta especially alistar
ModKnightsKemplar9 votesOk question: is that Vayne's only way to be strong, then? She's just a great tank buster?
Do you think that's a good place for her to be (healthy for the game, fun, etc.)?
Ahristocats14 votesBeing an anti-tank that is good with tanks is the issue of vayne
Her low range makes her not good with enchanters like Janna who wants to stay behind her But Alistar while being countered by Vayne is also good with Vayne because no one can reach her if he places himself in front of her
the tank meta is not only good for vayne because she can kill them, but also because she gets to be protected
I think riot should make divers like vi/hecarim/renekton good again, but tanks are just better bruisers right now 
Tails90161 votesHer low range
TL;DR at the bottom.
I looked up the exact ranges of every ADC, and isn't 550 average? As in, Vayne has average range?
(Stats taken from wiki)
Kog, Kindred, Sivir, Lucian, 500. 2 people with range extenders and 2 lane bullies. Also Sivir gets a speed boost and Lucian has a dash that can reduce it's cooldown.
Xayah, Jinx ( Fishbones gives extended range) 525. Xayah is supposed to be a lane bully (I think)
Twitch, Ezreal (Lane bully), Corki (mid laner at this point), Kalista (lane bully), Miss Fortune (Lane bully), Jhin (lane bully(?)), Draven (Lane bully), Vayne 550.
Varus 575. Probably supposed to be a lane bully, but everyone I see goes 
first item and starts going all in with ult, little poke.
Ashe 600 (I swear this is an error unless they buffed her from 550, as I recall fighting a Vayne at max range during the summer).
Caitlyn 650. Lane bully.
Tristana 550-669. I have no idea what she is, other than an assassin like Twitch and Vayne (Why are the hyper carries also assassins ( supposed early game monsters)? I don't know, but they are according to the client's champion sorter)
Unless in-game says otherwise (as I don't own vayne, so I can't actually check), her range is average.
Vayne has the same range as most ADC's (says the wiki), and more have lower range than her, compared to those who have more.
Akali is SO HOT12 votesWhen people say Vayne has low range they mean that she has no way to output damage from a far range. All she has for damage is her auto attacks. Jinx has her rockets, Kog has his W, Lucian has Q and Ult, Cait has her Q and Ult, Tristana is Tristana, Ezreal has his Q, etc.
All Vayne has are her auto attacks hence the low range.
Slythion3 votesTL;DR at the bottom.
I looked up the exact ranges of every ADC, and isn't 550 average? As in, Vayne has average range?
(Stats taken from wiki)
Kog, Kindred, Sivir, Lucian, 500. 2 people with range extenders and 2 lane bullies. Also Sivir gets a speed boost and Lucian has a dash that can reduce it's cooldown.
Xayah, Jinx ( Fishbones gives extended range) 525. Xayah is supposed to be a lane bully (I think)
Twitch, Ezreal (Lane bully), Corki (mid laner at this point), Kalista (lane bully), Miss Fortune (Lane bully), Jhin (lane bully(?)), Draven (Lane bully), Vayne 550.
Varus 575. Probably supposed to be a lane bully, but everyone I see goes
Ashe 600 (I swear this is an error unless they buffed her from 550, as I recall fighting a Vayne at max range during the summer).
Caitlyn 650. Lane bully.
Tristana 550-669. I have no idea what she is, other than an assassin like Twitch and Vayne (Why are the hyper carries also assassins ( supposed early game monsters)? I don't know, but they are according to the client's champion sorter)
Unless in-game says otherwise (as I don't own vayne, so I can't actually check), her range is average.
Vayne has the same range as most ADC's (says the wiki), and more have lower range than her, compared to those who have more.
The reason Vayne's range is usually a limitation is because 550 is her max range. Almost every adc has some form of poke or ranged ability to safely farm from or dish damage first, Vayne's furthest form of attack and only real form of dealing damage is her autoattack at 550.
Daddy Ants5 votesTL;DR at the bottom.
I looked up the exact ranges of every ADC, and isn't 550 average? As in, Vayne has average range?
(Stats taken from wiki)
Kog, Kindred, Sivir, Lucian, 500. 2 people with range extenders and 2 lane bullies. Also Sivir gets a speed boost and Lucian has a dash that can reduce it's cooldown.
Xayah, Jinx ( Fishbones gives extended range) 525. Xayah is supposed to be a lane bully (I think)
Twitch, Ezreal (Lane bully), Corki (mid laner at this point), Kalista (lane bully), Miss Fortune (Lane bully), Jhin (lane bully(?)), Draven (Lane bully), Vayne 550.
Varus 575. Probably supposed to be a lane bully, but everyone I see goes
Ashe 600 (I swear this is an error unless they buffed her from 550, as I recall fighting a Vayne at max range during the summer).
Caitlyn 650. Lane bully.
Tristana 550-669. I have no idea what she is, other than an assassin like Twitch and Vayne (Why are the hyper carries also assassins ( supposed early game monsters)? I don't know, but they are according to the client's champion sorter)
Unless in-game says otherwise (as I don't own vayne, so I can't actually check), her range is average.
Vayne has the same range as most ADC's (says the wiki), and more have lower range than her, compared to those who have more.
Yet every other ADC has ability damage that allows them to exceed Vayne's range.
Lucian has a 900 range Q, W and 1200 range ultimate. Ashe has a 1200 range W and a global ultimate. Kog'Maw has a W that scales up to 710 range. Tristana has a passive that scales her up to 669 range over the course of the game. Caitlyn's headshot is like 1300 range and a 2500 range ultimate. Varus has a 1200 range Q Twitch has a 1200 range E. Jinx has a rocket launcher thats 700 range maxed and a global ultimate. Twitch ultimate is like 850 range. Vayne has a 550 range auto attack and a 550 range condemn. Sivir has a 1250 range Q. Ezreal has a 1125 range Q, W and a global ultimate. Kalista has a 1150 range Q and unknown range E. Xayah has a 1100 range Q, E and R.
Rins Thigh Socks3 votesOk question: is that Vayne's only way to be strong, then? She's just a great tank buster?
Do you think that's a good place for her to be (healthy for the game, fun, etc.)?
I mean, if you look at it this way, high elo has much less variance than low elo, so Vayne will always be relatively strong in low elo unless she's just flat out shit.
In high elo, you have to look for how abusable she is. In tank support meta she doesn't really have anyone that can poke her down so she tends to get a free laning phase. It was like this in Season 3 when the only supports were Janna and Thresh. You'll notice how after a slight nerf and Annie's introduction as a support she fell completely off the face of the map. Combine that safety in lane with Overheal and Relic and she just cannot be stopped from farming.
Is that a good place to be? Honestly idk. She's got her own niche and that's what Riot seems to want. The problem is people (Boards users particularly) cannot fathom the concept of an ADC that busts tanks also doing significant damage to them as squishies. They really want to, as mage players, slowly target her with skillshots and hit each one with perfect accuracy while she autos them for 200 each auto.
Personally, I don't mind as long as there's a way to single-handedly burst her as either a mage or assassin (assuming I go in at the perfect time), and with Targon's and GA or QSS or Maw in her build that just doesn't seem to be possible, which is why I think she's too strong. Targon's just provides too much shielding.
NemeBro4 votes[{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-08T19:56:53.994+0000)
Lucian and cait were both garbage during ardent meta and vayne wasn't played over tristana twitch and kog during ardent meta
the sole reason she's strong now is because tank supports are meta especially alistar
It helps that the ardent meta had an abundance of shielding, which counters Vayne's true damage, and that she simply wasn't as safe/long ranged as the meta hypercarries at the time to function as well. Vayne kites and skirmishes in and out of combat to kill individuals. Those three ADCs can sit back and shred entire teams.
I think it's a combination of her counters being bad, tanks being the meta supports, and her spiking too hard at two items personally.
AFilthyCaitMain2 votesCaitlyn and Lucian were both at least playable. Right now, trying to play them is borderline trolling.
Also consider that twitch was super meta in the ardent meta, who outscales vayne
Thefrostyviking1 votesThat and static shiv+IE is pretty dang OP.
Tanks can't really do much against Vayne if she kills the entire enemy backline in a few hits before the tank can get past Vayne´s own peel.
That or she just snowballs and starts 3-4 hitting anything.
AFilthyCaitMain9 votesThis is what ive been thinking for days. Vayne should NOT be getting nerfed. Cait and lucian just need to be buffed back up so her counters actually exist
also remove relic shield from adcs please, makes cait and lucian even WORSE with all that sustain.
Blåbæret3 votesNo, ADCs need to be nerfed to Cait/Lucian levels. If you buff those, you'll just have another season with them dominating. ADCs should all be nerfed until they are no longer mandatory.
PyroLux7 votesAh yes, the classic nerf all adcs until they feel like shit, the PINNACLE of human thinking and the reason riot should hire people like boards posters to balance the game.
Wynterhøwł7 votes[deleted]
Cowseed1 votesTo be fair the mass of players where saying that adcs were broken. Saying they decided the game. The more shields you throw on them the easier you'll win. et etc. I'm pretty confused now.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesMaybe ask high elo players and i mean high master+ what they think about adcs ever since s6. And no i do not mean the four highest ranked challenger who happen to be adc mains.
Yes adcs are broken. For a long time now. As are supports right now.
Oh wait he plays adcs. Never mind guys.
THE RlVER KlNG3 votesyou can't just buff things until everyone is strong we've had two seasons of that and that's why we're in this shitfest of a meta right now as is
just because cait and lucian aren't roflstomping everyone like they used to a season ago doesn't mean we should buff them. and buffing them just to specifically counter vayne whos clearly too strong right now is also a bad idea
lo and behold, op.gg leads me to a cait main, so what can you expect
AFilthyCaitMain2 votesA. The removal of rune resistances hurt caits early game a sht ton paired with her hp nerf
B. Caitlyn feels like she does less damage now? Idk why it is but this is a general consensus among cait mains
C. Theyre both getting outpoked with these new runes.
With all these points considered, I dont think nerfing all other adcs will fix the problem at hand.
D. Just because i main cait doesnt mean my opinion doesnt matter. How about you stop looking people up and just respect their god damn opinion for what it is. If you dont agree just say you disagree, state why, then keep it as is.
To get my point across, lo and behold, op.gg leads me to a tank main, so what can you expect
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesTanks are stronger and other ADC's are doing much more damage. Caitlyn's DPS is average due to her meh AS, since the shift from Runaans she's lost multi-target damage.
Caitlyn's multi-target damage was nerfed, her single target was buffed. Lack of runaan's means she's doing less damage in a teamfight. It's not that she feels like she's doing less damage. She IS. But it's not only due to her as a champion. It's that other champions have been powercreeped. She doesn't synergize that well with the ADC keystones. Tanks now have more available access to armor since the tank update last year and the item that used to make what is essentially a single target ADC a multi-target one no longer synergizes with her kit well enough to be bought everygame.
AFilthyCaitMain1 votesI meant after preseason hit. I played her a lot after her buffs, and even got a 60% winrate on her. But now she feels like she does no damage.
Ahristocats2 votespowercreep is bad
but it isn't bad for adcs :^)
undesirable team6 votescause she does too much amp dmg with 
Slythion5 votes[{quoted}](name=R FLASH EMOTE XD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-01-08T20:30:26.146+0000)
cause she does too much amp dmg with
So does every other adc, so now we're talking about toxic gameplay rather than real balance
Invidie3 votesbecause adc items are so dam cheap
Slythion2 votes[{quoted}](name=I L0ve Senna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-08T19:57:09.922+0000)
because adc items are so dam cheap
That's only a relevant or logical argument if you also explain why it effects Vayne somehow more than other adcs
Invidie1 votesdo you not know vayne can do true damage too? also fleet footwork? insane mobility?
Slythion1 votes[{quoted}](name=I L0ve Senna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-01-08T20:49:29.747+0000)
do you not know vayne can do true damage too? also fleet footwork? insane mobility?
Alright now you're kind of getting there with explaining yourself, but Vayne has always done true damage and had low cd tumbles so now you're just sounding like youre talking about toxic gameplay rather than balance. Also, fleet footwork still applies to all adc's so lets get into a little bit of detail here.
Invidie1 votesulti reset??? invisible for like 10years long???
Slythion1 votes[{quoted}](name=I L0ve Senna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-09T00:01:57.806+0000)
ulti reset??? invisible for like 10years long???
Still stuff she had before she was strong, are you trolling rn cuz I'm actually trying to have a decent balance discussion with people
Invidie1 voteshello????? her ulti reset/ increased time is very recent, increased armor/base ad, q can crit(which it wasnt able to long ago)????
Slythion1 votesnone of this explains her consistently rising win rate since 7.21
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=I L0ve Senna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-09T02:42:40.272+0000)
hello????? her ulti reset/ increased time is very recent, increased armor/base ad, q can crit(which it wasnt able to long ago)????
Q can't crit since 7.19
HalcyonDweller2 votesTechnically speaking Vayne is a late-game ADC. The more stats she has the closer she is to late-game. Being able to achieve late-game builds earlier in the game because the items are cheaper does benefit her more than other marksmen who are not as much of a hypercarry as vayne is.
TsunamiSS3 votesNot sure why Lucian gets so much hate on these boards. Yes, he is an absolute nuisance in lane and is rather mobile. However, he does not crit 3/4th of your health away in 1-2 autos, is gated somewhat by mechanics (an optimal DPS rotation requires adequate AA animation canceling), and is easier to shut down because of his short range.
So in other words, I agree with OP.
SpecterVonBaren5 votesPeople often hate on Lucian because for the longest time he was just the go to "pick into any comp" ADC. He was such a generally viable pick that it took about three years of nerfs/buffs/tweaks till LCS players finally stopped picking him.
Cowseed1 votesSo the classic "I hate it because it's popular"? sigh
SpecterVonBaren1 votesI wouldn't describe it that way. The problem is he had no real significant strength back then but also had no real weakness either, meaning you could just pick him with any comp and do well and thus didn't need to worry about some kind of counter pick against your bot lane.
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesHe's just a disdainable champion.
When a champion is such a viable an go-to pick for far too long people become sick of them.
Lil Homie busta2 votesLook, i'm not a expert in the area, but i'm pretty sure that Vayne exceptionally abusing PTA and RFC+Stattik+IE combo (more than any other ADC can) has something to do with her big win/play ratios as well:
Daddy Ants1 votes[{quoted}](name=Lil Homie busta,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iG8aVoGY,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-01-08T23:16:36.293+0000)
Look, i'm not a expert in the area, but i'm pretty sure that Vayne exceptionally abusing PTA and RFC+Stattik+IE combo (more than any other ADC can) has something to do with her big win/play ratios as well:
I haven't used PTA at all since Fleet was buffed.
GayFluffyUnicorn1 votesNoone uses pta.
DoktorKaiser2 votesI know its unheard of and I honestly think that even with this ridiculous change she would still be broken as fuck just because of her cancerous kit, but she should be the first champion in the game to not be able to crit. Jhin can't build attack speed, Cass can't buy boots, I think we should push that idea forward to restrict gamebreaking kits that obviously have no counterplay but won't get rework. That is the absolutely only way to push her off her build, because why wouldn't you build 100% crit and tumble burst everything on the map ?? Similar idea I had is Yasuo being restricted from lifesteal... Now downvote me you bastards :D
Slythion1 votesAn interesting idea, I'm not sure how that would translate into the game without thinking about it for awhile. That's a lot of wasted stats that she may need compensation for, and idk how great that would be when considering her already "toxic kit" reputation
idk for sure though
