Remove Highlander's immunity to AS slows

Photos of Ghosts··99 votes·4,288 views

Why would you prevent us from having such a major counterplay aspect? If Yi then ends up too weak lategame, just buff his W at later ranks so that smart use of it is encouraged. EDIT: or, as someone said, instead of just removing the immunity give him an AS slow reduction, so that they still don't have full effectiveness on him but they're still kind of a reasonable counter.

104 Comments

Only Play Darius9 votes

No, this is what defines him. He is the only DPS champion in the game who has a guaranteed high baseline damage late game. ADC's have range, Yasuo Jax have utility, Tryndamere has invincibility, Yi just has reliable damage against all targets at the expense of anything else.

SLICE AMERICANS8 votes

Highlander's entire point is to be immune to soft CC. Stun his ass!

Photos of Ghosts7 votes

Hard to do when he moves as fast, but agreed. The problem is that he does 7 times more damage to tanks than your average duelist due to immunity to AS slows (that still stack like MS slows used to) and he doesn't even have any inbuilt %health damage.

HayRoss6 votes

It's not hard, just use some point and click CC like Taric's!

Oh wait...

(Jokes aside, great rework)

ComeOnAndSlamJam7 votes

You have counterplay to highlander. Avoid Yi for the 10 seconds highlander is going, or just CC him and blow him up.

If your team can't be bothered to focus the melee glass cannon, they deserve to lose.

Photos of Ghosts26 votes

Point and click CC is hard to find and he has his Q.

Wild Wes18 votes

Invulnerability, damage reduction + healing and massive movement speed make it kind of hard to "CC" him.

ComeOnAndSlamJam7 votes

He doesn't have invulnerability and meditate requires him to stand still and can be stopped by silences, stuns and displacement.

Wild Wes19 votes

Yes, because his Q doesn't make him invulnerable. Totally. Your acting as if it's Master Yi vs 5. Master Yi has teammates; he's not alone. I play Master Yi a lot, he's one of my favourite Champions. But I do agree he needs nerfs, not that I'd like him to get nerfs :P.

SLICE AMERICANS2 votes

The thing about yi's Q, its way easy to tell when he's going to do it. Why? Because you see him running straight at you. As long as you know the range you can hit him with a stun before he uses it.

Kairya4 votes

The problem isn't knowing when he will Q you. You usually realize that (unless you have been fighting him in close combat already), but there is litte you can do about that Q. You could CC him, but if you are in range, that usually means he is too, or can often still dodge longer ranged skillshots Because even if he is running in a straight line, he could just... not.

For me the biggest problem has always been predicting where he will be after his Q. Not sure whether that just a personal problem though... Best thing against Yi right now are squirrels imo.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

Agreed. Most CC abilities (that would be worth casting on Yi) are well within Alpha's range. Dazzle (both current and new), Annie Q/W/R, Malz R, Rune Prison, etc. all fall into Alpha Strike's range. Yes, you can theoretically use these abilities when he pops out, but the time it takes for you to move your cursor back over to him (who appears more randomly than Zed after his Q) he has done probably half your health, and in the case of Ryze your root isn't going to save you.

Wenderwall1 votes

It'll be helpful for everyone when you summery how to use ALL 4 abilities as a combo. Instead of saying how they are just 1 spell.

If his soft CC immunity is removed then he is gutted. Other champs have soft/hard cc with similar abilities. Most champs either have a CC or immunity to CC as an ability.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

No, most champs have either CC or mobility. Yi has mobility.

Wenderwall1 votes

His mobility comes from being immune to soft CC while being squishy enough to die on hard CC.

Tarrtarr1 votes

His mobility comes from both his ult and his q. While if timed well he can dodge the cc with some consistency using his q. There aren't that many hard cc abilities that don't have a projectile, delay, or channel.

Wenderwall2 votes

There are decent amount of CCs which can hit Yi. And it's doesn't matter if they are projectile or not. E.g. Annie's ability is point and click, dodging it is tough or Fizz W or Malzahar R or Nasus W they can't be dodged. **Not to forget Yi's Q is bugged. **

If R is changed and he is no more immune to CC then Q is not good enough. Will I use Q to dodge a soft CC? Hell no, i'll save it for hard CC or dodge tower agro or get away.

kile1472 votes

Nasus W is literally useless when he ults, that's kind of the point of the thread. The OP is asking for his AS immunity to go away so that the items (item 3110, item 3143), champions ( Malphite ), and spells (summoner 3 ) designed to specifically counter champions like him actually work. He can retain his immunity to movement slows so that running isn't an option, but AS slows are the answer to champs like him so just ignoring them is kind of BS.

Cabalist1 votes

But...BUT, exhaust And Nasus's W still does remove his Attack speed/DPS, which is Yi's other core.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Highlander makes Master Yi immune to attack speed slows.

That was stated in the OP.

Cabalist1 votes

Oh...I never read that...silly me. Thanks!

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

It's not explicited, gotta go to the wiki to see it.

Wenderwall1 votes

Everyone ADC / Assassin has some (major) scaling AD or scaling AS ability. YI got just his ult ( with a huge ass CD unlike others).

kile1471 votes

I'm fine with the burst of AS that Yi's ult gives him and how much synergy he has with that AS. My problem is that there is nothing you can do to reduce his damage once he ults.

Think about it this way, if you are a champ without hard cc there is literally nothing you can do to stop him, because there is no way to counterbuild his damage as he deals mixed physical, magical, and true damage that scales mostly with AS that cannot be reduced. If there was an item that could give someone hard cc (think the puppeteer's gauntlet item from Black Market Brawlers) I would see this as less of an issue.

Wenderwall1 votes

So, Yi has to time his ult properly. How to get away.

  1. Use minions wall, yi is not fizz so he has to navigate thru that wall.
  2. Use dashes, blinks/flash to get over wall. Yi can't Q what he can't see or follow thru fog of war.
  3. Use bushes to juke ( 1-2 seconds is still good). No vision, no Q, and time for him to walk to bush.
  4. If you have lifesteal + more AD than him. Use it. ( Teemo, kog and jinx can kill a Yi becuz of the 2.5 AS + crit AD)
  5. Use item 3157 if you can't escape. If annoys me to see a maze use it and I'm running out of ult time.

If yi is fed, it's a different story. Yi's True damage scales with Bonus AD not AS. NEVER Engage a Yi with RED BUFF + RED SMITE.

Red Smite gives true damage for all AA for 3 seconds. Yi use that RED smite with MAX AS, he doesn't need to be depended on his E.

kile1471 votes

I realize the damage from his E scales with AD, but it applies on hit making it scale with AS as well, and red buff and smite both also apply true damage.

Zhonyas is always conditional. Sometimes that's great for avoiding Yi, sometimes you are delivering yourself on a silver platter.

A lot of what you are suggesting is assuming you are either more mobile than one of the fastest characters in the game who has a point and click gapcloser, or can out damage one of the most high damage hyper carries in the game. Both are possible but difficult and it seems unreasonable to assume you can.

I get that he's not completely unstoppable, but he has so many more options for dealing with you than you do for dealing with him. I just think that if you have multiple people on your team who want to shut him down they should have more options to do so.

Wenderwall1 votes

You are right. But as Yi main i have terrible time dealing with Teemo just hides and nothing can find except for pink ward (late game no one carries that). And most of the times, he goes Max 2.5 AS and ruin everything. Vayne while ulted makes her tumble invisible. She tumbles enough distance for all melee to just stay and die. Fizz - item 3070 Fiddlesticks - I'll leave him to my team mates.

to name a few

EndlessSorcerer7 votes

His Q makes him untargetable.

Untargetable != Invulnerable.

So yeah, his Q doesn't make him invulnerable.

Wild Wes4 votes

Okay so tell me an ability that will hit him while he's in alpha. Go ahead.

EndlessSorcerer7 votes

Abilities will not hit him in Alpha Strike since he is untargetable. That is what untargetable means.

However, abilities which have been previously applied will still damage him because he is not invulnerable. Examples include Ignite, Malzahar's Malefic Visions, Swain's Torment, Brand's passive, etc.

GrReaper961 votes

Yeah but unlike untargetable he also breaks links from champions like Leblanc Fiddlesticks Karma while real untargetable champions like Elise Vladimir do not.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

And?

That's because Alpha Strike moves him during the duration and he can move out of the ability's tether. If he remains within the tether, it will still hit him.

That does not in any way make him invulnerable. He is still only untargetable.

Shot Càller2 votes

{quoted}

Yes, because his Q doesn't make him invulnerable. Totally. Your acting as if it's Master Yi vs 5. Master Yi has teammates; he's not alone. I play Master Yi a lot, he's one of my favourite Champions. But I do agree he needs nerfs, not that I'd like him to get nerfs :P.

My god you're dumb. Yi's Q makes him untargetable not invulnerable, learn the difference. In the future, please refrain from discussing in debates you're clueless in to avoid this embarrassment

Wild Wes1 votes

Okay so tell me an ability that can hit him while he's in Alpha. I bet you more than 75% of abilities won't hit him if he times his Alpha Strike correctly. It's like Fizz's E. You want to hit him with a Karthus ultimate? You want to hit him with a Malphite ultimate? If this Yi is good, he can dodge it all. I mean of course there's like the Zed ultimate and stuff like that, but hardly any abilities are delayed damage. Don't need to be rude.

Shot Càller3 votes

Holy shit. You're an idiot. Let me give you an example so it goes through that thick skull of yours. If you ignite a Yi and he uses Alpha Strike he will still get damaged by the ignite meaning he is NOT invulnerable, he is untargetable.

Wild Wes1 votes

Man you're rude. I told you 75%. I'm pretty sure Twitch's poison, Teemo's, Fizz's DoT and stuff like that will work on him. But if you think of most abilities: all of Ahri, Akali, Alistar, Amumu. I could keep continuing, but that would just be too much. Most, MOST abilities can't hit him while he's in alpha. So even though he's not invulnerable in alpha, he's pretty damn close.

Shot Càller3 votes

What's your point? You kept saying he was invulnerable up until now, learn the god damn difference between untargetable and invulnerable 'cos honestly there's a huge difference.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

It's not a matter of "pretty sure", that's how it works, that's it. Untargetable = you can't click on the person, AoEs don't find them, projectiles don't connect. Debuffs are still applied. There's no guessing to do.

Wild Wes1 votes

Invulnerable: impossible to harm or damage. When only about 10 abilities can hit him, while he is in Alpha, what's the difference. He DOES go invulnerable to any abilities other than debuffs such as DoT's. So unless you're playing a champion WITH DoT, like a poison or burn, he CAN dodge your abilities.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

The difference is that it's not the same logical category and we're pretty done with people messing them up all the time. And it's much more than 10. And no one ever said that he can't dodge abilities. It's the whole point of the spell. He just keeps on him whatever already was on him, because he's not invulnerable. His hp can effectively go down during the frame where he's not on the map.

SlashStriker1 votes

If you are under Damage Over TIme ability like Ignite or Malzahar Malefic Vision during Alpha Strike you can still die. You are not invulnerable How long is Yi's Untargetability, which is not invulnerability because I died during alpha strike million times, compared to malphite's 5 man knock up (so what 5 man X 1 sec = 5 seconds knock up cause you know thats how the league calculates stuff - 4 target on Alpha Strike 400% AD ) combined with orianna's ult and yasuo ult followed by MF ult? With how many champions master Yi synergizes like that?

He is getting hard nerf on his "resets" just because of the god damn sated devourer which breaks his primary goal that gives him some skill - dodge enemy ability to outplay them. Play mid vs ahri and you will see that it would be much tougher than the farming the jungle scenario. I can die million times on lane but in the jungle no one makes me any problems

So for isntance lets compare Yi to Irelia

Irelia got 2 seconds stun with no dodgeability like Yi. 2 second in which you can't do shit! You cant even dodge the damn ability. Yi got less than 1 sec untargetability and no CC. 2 seconds stun vs less than 1 second untargetability - Maths anyone?

Mirkhail1 votes

They are very different champion, also irelia stun is conditional, single target and melee range

SlashStriker1 votes

{quoted}

They are very different champion, also irelia stun is conditional, single target and melee range

just because its single target doesn't mean it suppose to be 5 year stun

TheOvermind4 votes

in a 1v1 scenario, you can't "avoid" him , if Yi wants to fight you HAVE to kill him, there is no outplaying or escaping himor anything like that, like baiting out his uti or whatever. Kill him or he kills you

Elwe The Jungler1 votes

That's what you're gonna tell to your ADC when a fed Yi is running at him? lol

Tarrtarr1 votes

well yes.....what are you going to tell them? Most adcs don't have a stun. Most have a slow which is useless on him during his ulti. Really about the only class that can solo fight yi late game is an assassin or mage which is part of what makes tank yi so frustrating because you cant burst him solo faster then he does you.

agbudar4 votes

like someone else said out of all the melee ad cary champions he actually has the worst reliable method to deal damage.

unless you count how he can dodge some skills with a well timed alpha strike.

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Just nerf Guinsoos. He was fine before they broke it and now its his core.

Ariel the Cruel3 votes

Actually. Guinsoo just effectively gives him AoE and a better heal. Among its abusers, he is actually the least invested. Sated breaks him a lot harder because of his 3 on-hit effects. Bonus AA passive, Alpha strike cooldown buy-back, and bonus true damage.

Photos of Ghosts1 votes

He wasn't more fine than he still is. Warrior - Shiv items aren't significantly lower winrate on him than Devourer - Guinsoo

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