Thoughts and Discussion: Teemo

Stacona··5 votes·821 views

I really need people to properly share their thoughts here, this is a serious post about Teemo because he is an actual champion and more than a meme and a mascot people! Do need to know what you actually think of Teemo as a champion and your likes and dislikes about him, because not saying anything does not give feedback to help improve on things for the future.

General ideas with Teemo in my opinion:

~ The memes give players a false idea of what Teemo actually is. He is a traditional basic attacking marksman with very strong tactical and vision gameplay, he mushrooms vision and slow really control areas for his team which is also a cool point about Teemo. ~ ~ ~ Better emphasis on Teemo being his already unique vision and map control self

~ Teemo has a slightly outdated kit, 500 range for an immobile hyper marksman made sense with his Move Quick back in season 1 when the game was a lot less mobile, now with a bunch of dash champions added and lane bullies Teemo really gets beat on early game. (We can better tune as well to not have him be so dominant in the early game with some ranged vs melee match-ups; no reason to why one marksman is played top and the other played in the duo-lane, especially since there are other marksmen that are better solo laners than Teemo anyways)

~ Invisible mushroom is fine. Invisible mushroom with Liandry's Torment chunking you to half health is not fine, but I think their warfare and land mine gameplay is a cool part about Teemo. So better counterplay and to give Teemo power elsewhere in his kit his mushrooms should have their chunking ability removed, but they can still have the potential to execute enemies i.e. damage on a certain % health threshold, rather than damage all the time; with damaging to minions and monsters all the time for the option to use a mushroom for waveclear.


Basic Attack Range: 575 units [from 500; only change to stats, well maybe slightly more level 1 base AD so Teemo matches the other marksmen on average (Teemo currently has pretty low base AD for a marksman)]


Tactical Sweep (Passive): Range: 800 units If Teemo stands still for 1.5 seconds or is in brush for 1.5 seconds he turns invisible indefinitely, Teemo can move around without breaking his invisibility while inside brush. Teemo can cast Noxious Trap without breaking his invisibility.

While invisible Teemo can see past terrain and into brush a short distance away.

Upon exiting invisibility Teemo gains 45/60/75/90/105/120% bonus movement speed for 3 seconds, this bonus is lost if he takes champion or tower damage. If Teemo stands still while this bonus is still in effect then he turns invisible immediately. This bonus improves based on Move Quick's current rank.

Blinding Dart (Q): Cooldown: 10/9/8/7/6 seconds; Cost: 60 mana; Range: 700 units Teemo shoots a dart at the target enemy blinding it for 2 seconds and dealing 60/90/120/150/180(+70%AP) magic damage.

Direct executes from Blinding Dart refunds the mana cost and 75% of the cooldown.

Move Quick (W): Cooldown: 20/18/16/14/12 seconds; Cost: 40 mana Passive: Tactical Sweep's movement speed bonus is increased by 15/30/45/60/75%.

Active: Teemo doubles his total movement speed which rapidly decays over 3 seconds.

Toxic Shot (E): Cooldown: 16 seconds; Cost: 40 mana; Range: 1000 units Passive: Teemo deals 10/14/18/22/26(+40%AP) bonus magic damage on-hit, this can critically strike. Teemo's attacks on-hit reduce Toxic Shot's cooldown by 4 seconds. Teemo's attacks against poisoned targets grant him 20/30/40/50/60% bonus attack speed for 2 seconds.

Active: Teemo fires a pass through dart in the target direction applying a poison that deals 40/80/120/160/200(+60%AP) magic damage over 4 seconds. If an enemy was already poisoned by Toxic Shot and struck by Toxic Shot again then the remaining damage is applied immediately.

Noxious Trap (R): Cooldown: 0.25 second; Cost: 60 mana; Range: 500/700/900 units Passive: Teemo stores a mushroom every 30/25/20 seconds, up to a maximum of 3/4/5 at a time.

Active: Teemo tosses a mushroom to the target location which arms and turns invisible after a brief delay remaining in play for 300 seconds while revealing the area around them [400 units from 212.5]. If a mushroom lands on an already existing mushroom then it bounces 3/4/5 Teemos further.

If an enemy steps on a mushroom then it explodes poisoning nearby enemies for 4 seconds, which applies true sight and slows them down by 50/55/60%. If the poisoned target is a minion or monster, or a champion below 40% health, then they are dealt 150/200/250(+50%AP) magic damage over the duration, after 4 seconds of being damaged by the poison the target is dealt 15%(+3% per 100AP) missing health as magic damage (max 300 vs minions and monsters).


(The Move Quick active is actually less movement speed, but it is a quality of life improvement to feel better to use since it has an initial burst which would help Teemo side-step and avoid skill shots with good timing. 100% increased to movement speed that rapidly decays over 3 seconds is less over all movement speed than 52% movement speed for a flat 3 seconds by a significant margin. The passive form I made it to feel more active and like a soldier running from cover to cover, checking to see if the close is clear, and laying down his mines [mushrooms] prepping the battlefield for all out war! The active-passive approach allows the value to be stronger since it requires an action to acquire, invisibility half of the passive unchanged, the vision you think may be pointless being such a close range - but it is to hide out behind a wall to see if anyone is setting up a brush trap and then moving in or running away depending if someone is there or not.)

(I gave Teemo an active with Toxic Shot for 3 reasons: ~ A skill shot feels good to use with a marksman where their damage is primarily from point and clicks (basic attacks) ~ Teemo can choose to apply his E poison on a target or not, this will help him siege enemy towers a lot better ~ The poison damage can be a lot more notice-able being attached to both an active and a skill shot, can gain cool utilities like grant Teemo his attack speed buff this way [made it interact for if a champion steps on a mushroom as well for that Teemo lays in wait sudo-assassin gameplay], and can be AoE without the need of Hurricane [you would still build Hurricane] which helps his waveclear slightly, but I don't want his strength to be waveclear)

(To try to balance out his range vs range and range vs melee match-ups... I reduced his base damages by a lot and linked them to AP ratios or crit chance, also an overall balance change was reduced blind's damage and gave him slightly more blinds at max rank rather than a really long blind duration for a point-and-click CC. Also I nerfed blind's damage by a lot, mostly in base damage, since it doesn't make sense for why Teemo should deal any kind of burst damage for someone that has really high sustain damage from basic attacks and poisons. To improve his range vs range match-up to survive the match-up so he can scale I granted him a sudo-reset for executes with blinding dart and an active+skillshot to his E to help him get farm early game [improvements to try to survive the match-up as best as he can, not to win them, especially against lane bullies - some match-ups he can win like when against Vayne because of his blind, but Vayne has a weak laning phase as well for reasons].)

(The main balance change was remove mushroom chunking ability (only against champions), but preserve their land mine executions because that is a fun little mini-game when against Teemo that does feel pretty fair - it just doesn't feel fair when Teemo has a Liandry's Torment and the mushroom chunks you to half health making it impossible to contest objectives against the Teemo team. Having area and vision control should be Teemo's main purpose to why you pick him, but it should never come down to completely removing the enemy's team ability to contest the objectives however just because he built Liandry's Torment and you stepped on an invisible mushroom.)

(The land mine mushrooms is fine gameplay because it has the cool mini-game of "YEA! I WON THE FIGHT! Now I need to carefully watch my step or I go BOOM and die!", rather than the reverse of "I stepped on an invisible mushroom, at half health from full, now I need to go back and heal handing over Baron for free". Mushrooms seeing the enemy and their slow slowing the enemy team's advance to help you finish off Baron is a cool strategic element as a zone-control marksman and since you properly set-up the area before the big worm you are rewarded with the almighty baron buff!)


12 Comments

It Hertz When IP1 votes

First problem: why should E's bonus damage critically strike? Given that Teemo doesn't build crit beside Hurricane (which is for the multi-target passive, not the crit) this makes no sense.

Next: Why attach MS to his passive? This basically means that if Teemo dives in a bush while being chased, he's never going to get caught. The only champion I can think of with their mobility tied to an always-up passive instead of an ability with clear windows of downtime is Kalista, and we all know how well HER passive works.

Back to E: Why are you worried about his waveclear at all? At max CDR, Teemo can afford to use his shrooms for waveclear, and last hitting with his built in on-hit damage is somewhat easier at early levels than many other mages/marksmen.

Additionally, I honestly don't understand why you think Teemo's mushrooms shouldn't do any damage outside of executes. From a thematic standpoint, it makes no sense why a poison only hurts if you're already injured; from a gameplay standpoint, one of the main uses for his traps is to pose an actual threat to people entering his area. If I know I can waltz through Teemo's jungle without taking any hits just because my health isn't low, why even care? If his mushrooms are "chunking for half health" it's because you're facing Teemo as a squishy and for God-knows-what reason aren't building any MR and have forgotten entirely what item 3364 is. Also requires that Teemo build full AP, which to the best of my knowledge is a build that's fallen by the wayside in favor of on-hit Teemo.

Stacona1 votes

I made the E damage crit to nerf the base damage for AD Teemo; AP Teemo I have more AP ratio to keep that scaling; or you can go a hybrid as a crit and AP marksman rather than crit and AD like how everyone else builds. All-in-all it is meant to nerf his early game, but still keep his scaling intact, and now can even scale with Infinity edge's amp crit damage if you so choose (or just buy rageblade, your choice). This base damage nerf, alongside the base damage gutting on blinding dart, to make him less oppressive in the early game in some of those ranged vs melee match-ups; we can then help him out with his ranged vs ranged match-ups.


The passive movement speed is the same mechanic as his move quick's passive movement speed, but since it requires an action it can be a lot stronger to help him roam the map. Do note that this removes his always active passive movement speed in exchange for better map roaming. Teemo's invisibility half of the passive is exactly the same as it is now, the exit invisibility movement speed is removed if he takes champion and tower damage so it is not a free escape mechanic for running through brushes since it can EASILY be removed, also he cannot stealth while taking champion and tower damage remember.

Finally, the instant stealth to chain movement speed bursts together is only on standing still and does not work for running through a brush. But you definitely forgot to read the most important balance part where the movement speed is removed from champion and tower damage like how Move Quick's passive works now.


I'm not trying to give him more waveclear, still want to keep in shrooms be able to help with waveclear though since the poor gameplay mechanic is just champions being chunked by mushrooms and them having waveclear is not an issue.

As far as last hitting goes, I mean last hitting outside of his AA range to help him survive lane bully match-ups, his AA last hitting is really good and that isn't the problem. Ways to get farm so he can scale up is the improvement, because if a late game marksman can never get to the late game they are just useless the entire game (granted Teemo does have a bunch of team utility with his blind and mushrooms so that isn't a huge problem for him, but the general premise still stands).

I don't want Teemo to have extreme amounts of waveclear so I toned back mushroom flat damage to compensate, some wave clear is fine, but it shouldn't be anywhere near Xayah or Sivir levels for Teemo.


If the mushrooms don't pose a threat when you step on them then should they have an even stronger slow? I don't think it is fair gameplay (or fun to go against I assume) by being massively chunked out by mushrooms that are invisible, but their invisible nature is what adds to his tactical warfare theme of controlling areas, supplying vision for calculated moves, and acting as land mines to kill the target.

Sweeper isn't a good form of counter play, that is a band aid fix that doesn't fix the underlying gameplay, it should feel fair just playing against the champion innately. I added a new interaction where Teemo can get his attack speed steroid for attacking poisoned targets, any poison, includes landing E or enemies stepping on a mushroom with Teemo invisible nearby. If the mushrooms are not threatening enough then the slow can be increased further until they get back their threat levels again. If you are low on health then they are always threatening.

Also forgot to mention this concept has the mushrooms giving almost double their current vision radius to help them act as better mini-wards.


Erockandroll1 votes

Can't say I entirely agree with your direction, Simply put it, I prefer him as a caster. And the fact that he's going to be fairly ability dependent will hamper any possible position in the duo lane. (Which get's less XP)

Also, that Q execute, is that on Champ, or unit kill? Because putting that on a unit kill will give him oppressive levels of laning power. (That refund is too much)

I do like the Idea of making his E more than just a passive. it really seem like he's missing a lot of potential in his kit.

Lastly, despite your claim, I imagine making him not oppressive in the ranged vs, melee matchup, is going to be much harder than that. (It's possible they can't do it without giving him a sub ADC range. )

I think the biggest problem with Teemo is that he's simply designed to be a Guerrilla tactics champion. But that play style just doesn't serve him in lane. Those tactics would work best for a Jungler or roaming support. Which is why Teemo has difficulty on SR, but try playing him on Ascension, and he basically perma banned.

Stacona1 votes

Teemo isn't a caster, his damage is from basic attacks, this grants him more to do with E gaining an active and Teemo is not level dependent, he is gold dependent.

Why would you want to save your BLIND for last hitting champions? It is so that you can get last hits in slightly outside your AA range to help you survive the lane against lane bullies.


Ranged is ranged, there are better champions than Teemo that are better in the top lane, but if the changes makes Teemo more appealing and accurate about wanting to farm up for late game and is weaker early game then he is weaker in the ranged vs melee match up early game and wants to be paired with a support to scale up and become a monster as an utility hyper marksman.

Teemo has ZERO guerilla warfare in his kit, Teemo is an extremely tactical champion and one that calculates his plays by throwing down his mushrooms in an area for his safety with the vision and slow that they grant. The slow also allows for Teemo and/or his team to get picks off of.

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