I'm not "jumping on the Ahri bandwagon". I'm just giving my ideas for a small nerf.

koshkyra·Mar 21, 2017·14 votes·1,496 views

Everyone's been complaining about Ahri lately. I think she's mostly fine, but there are some unnecessary things in her kit.

Movement Speed on her Q

There's really no reason for this and it's pretty unescessary. It gives her a really good escape because she apparentally doesn't have enough forms of getting away .

Charm Duration increase amount per level

One second is enough for an effect so, well, effective. I don't know why it has to literally double when it gets leveled up. It should be something like 1 second to 1.4 seconds instead of 1 to 2.

All foxfires prioritize champions

I'm not saying that they should completely ignore champions and go for the minion wave, but only 1-2 should prioritize champions instead of all of them.

These are just my two-cents, they are not a "strong and unchangeable opinion" about Ahri.

40 Comments

LuggMar 22, 20175 votes

Ahri has the same problem as EVERY high mobility champion, they pay nothing in their kits for having mobility. That's why all of them are OP/broken/toxic.

chipndip1Mar 22, 20175 votes

Ahri's burst damage, for a mage, is low and slow. She pays in damage for her mobility. You can't feel that if she's fed though.

LuggMar 23, 20173 votes

How can you say it's low and slow when she can 100-0 you during the duration of her charm?

She gets fed because she is OP and very forgiving if you screw up with her.

chipndip1Mar 23, 20174 votes

Ahri's burst combo is low and slow comparative to any other burst mage. If she gets a few kills, yeah, she'll 100 -> 0 you. Before that? She has to land poke, then land the charm while you're chipped, then dance around you trying to finish you with her R spam, W shots, and landing both hits of Q...which at least that part isn't hard when you're charmed, but that part's the hardest hitting part of her kit with the true damage on it.

LuggMar 25, 20171 votes

If she hits you with her charm to start, she can easily hit you with her entire kit. Plus don't forget that any decent Ahri will have ignite as well. This combo will kill the majority of mids 100-0.

chipndip1Mar 26, 20171 votes

Doesn't refute the notion of "Ahri's damage output is lower and slower IN COMPARISON TO OTHER BURST MAGES."

LuggMar 26, 20171 votes

Veigar good luck out bursting this guy

chipndip1Mar 26, 20171 votes

...so you're agreeing with me?

LuggMar 26, 20171 votes

No, a combo is burst damage. An ahri that takes you from 100-0 is no different than a Veig doing it, but the Ahri has the safety as well.

chipndip1Mar 26, 20171 votes

And Veigar HAS MORE DAMAGE DONE IN A SHORTER SPAN OF TIME.

If you can't understand this then stop responding to me. WE. KNOW. AHRI. IS. SAFER. ALREADY.

LuggMar 26, 20171 votes

Then why are you even arguing with me if you know I'm right? LOL

chipndip1Mar 26, 20171 votes

This is what you replied to when you started this idiotic tangent.

{quoted}

Ahri's burst damage, for a mage, is low and slow. She pays in damage for her mobility. You can't feel that if she's fed though.

From the jumping point, it was well pointed out that Ahri is a safer pick than other burst mages, but her burst isn't as heavy as them, either. Why are you harping on her "being safe" WHEN THIS IS ALREADY STATED BY THE PERSON YOU'RE SAYING IT TO? Are you THAT bad at reading?

Like, at this point, what is your point? That Ahri can maybe kill someone if they get hit by E, 3 W bolts, both hits of Q, and 3 hits of R laced with Ignite and some AAs?

LuggMar 27, 20171 votes

You have completely missed the point of what I said from the beginning. It doesn't matter at all if her damage is less if she gets the 100-0. You are still dead. If you have 8k health and she does 8k damage and another mage does 15k damage, there is literally no difference since you are still dead. It's just that Ahri is still the safe pick with no real counters in the game at all.

chipndip1Mar 28, 20171 votes

Except there IS a difference.

Someone that kills you nearly instantaneously after being cc'd, like Syndra, offers WAY less counter-play than someone that kills you by steadily landing chunks of their rotation, like Ahri. There's room for intervention in Ahri's chain of spells. If someone like Lux, Veigar, Syndra, Annie, or whoever else lands their confirm, if they have the damage to kill you, you're clean done. That's the trade-off. Ahri has to dance around you for a bit. Other burst mages simply kill you off of confirms.

SwarovskoMar 23, 20174 votes

She can't 100-0 you unless fed lmao stop lying

LuggMar 25, 20171 votes

Once she hits level 6 with her ult, she can easily do a minimum of 800 damage with her combo, and that doesn't even factor in if she ignites you, which any decent Ahri will do.

chipndip1Mar 25, 20172 votes

Like mid laners only have 800 hp.

LuggMar 25, 20171 votes

Most only have 800-900 at level 6 unless they buy a health item.

chipndip1Mar 26, 20172 votes

800 with no resistances or mouse to dodge her Q with or fall back while she sits there spamming R all over the joint. Meanwhile other burst mages LITERALLY remove you from the game in less than a second if they hit a confirm, which is the point of what I said, which was never refuted.

LuggMar 26, 20171 votes

Good luck dodging that Q while charmed. As for mages who one shot you, that's a different topic, we are talking about one of the safest champs in the game being able to do it.

chipndip1Mar 26, 20171 votes

WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT HER STUPID CHARM.

The point: In comparison to burst mages, which she IS, she has less burst in a significantly longer rotation. She's safe. Yeah, we all know. She pays for that safety by sacrificing her damage output in comparison to those in her class. What, she's supposed to tickle you softly because she has dashes in her ult? Stop dancing around what I'm saying to say things I already said as if it refutes what I said.

LuggMar 26, 20171 votes

It doesn't matter at all if the rotation is longer when it's impossible to get away from it. If she was immobile, there wouldn't be any problem. The problem is that she does just enough damage that you can't ever get away without dying if she just lands one ability on you. At least if a Vieger stuns me, I can flash away and probably live.

chipndip1Mar 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

It doesn't matter at all if the rotation is longer when it's impossible to get away from it.

Yes it does, because it gives more time to counter it by hitting her yourself. She's part assassin, if you forgot. Of course she's gonna stick.

If she was immobile, there wouldn't be any problem.

Yes there will be, because if you're someone like Syndra then everyone complains that you destroy them with no counter-play. Ahri's rotation is slower and relies on multiple parts that can miss, giving more room for counter-play and is thus generally healthier in the game, even if it lends itself to winning more due to being a "die less" pick.

The problem is that she does just enough damage that you can't ever get away without dying if she just lands one ability on you. At least if a Vieger stuns me, I can flash away and probably live.

If Veigar stuns you you're most likely dead if he's fed, has ignite, or you took a tad bit of chip damage. If Ahri stuns you, you can still hard cc her back, flash away, Exhaust, or whatever else to stop her in the middle of spamming all her shit to eventually kill you.

Now, if she chipped you a bit, then yeah, she'll have an easier time killing you, but you act like Ahri does more damage than VEIGAR of all champions. Your claims are legitimately ridiculous from their core foundation onwards because they're inflated with blind hyperbole.

The Sword SaintMar 23, 20174 votes

Sounds like you are uninformed or have just not been around for long enough, based on the way you phrased a lot of that.

She used to have a 2 second charm at all ranks for a long time. During a previous nerf it was made so that she only had half the charm time at rank 1, scaling up. It's not 'doubling for leveling the skill', it's the skill losing half of its cc early and getting it back later - literally the opposite of what you are saying.

During previous iterations of ahri, riot experimented with pushing her towards different kinds of play styles. They tried the standard mage thing, then they tried the assassin thing (they even made her charm cause the target to take % increased damage for a while), finally they said 'we think ahri is healthiest as a kiting mage' and took damage away from her in exchange for give her the Q movespeed to help her kite people around and get multiple spell rotations off without being ult reliant to kite.

Neither of those parts of ahri kit are thrown in there randomly, they were deliberately made that way during very visible updates where rioters were very vocal and open to the community about their balancing decisions.

Foxfire is already unreliable, each foxfire has its own small lock on radius around the fire as it rotates around ahri and if an enemy champion isn't basically in melee range from ahri when she activates her w in lane, the spell is almost a complete waste of mana as it will already fire at minions. During teamfights there are rarely any minions around anyway.

I suggest you do a bit more research about a champion before throwing out suggestions. As a protip - hacking away at mechanical aspects of a kit are the very absolute last things you want to consider touching on a champion to balance them if it is at all possible to bring them in line with base damage, ratios, or other minor changes. If your 'proposed buff/nerf' is going to have an impact on how someone is supposed to play the champion at all then you are looking in the wrong direction if the champion is healthy but just has a high winrate.

Kukan SeishinMar 26, 20171 votes

Preach

Unlucky47Mar 22, 20173 votes

I'm fucking pissed. Did you read my thread? These are the exact same ideas from my thread that got 16 downvotes in 20 minutes. Whatever I don't care as long as Ahri gets nerfed.

chipndip1Mar 22, 20173 votes

Ahri's W does moderately reduced damage after the first ball. Why nerf her W to the point of being an auto?

If they had to nerf anything, I'd make her Q's movement speed boost increase with level or increase the early cd on her ult. The Q movement speed is meant to reinforce Ahri being a more mobile, slippery mage. Without it, she's basically "Boomerang Lux" in a sense until she ults. Her speed is key to her character, but it doesn't have to be insanely potent early.

That's my two cents.

koshkyraMar 22, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Ahri's W does moderately reduced damage after the first ball. Why nerf her W to the point of being an auto?

If they had to nerf anything, I'd make her Q's movement speed boost increase with level or increase the early cd on her ult. The Q movement speed is meant to reinforce Ahri being a more mobile, slippery mage. Without it, she's basically "Boomerang Lux" in a sense until she ults. Her speed is key to her character, but it doesn't have to be insanely potent early.

That's my two cents.

How are these nerfs?

chipndip1Mar 22, 20172 votes

Nerf her early Q speed up buff and have it scale back up to its current effectiveness, and/or nerf her early ult cds. Point is that she won't be AS safe early in the game, so if she plays reckless early, it's easier to kill her. Maybe I worded it poorly.

LyingOnLineMar 22, 20172 votes

Screw jumping on the bandwagon.

I am the bandwagon.

And Ahri needs hecka nerfs.

LuggMar 23, 20172 votes

I have been playing League for about 5 years and I can't ever remember Ahri not being one of the top 10 mid picks.

DuskDaUmbreonMar 23, 20171 votes

I assume you can't remember…oh. Was it season 4? I remember that there was a season her win rate was abysmal in...

LuggMar 25, 20171 votes

It was considered abysmal because it was lower than it had ever been. It was still around 49% if I remember correctly, which isn't bad at all for a highly played champ.

MuffledGarbageMar 22, 20171 votes

I would say nerf her base attack speed so it's more average to other midlaners.

Her base attack speed is pretty high which gives her an easier/faster possible level 2

Other than that I wouldn't say she's out of this world overpowered.

I'd say she's more like a toned down midlane Pantheon in that she has one basic combo.

She'll poke you with easy to hit moves.

She's super safe and can roam very well.

She just has a way better lategame than Pantheon and a weaker earlygame.

But tool-wise I'd say they are similar

And that's all I can really bring to the table because that's my only huge gripe with ahri.

GlîtchyMar 26, 20171 votes

Instead of worrying ONLY about Ahri, why not these guys as well?

Shaco Talon Darius Fizz Evelynn Ziggs

koshkyraMar 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Instead of worrying ONLY about Ahri, why not these guys as well?

Because you get called a "bronze noob" for complaining about them

"Learn counterplay" is like the only other thing you'll hear for complaining about them

GlîtchyMar 26, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because you get called a "bronze noob" for complaining about them

"Learn counterplay" is like the only other thing you'll hear for complaining about them

Kinda hard to counterplay Talon since he gets a MASSIVE spike at Lv.2

Evelynn's stealth is odd, as she's only visible once she's in range to burst.

Shaco, can go tank AND burst without building a large amount of offense

Darius' ult resets if it kills, a bit muc hfor someone with an INCREDIBLY high damage output

Fizz can dodge EVERYTHING every 4-6 seconds without an ult.

Ziggs destroys turrets instantly if they're at 30% HP.

koshkyraMar 26, 20171 votes

Yes, yes. I agree with ALL of this. But still, you get "flamed" for making posts about these people. So I choose not to because nothing good will come out of it.

VoraciousXMar 27, 20171 votes

Alright, you think the utility shouldn't be removed, how about the true damage? That's kind of a pointless part of her kit and it makes building MR less effective against her. I used to love Ahri, but I've been growing tired of seeing her overplayed for her safety and usefulness for a while(Do you know how rare it was to not see Ahri in Blood Moon? I saw maybe 2 games without her). This won't nerf that, but considering you think her Q speed up is integral to her(It's not, iirc they only added that to compensate for a change in her charm that made it where it didn't stop dashes, but she was doing fine before that change). She doesn't need true damage, and any Ahri that lands a charm is guaranteed that true damage to begin with. Dunno how hard it'd effect her, but at least building MR would be more effective.

I don't think she needs a Q speed up personally, she already has enough slipperiness in her kit, and her Q already goes through minions. Why should she have something like that when she can already poke from safely behind a minion wave. I mean yeah, teamfights are different but she usually is using her ult during that anyways. It's a little over the top. But if the speed up in her kit is required to her character, the true damage is not, since it has no effect on being a "kiting slippery mage".