Boards›Gameplay

Garen...

Jefftiffy··1 votes·643 views

Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair? Or are we going to pretend like he's a juggernaut and should always be cancer to fight no matter what he builds unless you hard counter him.

Riot you do remember why you removed that before don't you? (I'll give you a hint, points at his buffed passive) I guess not because you buffed cloth armor and didn't nerf his base armor when you "reworked" cough straight buffed cough cough him. Also you increased his overall mobility and item synergy without nerfing his damage scaling. If you don't counter him the lane feels like almost too literal cancer. You sit there and die or do nothing for the entire laning phase.

The worst part is he doesnt fall off that much unless you are somebody like Vayne who can ignore his armor or infinite kite him.

I mean he obviously isn't weak, he is being used a lot even in diamond level play with a 50-54% win rate. Challenger tends to be low, but I mean at that point there are so few players its not worth nothing. I just wish Riot would make up their mind on him. Is he early game or late game? Why does he have as much armor scaling as Rammus with extra MR? Why does he need an ult to be based on magic damage scaling and then convert to true damage if the enemy somehow gains the lead?

Then I remember that they made this preseason and the entire juggernaut update was a fuck fest and saltily sitting in lane hating life all game because I can't fight Garen because of power creep.

18 Comments

Sasogwa6 votes

You increased his overall mobility

Oh, you mean the movespeed duration lowered and the tenacity removed, right?

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Oh, you mean the movespeed duration lowered and the tenacity removed, right?

Adding in both the new Black Cleaver and Dead Mans more than made up for it. Loses a little permanent MS and duration on bonus in order to run faster and stick better after his power spike. I'd say he is better off. You can't make a tank that is all about sitting on people and killing them. That's called blurring the line between bruiser and tank "not juggernaut". You can be a tank but not have a ton of CC as long as you can stick well enough and shred enough or even force aggro. Tanks will always be healthier with low damage and mostly CC. Why? Because laning against people like Darius and Garen are cancerous. You literally can't farm if you are melee and even if you are ranged you have to try to skirt out of their range at all times.

BastionKross4 votes

Let's be clear: Garen was laughably ineffective pre-juggernaut rework. Very few people above the lower elos picked him because he's easy to counterplay and counterpick. In lower elos he tended to do better since counterpicks are generally unheard of and the level of mechanical skill to Garen as a champion isn't very tough to pick up on. I think he got picked maybe once each year by the pros, and that was usually one of those "we're so much better than the other team we can pick anyone" games. And this was after they made his passive a DrMundo ult if you're out of combat later on in the game.

So those straight buffs did some good if he's seeing play in high elos now. But Garen also got nerfed in key areas: He lost a good chunk of duration on his silence, and he lost the tenacity on his W. His power level did go up overall, but not as far as you seem to imply. He lost a slight amount of early game power (although he's still a capable lane bully) while gaining huge buffs to his late game; which pre-rework was "I'm tanky and I do nothing but silence and ult". It was pathetic. Garen is now pretty strong at all points in the game, especially if he gets ahead, but in return he's predictable and easy to play against. If you think a Garen with a item 3742 is too mobile, I don't know what to say. We live in a world where point and click gapclosers aren't as uncommon as they should be, and not having one is a huge setback for any melee champion.

Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair?

  1. The bonus is capped, it doesn't scale infinitely like other champs.
  2. You actually have to farm to get it, which means if Garen is zoned off his minions by a champion he can't deal with easily, he won't get the bonus as quickly.
Ralanr1 votes

Exactly. I don't like Garen, but he finally got played at higher tier as a decent to good choice. He went from a starter character to someone reliable in multiple levels of play.

Is he annoying? He's hell to casters (hence why I hate him because I play a lot of ability reliant champions) so yes. Is he broken? Only in the same way as Yi or other hypercarries. If you let them farm then you can't remove them.

He is more of a late game champion ( though you can bully with a late game champion. I've bullied Iee Sin as Sion once).

BeatzBoyFTW3 votes

{quoted}

Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair?

Shyvana And you're not gonna complain about her. Typical.

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Shyvana And you're not gonna complain about her. Typical.

She doesn't really scale without ult. Also she doesn't have a silence and insane early game. She is mid-late game. She also doesn't ult a person with 500 left out of 900 for 300+ damage.

Sona Ping3 votes

{quoted}

Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair? Or are we going to pretend like he's a juggernaut and should always be cancer to fight no matter what he builds unless you hard counter him.

Riot you do remember why you removed that before don't you? (I'll give you a hint, points at his buffed passive) I guess not because you buffed cloth armor and didn't nerf his base armor when you "reworked" cough straight buffed cough cough him. Also you increased his overall mobility and item synergy without nerfing his damage scaling. If you don't counter him the lane feels like almost too literal cancer. You sit there and die or do nothing for the entire laning phase.

The worst part is he doesnt fall off that much unless you are somebody like Vayne who can ignore his armor or infinite kite him.

I mean he obviously isn't weak, he is being used a lot even in diamond level play with a 50-54% win rate. Challenger tends to be low, but I mean at that point there are so few players its not worth nothing. I just wish Riot would make up their mind on him. Is he early game or late game? Why does he have as much armor scaling as Rammus with extra MR? Why does he need an ult to be based on magic damage scaling and then convert to true damage if the enemy somehow gains the lead?

Then I remember that they made this preseason and the entire juggernaut update was a fuck fest and saltily sitting in lane hating life all game because I can't fight Garen because of power creep.

"Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair?" Considering that all tanky champions have things that synergize with being built tanky, thus providing justification for being built tank: No. Because we don't have to pretend; that's the way it is in this game.

P.S. You are not doing your argument any favors by comparing him to Rammus, of all champions.

Jefftiffy1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i6Vurejy,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-25T15:07:54.725+0000)

"Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair?" Considering that all tanky champions have things that synergize with being built tanky, thus providing justification for being built tank: No. Because we don't have to pretend; that's the way it is in this game.

P.S. You are not doing your argument any favors by comparing him to Rammus, of all champions.

I'm saying is that with his passive, he gets the same armor as Rammus someone meant to be built all armor. The average armor scaling on champ is up to 75 armor Garen doesn't drop below or above that and can farm for 30 of it and have about 3 less armor innately than Rammus.

They removed it back in I think S2 because it was oppressive. It shouldn't exist in his kit, and let's look at the state of the game in S2 then look at it since the Juggernaut rework and tell me just how much it indicates about how much they have lost sight on this game.

AyRe CoNteMpT3 votes

the fact that you call garens earlygame strong proves that your opinion is worthless because not based on facts

aside from that, garens rework was a nerf but hes still good right now and he should be left alone

FioraWillCarry2 votes

{quoted}

Are we ever going to pretend like getting free armor and mr for farming on top of scaling base armor scaling is fair? Or are we going to pretend like he's a juggernaut and should always be cancer to fight no matter what he builds unless you hard counter him.

Riot you do remember why you removed that before don't you? (I'll give you a hint, points at his buffed passive) I guess not because you buffed cloth armor and didn't nerf his base armor when you "reworked" cough straight buffed cough cough him. Also you increased his overall mobility and item synergy without nerfing his damage scaling. If you don't counter him the lane feels like almost too literal cancer. You sit there and die or do nothing for the entire laning phase.

The worst part is he doesnt fall off that much unless you are somebody like Vayne who can ignore his armor or infinite kite him.

I mean he obviously isn't weak, he is being used a lot even in diamond level play with a 50-54% win rate. Challenger tends to be low, but I mean at that point there are so few players its not worth nothing. I just wish Riot would make up their mind on him. Is he early game or late game? Why does he have as much armor scaling as Rammus with extra MR? Why does he need an ult to be based on magic damage scaling and then convert to true damage if the enemy somehow gains the lead?

Then I remember that they made this preseason and the entire juggernaut update was a fuck fest and saltily sitting in lane hating life all game because I can't fight Garen because of power creep.

Yea, Garen is truly unfair at the moment. The only way I've seen him beat is with multiple hard CC all coming at him at once. Otherwise, there is nothing that can stop him from running into your team and killing half of them. And he can start doing this with only two tank items. It's real bullshit.

Oh God and don't get me started on his bullshit passive.....Pure cancer. Worse than Mundo.

RogueWill2 votes

{quoted}

Yea, Garen is truly unfair at the moment. The only way I've seen him beat is with multiple hard CC all coming at him at once. Otherwise, there is nothing that can stop him from running into your team and killing half of them. And he can start doing this with only two tank items. It's real bullshit.

Oh God and don't get me started on his bullshit passive.....Pure cancer. Worse than Mundo.

Try Trundle...onceyou hit 6 no matter what garen does he can't kill you or even trade properly with you.

redniwediS1 votes

As a Garen main I can confirm there is something Garen can do to stop a level 6 Trundle; ask his team for a 3 man gank.

RogueWill1 votes

{quoted}

As a Garen main I can confirm there is something Garen can do to stop a level 6 Trundle; ask his team for a 3 man gank.

At lvl 6 that might work at lvl 11, Trundle would get a double lol. I have played that match on both sides and can tell you for sure the only way to kill him is bait his ult why keeping yours and then re enagage so trundle cant still your resistances

Sneakyy XD2 votes

{quoted}

free armor and mr

Please post on the correct board.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/memes

Djoc2 votes

Garen is a balanced champ. Hes supposed to be a tank... How can you expect a champion to have little to no damage? It is league of legends! Look at vayne for example vs Garen... Vayne has almost 100% Pure counter play! So stop hating on garen and maybe give him a try. I always hated garen until i played him. He's good, balanced and very fun to play. You can't always just rush into the middle of a team thinking your invincible!

Jefftiffy1 votes

{quoted}

Garen is a balanced champ. Hes supposed to be a tank... How can you expect a champion to have little to no damage? It is league of legends! Look at vayne for example vs Garen... Vayne has almost 100% Pure counter play! So stop hating on garen and maybe give him a try. I always hated garen until i played him. He's good, balanced and very fun to play. You can't always just rush into the middle of a team thinking your invincible!

Counter pick does not equal counter play. Counter play is building or playing around a kit. Garens offers none other than stay the fuck away from him. Garen has a mix of magic and physical damage with situational true damage and innate tank. So he can rush a black cleaver and not give a fuck in the world if you are a tank/bruiser/caster as long as you aren't ranged or have lots of DoTs he wins.

Unpaladin2 votes

Are you pretending that this extra Armor and Magic Resist functionality is new? His old W was a LOT better; not only did he get potentially more resistances over game time but he also had Tenacity for free. But now, Garen actually has to level up his W to get more Armor and MR. This means that he loses out on Q's damage and most importantly Movement Speed.

It's nice that leveling up W does something now, but I'd only consider doing that an emergency situation in which you absolutely need to be able to take damage. It's fine, quite like if you were forced to level up a shield ability instead of something that helps fighting efficiency on say, Shen or Lulu.

barbarianskull1 votes

I just hate his ult that's it

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by Jefftiffy

I'm tired of the fucking defeatist attitude in this game
Gameplay225 comments
203
votes
I'm not going to lie. I hate the new trinkets
Gameplay88 comments
184
votes
Kind of tired of LB
Gameplay93 comments
85
votes
This Gnar Syndra interaction
Gameplay41 comments
82
votes
Hrm I wonder why Red's don't post here
Gameplay74 comments
76
votes
Camille is probably one of the most toxic champs right now
Gameplay93 comments
72
votes