I feel like the last-hitting of non-marksmen AD champs should be equal to Mages

Strawberrycocoa·Dec 3, 2016·2 votes·334 views

I dunno, it just bugs my shit when I'm playing an AP champion like a Mage who has weak AD and is better at waveclearing with spells than farming with autos, but then I gotta deal with an AD champ who gets to farm with auto attacks AND waveclear with abilities, and is usually manaless so they don't need to choose between spending resources to farm or spending resources to harass, they just get everything back to 100% in a few seconds.

Keep auto attacks against Champions the same, that's fine, but I don't think a damage penalty to minions would be infeasible to constrain how much they get to abuse a lack of resource gating during lane phase.

7 Comments

StephenizgodDec 3, 20164 votes

Then you remember that you are a ranged mage with extreme burst and hard CC and that melee AD champion shouldn't even be getting close to farm without taking a ton of free harass... because you are a ranged mage with extreme burst and hard CC.

Garen Kled Renekton Rengar Riven Shyvana Tryndamere Yasuo (Im probably missing a few)

Other than Yasuo, they can all be punished pretty hard by Mages when they go to farm. You just need to know how.

StrawberrycocoaDec 3, 20162 votes

The problem I seem to run into is that punishing them for farming is only a short term possibility. The retreat to safety, potion-up, then come back with a replensihed health bar, but my mana doesn't get to recover that quickly. If I chase them when they retreat I either die to junglers or eat minion fire and lose too much health. If I back off and harass them the next time the poke their nose in to farm, I just spend more mana that won't come back fast enough to do anything. They win by Attrition, basically.

I'm glad you mentioned Yasuo honestly. It was having to lane against him that pushed my NaCl up enough to post this. Fucker has too many built-in safety nets. I just didn't want to mention him by name and bring on the downvote barrage from his fanboys.

Ark SorcererDec 3, 20161 votes

Is this in the mid lane? If so, learn how to poke. As a mid lane mage player, harassing and poking are two different things. Poking is damaging the minions while attempting to damage the enemy laner, while harassing is using a ability to specifically attack the enemy laner while not taking minion aggro. As I play Ahri, she will be my example. Ahri's q, Orb of Deception, would be consider poking while her w, Foxfire, would be harassment. When I q, I aim it that so it will hit the most minions while getting the enemy laner in the cross fire. It gets both the minions and the enemy. If it misses the enemy, it still gets the minions so it is not a waste of a spell, cool down and mana. Harassment on Ahri is using her single target spell w to specifically trade with the enemy laner while not getting any or no more than 2 minions damaged. Though the mana cost is low, the trade off is usually not good as it is a recoverable amount of damage throughout the early game. Evolve your skill so you can try to get both minions and the enemy laner in the cross fire and not use it specifically on the enemy laner. This probably didn't answer anything, but if you have a question about this, I will try to answer it to the best of my ability.

StephenizgodDec 3, 20161 votes

It seems you are confusing harass with going all in. The goal isn't to insta-kill them, it is to deny them farm. You shouldn't be spending all your mana and you shouldn't be over-extending. You are not trying to kill them, you are trying to stop them from farming without losing CS.

Big LincolnDec 3, 20162 votes

Then let me have ranged AoE CC burst like the standard cancer mage Riot pumps out

oh, wait, I'm mostly single target and melee

Ark SorcererDec 3, 20161 votes

Something to consider is that mages are the best wave clear champs in the game. Use 2 abilities to finish of 6 minions in, say, 3 seconds while marksmen rely on attack speed and crits to finish them off. You know when a cluster of minions go to your turrets and you go there to take of them? Well, a mage can finish all the caster minions (say 15) in one go while marksmen must take their slow time with auto attacks.

I disagree that melee champs should have weaker auto attacks, because, well, they are melee. How is it fair to have a melee champ with a Giant Axe (Sion) have the same damage as a ice shard (Lissandra)? It is the difference between range and melee characters. When, in any game, is that not the case?