Early game jungle invades are becoming a little too safe

Yenn··3 votes·547 views

Primarily because of how much mobility there is in the game and how dangerous many jungles' clears are now.

Jungle match ups are already extremely binary (you either can or can't 1v1 the other jungle, with skill being largely irrelevant), but with safe and mobile jungles, invasions are often becoming either a guaranteed kill or buff steal with little to no risk.

For champions with unsafe clears and laners who can't respond to an invasion, jungling is extremely frustrating, and they can be almost entirely shut down by aggressive junglers with stronger early games, preventing them from even reaching their late game.

Especially at Diamond, if I'm playing something like Diana, it's often not even a question of 'will the enemy Lee Sin invade me?' because the answer is usually yes, because there's only potential benefit.

If I started at bottom, the only potential outcomes are that he last hits the buff from me, he forces my flash, or he kills me. If I ward and see him coming and lanes react instantly, he's still very likely going to either steal the buff or force my flash, while getting out safely thanks to Safeguard. If he notices that my lanes are reacting and leaves, he knows I have no ward to cover my second buff and can just follow up there. If I start at the other buff, he can just take the buff and retreat, denying me the second buff.

Can we consider making changes to mitigate this problem? Possibly reduced damage taken in your team's side of the jungle for the first 5 minutes of the game?

11 Comments

Theseepingdragon2 votes

its easy to deny counter invades and at d5 it shouldnt be very hard since the players still suck. Im playing shyv/vi in the same elo with 0 problems. If you cant use the champions that have a rough early game early then idk what to tell ya but get better lol. Same with kayle jungle super bad early unless you know how to actually do a clear vs a jungler that can skirmish you.

Yenn2 votes

{quoted}

its easy to deny counter invades and at d5 it shouldnt be very hard since the players still suck. Im playing shyv/vi in the same elo with 0 problems. If you cant use the champions that have a rough early game early then idk what to tell ya but get better lol. Same with kayle jungle super bad early unless you know how to actually do a clear vs a jungler that can skirmish you.

> Silver II

If I have lanes that can't meaningfully react (poor mobility, countered by their lane opponent, poor single target damage), there's no way to counter early invades. The best they can do is walk towards me, get intercepted by their lane opponent, and die because they're too far from their tower. If their lane opponent somehow doesn't react, many jungles have enough mobility to still get out safely.

Theseepingdragon1 votes

because it has to be my main if im posting on it Kappa. I think you just suck. If you dont think so play it from the other side go play the movement speed junglers you speak of and abuse it (^: btw your facing high plats those dip shits dont know how to invade if dandy himself tried to teach them.

Nyaboron1 votes

Don't get rekt. Start opposite side or let laners know ahead of time so that you can kill the lee. Either deny him the fight or prepare for an ambush. Lee is very powerful early, it's his identity. You can't take that away, you have to play around it like you have to play around a malphite ult.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

{quoted}

its easy to deny counter invades and at d5 it shouldnt be very hard since the players still suck. Im playing shyv/vi in the same elo with 0 problems. If you cant use the champions that have a rough early game early then idk what to tell ya but get better lol. Same with kayle jungle super bad early unless you know how to actually do a clear vs a jungler that can skirmish you.

Obviously you wouldn't have any problems with dealing with potential counterjunglers or fighting the enemy jungler when you play Shyvana/Vi. I can't say to much of Vi since I don't play her to much (I actually play her top some times) but Shyvana is a very fast clear with possibly one of the best dueling potential out of all the junglers, she would never have problems with a champion like Lee sin.

Theseepingdragon1 votes

her early clear isnt as spectacular as it seems and early red invade by a good lee sin would fuck me 10/10 times. I agree later you are correct I will fuck him but we are talking about the early game and being invaded. There are a reason champions are meta and better than others when you try to play something like dianna jungle you are asking for anyone to poop on you shes just not good anymore. But I dont see it a problem being the fast clear junglers invading. Any Jungler with cc and alot of early damage will always be the best in solo que because its solo que.

jaymc11301 votes

Try starting at an enemy buff Yenn. This was so problematic that I now never ever ever start at my own bot side unless I get spotted out trying to steal the top side enemy buff to start the match.

Solved all my problems.

Yenn1 votes

{quoted}

Try starting at an enemy buff Yenn. This was so problematic that I now never ever ever start at my own bot side unless I get spotted out trying to steal the top side enemy buff to start the match.

Solved all my problems.

That's great, except when they have it warded or are waiting at it and you die.

Yenn1 votes

Rofl. Currently in a game as Diana. My entire jungle is being denied by Nidalee. I'm two full levels behind. I have Akali top and Syndra mid, they can't get to her in time to stop her.

Nidalee is taking more of my jungle than I am.

Yenn1 votes

Invaded 100% of the time as everything but Udyr in my past 10 games as jungle. Thanks, Riot.

Yenn1 votes

Playing Diana, pretty sure the enemy Nunu took more of my jungle than I did, including 50% of my camps before I even hit 6.

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