PLEASE for the love of god fix match making.

lolipopevelynn·Apr 16, 2017·57 votes·2,544 views

All i fucking want is to be matched WITH AND AGAINST EQUALLY TIERED PLAYERS!. thats it. its it so hard to match bronze x with bronze x, silver x with silver x, gold x with gold x, etc????? is that REALLY such a hard thing to do? the skill differences and experience is different among tiers, even if its just 1 tier lower... if i am silver i should be matched with other silver players. not unranked players, not bronze players, not gold players, SILVER players because I AM SILVER. the same thing goes for bronze players, gold players, plat players, diamond players.

its not fair nor is it fun to isolate the weakest link in the game and just dumpster party on them. "hey, this guy is unranked/lower tiered than us, so he is either a smurf or just new at the game, lets camp his lane and find out! if he is new he will feed the living hell out of us" that should not be a thing at all.

please fix this for next season...

51 Comments

BigNasty3001Apr 16, 20176 votes

Silver 5 and just laned against a diamond 4 twitch. i feel your pain. The people here are mostly Riot apologists though, so they will just be passive aggressive in most of the comments.

Riot only gets by being such a shit company because they sell things mostly to children, who have no recourse.

AnodizedApr 17, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Silver 5 and just laned against a diamond 4 twitch. i feel your pain. The people here are mostly Riot apologists though, so they will just be passive aggressive in most of the comments.

Riot only gets by being such a shit company because they sell things mostly to children, who have no recourse.

lol...you played a d4 in normals not ranked. Big difference...

BigNasty3001Apr 17, 20172 votes

So....normals doesn't try to match you with people of the same skill level? That would be a problem, wouldn't it?

MogarlApr 17, 20171 votes

Ranked and normals mmr is tracked separately. Whether they should be or not is a separate topic from this thread and has lots of mixed opinions. Personally I don't mind getting matched up against the occasional Plat or diamond player in normals. I might get a little annoyed after three games in a row of being put up against players that are substantially better than me but that is very rare.

zarxus1234Apr 17, 20173 votes

{quoted}

lol...you played a d4 in normals not ranked. Big difference...

omg......suck riot off harder... holy crap

ElikainApr 17, 20172 votes

Normals and Ranked queues have completely different ELOs. Being Silver or Diamond in ranked queue has no actual weight on normal matchmaking.

BigNasty3001Apr 17, 20173 votes

So which is real? Or are they both irrelevant? What is the point in having a ranking system if it doesn't affect who you play with?

Does someone just stop being diamond because they q in norms? Am I as good as a diamond player because I q in norms (no I'm not)?

GayFluffyUnicornApr 17, 20171 votes

Why do you even care about soloQ ranking in a normals? Seriously this is no issue at all. Most diamonds won't play their mains anyways or if they don't tryhard and test shit or play with friends and troll around anyways. I'm gold 5 in flex and when i play it i play against soloQ bronzes or diamonds as well. It is what it is.

BigNasty3001Apr 18, 20171 votes

Because it isn't fun to play against people who are way better than you. Make all of the excuses you want, but having a silver player lane against a diamond is inexcusable, no matter what flimsy pretense you would like to say is the reason.

Why do you dismiss it as if it isn't a problem? You're an immature riot apologist, who probably thinks they always make the right decision.

Use commas so that I can understand what you are typing. Also, the saying 'it is what it is' is literally the dumbest thing you can ever type. Just don't type anything at all next time, it will be more effective.

ElikainApr 17, 20171 votes

Normal queue has its own ELO, Ranked ELO is separate from Normal ELO. Ranked ELO is used by the matchmaker for Ranked matches while Normal ELO is used for Normal matches. I don't know why it's like this but my guess is that because of situations where the community isn't equally split between Normal and Ranked queues. For most of the players, Riot has reported that Ranked is the preferred method of enjoying the game.

If there were no separate ELOs, my guess is that if Ranked players started playing Normal games for relaxing a bit, they would start having abysmal queue times due to matchmaker not knowing who to match them with. Or that would've been the case for the minority of players who prefer Normal games.

option paralysisApr 16, 20176 votes

It's like that everywhere man. I was d4 in promos and I played against master/challengers. How does that make sense ? playing against a challenger to get d3 ? LOL or other time I was in promos for d2, 4v4 players it was balanced and then I got a d5 top laner that got autofilled vs. a d1 one trick top main. Don't have to be a genius to figure out who lost.

HiroeApr 17, 20172 votes

Who was the one trick top main playing? Just curious

option paralysisApr 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Who was the one trick top main playing? Just curious

I had a d5 riven xd that went against d1 tahm kench and she gave him like 6-7 kills and he was unstoppable and carried the game. He built tank with trinity force and you couldn't touch him. I mean you can't even blame her, maybe for picking riven, but otherwise, the matchmaking put a d5 against a d1. + autofill = game over in champ select.

ˉˉˉˉˉˉApr 17, 20176 votes

I think the current ranking system is bullshit.

Either fucking match us by RANK, so we compete Bronze 5 vs. Bronze 5, Plat 4 vs. Plat 4...

Just completely REMOVE the ranking system, and make our MMR visible to us, and match us by MMR, and cut out all that Bronze, Diamond, etc bullshit, if our rankings don't mean shit for matchmaking anyway.

Undying NoxianApr 17, 20174 votes

^ This, should just be MMR instead of pretty border color bullshit.

ThrëatApr 17, 20175 votes

Honestly they need to decide if they want the badge system or the MMR system because the combination of the two is dumb. For example, being Silver 3 with Gold 3 MMR is dumb because you will have to continuously beat people a full tier higher than you just to get to Gold 5, a tier under you. If they ditched the MMR system then a Silver 3 player would need to beat other Silver 3s to hit Silver 2,, then beat Silver 2s to reach Silver 1, etc, etc. If they ditched the rank structure and just used MMR then people wouldn't be pissed any more about rank differences in games because it will be easier to see if a team mate is close to your skill or not.

But in the case of having people play in different ranks without the MMR of that rank with the current system, yes I agree it is stupid. One of my losses this week was from having a Bronze ADC in a DIAMOND GAME. Yes it was Flexed, but I'm D4 in Flex, ,there is really no reason for me to have a Bronze Solo Q / Low Silver Flex Q ADC in my game. If he was Bronze solo Q and like at least high plat flex then it would make sense because maybe he is a smurf or just didn't grind his solo Q yet, but the fact that he was legit a Bronze/Silver player and placed in a DIAMOND game made no sense. He did no damage at all and didn't know how to team fight. The sad part was,, he kept apologizing because he knew he was making the game impossible to win - but it wasn't even his fault - he didn't choose to be put in a diamond game.

SexyBabyJesusZApr 16, 20174 votes

"here at riot our policy is too know exactly whats wrong, and apoligize for the errors we make, and do anything to fix the problems we made."

TimX24968BApr 17, 20172 votes

"and we talk about it for a couple months, and then fix it, while we will probably have to fix it again later because our first fix made things worse."

ElikainApr 17, 20174 votes

There's a one critical flaw in your way of thinking. Being in a certain Tier (Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc...) does not represent specific ELO you're in. You're basically treating Tiers/Divisions as an accurate representation of an individual's ELO, which is incorrect.

WiegrafOfValorApr 17, 20175 votes

I don't see any flaw, look at this way. If you are somehow a master tier player that is currently gold tier, if you only face gold players you'll start to climb really quick, and will start to even out once you get near master tier.

With this you leave gold, diamond and Plat faster and leave those rankings with players from that current skill level.

lolipopevelynnApr 17, 20171 votes

[deleted]

WiegrafOfValorApr 17, 20173 votes

You are the one not understanding.

I'm saying that if you have MMR from master tier, but your currently rank is gold. It's better for everyone if you just face gold players, because if your skill is really master tier as your MMR says you'll climb faster and leave gold faster, thus remaining in gold those that have gold skill level of play.

And if you don't have a skill level of master (AKA your mmr is inflated or simply wrong) you'll lose several gold tier games, thus making you keep playing with ppl at your skill level.

The way it is now, if you're gold and have master tier MMR, you'll be placed with masters that will probably tilt when see a gold player on their team. Worst is, if you're not a player with master tier skill (AKA your mmr is inflated or wrong) you'll ruin the game of the other 4 players by feeding your lane hard.

I think OP is right and we should be matched by our currently ranking, not hidden MMR. MMR can be inflated, can simply be wrong since we don't know how exactly is calculated.

GayFluffyUnicornApr 17, 20171 votes

Fun thing is how placement matches worked. Afaik especially early on you get pretty much mixed with anyone. Funnilly enough this season i got mixed with gold and plats vs entirely diamond teams... Resulting in me losing 8 out of 10 matches. And if we are at changing ranked we could also finally remove the MMR penalty in diamond OR implement it to plat already. It is such a fuckin joke that even after an 18 games winning streak with positive winrate and earnings of 12 lp per game my mmr in dia 4 is still plat 1 and players with 47% winrate in plat and several hundred games have dia 4 MMR to mix me with them????? The difference between single divisions are huge the higher up you go. Just like between low lp master and high lp master for example. Then i'm at dia 4 30lp and suddenly get mixed with dia 4/3 which is correct and okay, you have "high" level gameplay, lose two games in a row and you are back at plat 1 clownfiestas....for whatever reason and start losing 21 points because you are mixed with plat 1s as dia 4 and lose...

RendathApr 17, 20171 votes

An even bigger flaw is that the tier applies to the account. I might be a silver 1 Vel'Koz, but when I pick Ekko I'm lucky if I'm bronze 2. But this problem is completely unsolvable so long as you get matchmade first, and pick champ later.

lolipopevelynnApr 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

There's a one critical flaw in your way of thinking. Being in a certain Tier (Bronze, Silver, Gold, etc...) does not represent specific ELO you're in. You're basically treating Tiers/Divisions as an accurate representation of an individual's ELO, which is incorrect.

thats another of the many problems the MMing has tho. games like starcraft has no problem matching a tiered emblem (bronze, s ilver, gold, diamond, etc) to a elo rating because its much easier to match a individual player using the ELO system. because of that its just much easier to climb out of your tiered skill level with effort. when it comes to team games like league that becomes more of a problem to match it. you have people of varying ELO ratings, lets say 1k, 1.1k, 1.7k, etc in one game together. that 1k rating player is probally a unranked player who just started ranked for the first time and he is going to get shat on by the 1.6k MasterYi player who has played for multiple seasones and has reached as high as gold for his top rating. this feeds on the 1k rating player and goes 5/0 in the first 5 mins of the game starting. yi is only going to snowball harder, you cant stop that... this is frustrating when you are trying to climb and improve YOURSELF. doesnt matter if you have perfect farm and 0 deaths, you are not going to stop that yi from snowballing when he got 5 kills before you even finish your first jg clear...

Im not making this up either because ive done this myself. you can look at my eve games and KDA. whenever i play eve i simply prey on these lower skilled players than myself, get 20-30 kills with item 3041 and just proceed to dominate the game every time unless the enemy team manages to feed off my lower skilled teammates harder than i can feed off theirs.

this is how low elo works, why do you think everyone recommends picking a hard carry like riven, yi, or trynd in low elo? bottom line is that its an AWFUL system when you have to prey on inexperienced players to climb out of a low tier instead of actually strategizing with your team for good comps. its a real problem

currently, this is what team comps look like in low elo. Riven MasterYi Yasuo Draven vs Camille Khazix Ahri Lucian Velkoz "lets see who can get fed the hardest guys!"

like you have no idea how stupid this is if you havent played in this tier for very long. sorry i went on a tangent there, but it really needs to be fixed.

ElikainApr 17, 20171 votes

LP (League Points or Ladder Points) are nothing more than a mask that's put over actual ELO points that our ladder is based off of. LP does still correlate to ELO in a way but for the math behind it (LP gains and losses are based off your ELO), not in any kind of visible way for us. LP is basically a convenient way for us to gauge our progress and get easier progression goals because they are divided in 100 point increments. Those correspond to one tier (5, 4, 3...) or Division (Bronze, Silver, Gold...).

Under the old ELO system, we still had Bronze, Silver, Gold... divisions and they corresponded to certain ELO but since this ELO is now hidden for us, i don't know if these cutoff points are still in the same place.

The more games you play, the more accurate your estimated ELO is. It is entirely possible to be placed in Bronze and have the ELO of a Silver player. So the matchmaking does use ELO to find you teammates and opponents and this is why people freak out for no reason. And the matchmaker still has restrictions put in, to make sure it does not go out of its way to start matching Diamonds with Bronze players. That much of a skill gap isn't possible unless the player in question intentionally loses a lot of games to be considered as a low ELO player.

I don't think any of the champions you mentioned (Yi, Riven and more) have any relevance to this argument as these picks are known to stomp low ELO games if the player is consistent enough with them. Simply because how to counter these champions requires a bit of game knowledge and laning skill those players don't have. So if they gain and advantage, it's hard to lose it if you don't take steps to properly stop the gold income into their pockets.

CanastusApr 16, 20173 votes

This game is just one curbstomp after another, I've rarely ever seen balanced teams.

Almost every single game ends with a 10k gold difference AT LEAST, it's that brutal. And Riot still have the audacity to pretend that everything is fine.

TimX24968BApr 17, 20171 votes

usually thats cause things end super early game, or it drags onto super late game. Plus the majority of the games in general are in lower elo, where curbstomps are much more likely than they are in higher elo.

AquariusGineApr 16, 20172 votes

I know we need to be matched with more difficult players to improve,

but damn, sometimes the matchmaking is so skewed it's disgusting.

There is no way a team with 3 silvers can beat a team with 3 plats. It's a death sentence.

lolipopevelynnApr 16, 20172 votes

{quoted}

I know we need to be matched with more difficult players to improve,

but damn, sometimes the matchmaking is so skewed it's disgusting.

There is no way a team with 3 silvers can beat a team with 3 plats. It's a death sentence.

the problem is they are using the "elo" system. that system was SPECIFICALLY designed for 1v1 chess matches or 1v1 matches in general. when you try to add it to team oriented games it gets less effective the more players you add in because the system matches you based on your INDIVIDUAL skill rather than your skill as a team. so yyou are going to get players of varying skill levels stomping or getting stomped in games. its a horribly outdated system. great for games like starcraft where you are constantly tested as a individual in a 1v1 competitive game, HORRIBLE in a 5v5 game. btw beleive it or not, there is a SIGNIFICANT gap between a bronze 3 player and a silver 3 player and a gold 3 player regardless of how much elitist tell you otherwise. when you have all 3 of those tiers in 1 game, prepare for IMMINENT disaster.

xelakerApr 16, 20172 votes

i feel like every time I finally do go up a rank my next few matches are against higher ranks and i end up back where i started...

TimX24968BApr 17, 20171 votes

thats called "testing you to see if you are ready for that rank"

xelakerApr 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

thats called "testing you to see if you are ready for that rank"

so to get into silver 2 I have to play against gold ranked people? I totally get if your promo was against the next tier or whatever but just keep matches in their own rank 1+ or 1-

TimX24968BApr 19, 20171 votes

they want to see your carry potential

lolipopevelynnApr 19, 20171 votes

{quoted}

thats called "testing you to see if you are ready for that rank"

even if it was "testing your MMR" riot should be smart enough to do what blizzard does and you gain double the normal for winning vs higher tiers and lose half for losing aginst them.

TimX24968BApr 19, 20171 votes

they want to see your carry potential

BlåbæretApr 17, 20172 votes

I'm constantly getting matched with uranked in games going 0/5 in lane by the 10 minute mark. Then I stomp one game 20 minute win, then the next one I get paried with more unranked and the game ends 0/40 or something like that. It is IMPOSSIBLE to climb in my elo right now. I get one win, I stomp, then I get paired with the lowest of the lowest and lose hard. There is no way on earth you can carry 4 hard-feeding trash players, no freaking way.

My friend literally said the same thing. Matchmaking is completely and utterly broken.

o Eon OApr 16, 20171 votes

Stay out of flex que, 1 in 2-3 games has a bronze player laning against a high silver to mid gold player. Just made a thread this morning bitching about that shit.

idontgiveabotherApr 16, 20171 votes

I had a game back when I was in gold 3 with a plat 5 on the other team and a silver 4 on our team. Silver 4 was in his first season and lost the game for us. Apparently having a win streak or 2 is equivalent to 9 tiers above? I also had this same effect when I was climbing, I would have a nice 7 or 8 game winstreak or something then play with people in plat 1/2. That was also when I was in gold 2 I believe.

JhamSleazApr 17, 20171 votes

I'm in bronze and I constantly play with Plat players. Other day played with a Diamond player that got a penta (likely because there were bronze players on enemy team)

YoungSirJ0eyApr 17, 20171 votes

In theory, under this system, you are matched with equally skilled players, but you gain more LP than you lose, so you should still climb, while improving more due to facing players who aren't comparatively retarded. In practice, however, promos give me a tumor the size of my mothers dick.

GayFluffyUnicornApr 17, 20171 votes

Promos need to be removed entirely. Especially in diamond between tiers since you drop anyways at 0lp and one loss unless you have more than 60% winrate. All it does make the climb artificial harder and more time investing. Riots stance is that promos "protect" you from dropping immediately which they don't.

SkorchApr 17, 20171 votes

Before i talk i think the matchmaking DOES need tuning, but in fact does NOT need to be rank specific.

There IS actually a reason for it. Its so that the games you played are equal.

It might suck, however MMR is A LOT more important than Rank. Which tells you very little.

I mean its a case of "this damn gold player when im only silver stomped us" to become "this guy who has a higher MMR than us and is obviously better than us stomped us."

If you have a much higher MMR than your division it might suck that you fight people a higher rank than you. However it also prevents 1 guy who has a high MMR being stuck in a game where he either solo carries, or is with nothing but monkies and tilts.

The best way to rank is to not get intimidated because you are "most-likely" fighting them for a reason. If you get intimidated and tilt its a lost lane.

La Belle SauvageApr 17, 20171 votes

I have similar frustration as well. During my first promo into B3, I was paired with an ADC who had a total of 5 ranked games 2 of which were ADC. Compared to my 175 ranked games as a support. He was horrible in lane as expected I'm sure it was fustrating for him as well. Game 2? I get paired with an unranked ADC, In promos?!

I'm not exactly sure how the system works but That should not happen. In promo matches I expect to be paired with an ADC with similar match count at the least! I'll take any ADC winning at 45% and has a similar ranked game count (as ADC) over an ADC with no ranked games regardless of their ELO.

Hell, I'll take any non ADC who has a similar match count to my own. Unranked players and players with low match count should never be paired to people with a much higher match count and in a promo game.

So I lost two in a row. Thankfully the second round of promos went well and I got into B3.

La Belle SauvageApr 17, 20171 votes

I also waned to point out that I cannot as a support make up the skill gap of someone with less than 5 ranked games!

DarkHeadgearApr 17, 20171 votes

inb4: MMR matters more than rank, flex queue is often home to players already of very high skill level, and you may not completely understand where your skill level is anyways.

Gambino2050Apr 17, 20171 votes

{quoted}

All i fucking want is to be matched WITH AND AGAINST EQUALLY TIERED PLAYERS!. thats it. its it so hard to match bronze x with bronze x, silver x with silver x, gold x with gold x, etc????? is that REALLY such a hard thing to do? the skill differences and experience is different among tiers, even if its just 1 tier lower... if i am silver i should be matched with other silver players. not unranked players, not bronze players, not gold players, SILVER players because I AM SILVER. the same thing goes for bronze players, gold players, plat players, diamond players.

its not fair nor is it fun to isolate the weakest link in the game and just dumpster party on them. "hey, this guy is unranked/lower tiered than us, so he is either a smurf or just new at the game, lets camp his lane and find out! if he is new he will feed the living hell out of us" that should not be a thing at all.

please fix this for next season...

This, can't count how many fucking times this season I have had first time ever playing ranked, first ranked game teammates who get literally fucking stomped, game ending at or before 20min.... it's ok though right? Players getting accounts to 30 in a 1/4th the time it took prior with minimal games played on the account total should start in mid silver to low gold mmr/games, cuz that makes so much sense...

Email riot about a game with skewed as fuck teammates and they will say teams were completely fair and even, according to their "hidden mmr".... Fair and even my fucking ass.. start new accounts with a lower MMR in ranked?? Nah eventually after fucking over enough players and games they will reach their natural rank, not tilting at all

muted team chatApr 17, 20171 votes

I just hit plat 3 last night and my MMR is somewhere in low diamond. When I hit D5 I'm going to just start smurfing because I'll never hit masters and this problem sounds awful.

TimX24968BApr 17, 20171 votes

I've been the only one in my lobby with a silver border for a lot of matches recently... but then again, I don't mind some easy games, its just hard to carry as a top laner.

FegoneApr 17, 20171 votes

For the longest time I had a split opinion about this:

On the one hand you're right. If I am in Silver, as I am, I want to play against Silver. If I can beat them, I move up towards gold, and I keep moving up, until I can't beat my opponents any more. Sounds logic. However, the big flaw with this approach is that smurfs will ruin a lot of other people's games that way. A D1 smurf starting in B5 will play against a LOT of Bronze and silver and gold etc people, which he logically will all stomp so hard that they want to ff@10.

This is why when this person wins 10 games in a row, he's still not out of bronze, hell, he's still Bronze 4. (If he started at B5). But his MMR is so high that he will play against people of higher tiers, to minimize the games he will 'ruin'...

Now this approach makes sense from that standpoint, I assume you will agree. But as someone who is directly affected by it, I agree with you that this is frustrating. Especially if you're just 1 Tier below where you actually belong and try to climb, and constantly have to defend yourself against Golds while in Silver. It is extremely painful.

What's the solution? Well, Riot doesn't look at individuals, so your approach will likely not be implemented, ever. They look at it as: 1 person is unhappy with his games because he gets stomped some times, as opposed to 150 people being unhappy because they get stomped by 1 person, until that person is in his desired league. And there are multiple versions of that person (many smurfs).

So most likely, if at all, there could be 2 solutions:

a pure MMR based system, and no arbitrary bronze / silver / gold etc divisions: take app players and order them by their MMR. Then apply divisions on % of player base: top 0.5% is Challenger, 1% is master, 2% is Diamond, 5% is Platinum, 15% is Gold, 45% is Silver, rest is Bronze (or whatever they decide on the actual % numbers) you get the point. This would make the most sense and would be the most fair. AND they can keep their "tiers" and give out rewards based on reaching a certain tier. Plus, no Promo games needed. You reach a certain %, you move up / down automatically.

Disadvantage: you will move within your tier without even playing, because other people move. So you might make it to Gold, not play for a bit, log back in after a month and suddenly be Silver, because a lot of other people moved up and got a higher MMR than you.

a mix: keep the current system as it is, but do not apply it to Promo games. Advantage is that in order to move up a division, you only have to beat people from the division you want to leave. No beating Gold/Plat people just to get out of Silver. At the same time , for the majority of your games, smurfs aren't runing 100s of other peoples games because they are still matched with MMR. And honestly, losing a few games on the way to promos is okay, nobody expects to win 100% of the games. And knowing you aren't going to play against higher MMR in promos makes this an acceptable term in my opinion.