PSA: It's APC Ziggs*

Slythion·Jan 3, 2017·127 votes·4,595 views

not adc, it's either APC, or better yet, Bot Ziggs

that is all, thanks :-)

48 Comments

SmileInABoxJan 3, 201720 votes

I honestly think "Bot lane Ziggs" is the best way to put it. If it becomes more of a trend, then APC may become a better term.

Weasel KenseiJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

I honestly think "Bot lane Ziggs" is the best way to put it. If it becomes more of a trend, then APC may become a better term.

Not sure where you guys have been, but the concept of bot APC or Ability Power Carry (as oposed to Attack Damage Carry) is old hat. Iv seen it several times in season 5. Less so after Marksman rework tho.

SlythionJan 4, 20171 votes

all I was saying is that it's known as APC Ziggs because he does not build AD and therefor can't be an ADC as so many have been calling him...that's pretty much all I said in this post, idk how you got something else.

Except if your only referring to SmileInABox, in which case it should be known that APC is not a common term at all which is why "bot ziggs" is probably the better option until apc becomes popular

Weasel KenseiJan 4, 20172 votes

Yes I know what your saying. I guess I should have been more direct. You cant give a PSA on what something is called to correct stupid poeople calling something by a wrong lable... cause they are stupid.

People who call a Ziggs bot lane ADC are stupid, no sense bothering with them. Anyone who knows what stuff is called is already calling an AP champ an APC cause they use AP to carry and not AD. Telling people theyre doing it wrong on the internet really never solves any problems. Its just best to let them be wrong.

This community in particular cant be told anything most of the time.

An example of what telling someone in league theyre doing/saying it wrong brings:

Yasuo OH BOY! There is some lose change in the bottom of this blender... Soraka Dont try to get it, youll just grind your fingers up. Yasuo YOUR NOT MY REAL DAD!! (rams hand into blender) Yasuo OH IT HURTS, RAKA HEAL ME! PLEASE!! Soraka ... yeah no... Yasuo Why? Soraka You intentionally did something that would hurt yourself to spite me... and besides you cant heal stupid.

Anyway, let people call him ADC... its wrong, but if they cared to think about for a fraction of the time you spent typing the PSA they would already know to call him "Bot APC."

Jet SettJan 4, 20171 votes

Usually the APC is mid or sometimes jungle. Even top in the cases of Vladimir, Ryze, and Swain. But I suppose that makes the title "ADC" just as redundant since most marksmen build AD regardless of their lane.

DanjengJan 3, 201710 votes

I wonder if APC Ziggs is the start of a new meta. I can imagine Bot Azir. His secondary is a marksman after all. Good zoning works great for 2v2's. His passive ability is more relevant than ever, because of the 5 man clusterfucks happening in botlane. First tower blood? Put up another turret. Exciting times.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJan 3, 20171 votes

It's been done, building him full attack speed and magic penetration.

B1naryB0tJan 4, 20172 votes

It's mostly been gutted though since they took any power to take towers with your soldiers now tho.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJan 4, 20171 votes

Yep, but it's still fine for Ziggs to do!

B1naryB0tJan 4, 20171 votes

Do you remember the old meta of having Ziggs buy Chalice and waveclear for 40 minutes? Riot remembers that too. As such, they shifted his identity from protecting his towers to tearing down others.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJan 5, 20171 votes

I actually don't remember that! I played ranked first in season 5.

B1naryB0tJan 5, 20171 votes

Well that's impressive, starting in Season 5 and not hating this game. Either way, you missed out on a pretty shitty meta where ziggs/gragas would waveclear midlane all game, have a teamfight at 40 minutes and win the game.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJan 6, 20171 votes

XD that sounds horrendous lol.

Side note: why are you surprised that I still like the game since I started in season 5?

B1naryB0tJan 6, 20171 votes

Season 5 was probably one of the worst seasons in terms of balance and fun IMO. You got stuff like the cinderhulk meta, the bruiser/juggernaut meta, the 5 dragon stacking system... shudder

It was the birth of toplane yasuo who built bruiser item 3078 item 3022 item 3068 item 3053 Tank ekko Devourer jungles Sejuani bending people over every game THE 5 DRAGON STACKING SYSTEM CAUSE FUCK THAT

Generally the champs played and how they were played were pretty toxic. Even more so than ziggs in s4.

PlsTouchMeGentlyJan 7, 20171 votes

ooooo okay haha XD i loved devourer so much, though. I understood why it needed to go, but still :-(

LordOfTheLeagueJan 4, 20171 votes

And the attack speed steriod with the ap on hit from ap on towers?

blueberrypancakeJan 4, 20171 votes

I'd personally prefer Kennen, but it would probably be broken.

LordOfTheLeagueJan 4, 20171 votes

What about cassiopeia. Imagine this champ with a support that lock her target with a cc (nami or leona for example) with a cc for a free poison spell followed by e spam. Or even better an easy follox up ulti stun.

CerealBoxOfDoomJan 3, 20175 votes

Oh, now it sounds a lot less stupid.

APCs should go bot sometimes I think.

SanKakUJan 4, 20174 votes

Yeah it really triggers me when people call me ADC Veigar or ADC Viktor. Just because I want farm instead of levels does not make me suddenly scale with AD.

Professor WardJan 3, 20173 votes

Not if you build him to really take towers :D

item 3078 item 3508 item 3094

King MerlinJan 3, 201735 votes

item 3100 item 3165 item 3158 ^Definitely more suited to his kit.

Weasel KenseiJan 4, 20177 votes

correct, lichbane makes him crush towers better. Since its AP that makes him chunk structures... not AD and attack speed like KennyLay suggested.

My typical Ziggs full build is:

item 3040 item 3165 item 3135 item 3285 item 3089 item 3020 with the rest of the CDR in scaling runes.

When late game comes its doing about 800+ damage to towers with my passive procs.

When the Ziggs rework first came down I did try it with item 3100 and found it to be the most powerful way to chunk towers. Then of course its the best way for any APC to chunk towers, but it goes with his passive.

The main reason I dont build it much on him, or any imobile mage, is because you cant always get close enough for basic attacks in a fight, and the gold spent on the item goes to waste. Ludens E. though gives bonus AP scaling and can proc from safe distances... just not on towers tho like Lich B.

SzGamer227Jan 4, 20172 votes

Playing Ziggs bot lane:

Build pure AP item 3165 item 3285 item 3089 item 3135 Deal 800 damage to towers with 1 auto attack

Build Lich Bane item 3100 Deal 300 more damage with your autos every time you cast a spell

AhristocatsJan 4, 20171 votes

that's not how it works

the autoattack AP ratio on towers is 50%

DevilishMetalJan 5, 20172 votes

Think he's talking about his passive

arc95Jan 3, 20173 votes

Yes Ive been apc Teemoing since I started playing dont put that disrepeck on me calling it an adc [slayer-jinx-wink]

ElfadorJan 4, 20173 votes

adc is the accepted term to describe the bot lane champion who is not a support. Technically, it means something else, but everyone who isn't trying to be a smart ass will understand what you mean when you say you want to play Ziggs adc.

badoogaJan 4, 20171 votes

If it was, you'd see Riot use "ADC" instead of "Bot" in Draft/Ranked mode. ADC is just so widely used due to the supreme dominance of marksmen who are also called attack damage carries, which is longhand for ADC.

TyrekGoldenspearJan 3, 20172 votes

Ooooh.

This makes way more sense.

I guess we get an AD carry midlane then to have some Physical damage in the team?

Chamuel85Jan 3, 20172 votes

Varus Yasuo Jayce Pantheon Talon Zed have been pretty common in the past and are effective I think.

AuroramancerJan 4, 20172 votes

Gets really tiring to see people's thinking being constrained to a cookie cutter mold.

They think farming-champion in bot lane = ADC, and non-farming-champion in bot lane = Support.

A farming Ziggs in bot lane =/= ADC, and a non-farming Brand in bot lane =/= Support.

They are just "mages in the bot lane".

KoKobotoJan 4, 20172 votes

I think carry Ziggs is the best way to put it. In Dota you can play some heroes in carry position or off-lane position or whatever and it makes more sense

GeminiRuneJan 3, 20171 votes

In that case, would mid lane mages be called APCs?

5000000000000000Jan 3, 20172 votes

Mid lane mages have been called APCs for a while now. The name isn't as popular as "mage," though.

TheGoomyGamerJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

In that case, would mid lane mages be called APCs?

That's what they are called if they go full damage

GeminiRuneJan 4, 20172 votes

I never hear that unless the champion is played in bot lane

FourVsFiveJan 4, 20171 votes

How about we just call it BC for bottom carry. APC does not say you are bot lane, and bot ziggs could also mean support ziggs, as you not identifying the carry part.

SlythionJan 4, 20171 votes

because "mage" usually covers the term for mid lane and "carry" usually covers the term for the bot lane damage dealer, in which case the "ap/ad" covers what kind of damage dealer they are.

bot = adc/apc because that's the term that is listed in the league clients while

support = ...support because that's the term listed in the client

basically:

mage = mage

carry = bot carry (where ap/ad is used to describe damage type)

support = support

it's just the language that the community uses and it'd better to not start making up new terms, but to simply adapt the currently used ones

china is problemJan 4, 20171 votes

{quoted}

because "mage" usually covers the term for mid lane and "carry" usually covers the term for the bot lane damage dealer, in which case the "ap/ad" covers what kind of damage dealer they are.

bot = adc/apc because that's the term that is listed in the league clients while

support = ...support because that's the term listed in the client

basically:

mage = mage

carry = bot carry (where ap/ad is used to describe damage type)

support = support

it's just the language that the community uses and it'd better to not start making up new terms, but to simply adapt the currently used ones

And TANK = nerver possible die in late game 1vs 9 easy (riot game : say soz big monster tank)

TurquoiseYoshiJan 4, 20171 votes

I've been a fan of BLC (Bot Lane Carry) ever since Morde introduced non-AD bot laners into the major mix.

1 800 MID LANEJan 4, 20171 votes

Azir

I've done it on multiple occasions. I don't have a great W/L with it, but it's 50%+. More early damage than most ADCs, MUCH better waveclear, pretty decent at taking turrets because he builds item 3115 , and he's 10x safer than most ADCs.

Take him against any ADC without a dash and laugh at them.

Miku AppendJan 4, 20171 votes

If that's the case, I'm going Ahri or Syndra APC bot.

salty testiJan 4, 20171 votes

[deleted]

badoogaJan 4, 20172 votes

ADC stands for "attack damage carry", meaning that they build AD. Ziggs builds AP, not AD, so he's an APC, or "ability power carry".

salty testiJan 5, 20171 votes

[deleted]

badoogaJan 5, 20171 votes

No, ADC is someone that builds AD, but is commonly used to describe Marksman that usually go bot lane. But Ziggs builds AP, so he's an APC. Did you even read what I wrote?