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The real problem with Senna ADC is her SUPPORTS.

Illabethe·11/30/2019, 3:29:21 PM·14 votes·7,560 views

I don't know how many people are looking beyond impulsive win/ban/pick rate stats, but there's a glaring stat available on U.GG that speaks volumes as to what's actually wrong with Bot lane, and in fact..... many post 50% adcs:

https://u.gg/lol/duo-tier-list/

Duo tier calculates the win rates based upon a specific champion comp. Order by Win rate, and the top 6 responses are Senna as adc.

However..... Look at the supports she's teamed with:

And...... then you scan down the list for other Senna adc comps....... and you FINE NONE.

Somehow, Senna only has 6 tracked support combos, and none of them are etc etc.

#They are Hard CC Supports, and primarily 2 specific supports:

Other than a Zyra/Jhin duo and an Ashe/Brand duo, Every single combo breaking a 55% win rate is either Senna or Nautilus or both.

Something else that should catch your eye: A lot of these duos are holding a 70% + Ban rate.

Part of that is attributable to Senna's own ban rate, but part of it is the fact people are banning these supports too. 33.2% Ban Rate 17.4% Ban Rate 43.2% Ban Rate 18.3% Ban Rate 9.8% Ban Rate

If you add up the pick rates for these supports, they make up literally 1/2 of Senna's active ADC games

Now...... Who are Senna's biggest counters? are three of them.

In other words, Senna's in a unique position where all her winning duos are composed of her own counters, so that they can't counter her.

#But then you look down the list.... and Nautilus is the strongest duo for at least 12 adcs. Leona for 11.

#Has any of you considered that the primary difference between Support Senna and Adc Senna..... is the availability of a hard CC Support?

39 Comments

WoonStruck11/30/2019, 3:45:21 PM14 votes

Okay, if the problem with Senna is her supports, why doesn't every ADC have her winrate?

Hook supports have gained notoriety for a reason. They do well vs all ADCs.

And if Senna can only be stopped by 3 or 4 supports, which you basically keep claiming...that kinda says she needs nerfs.

Vlada Cut11/30/2019, 3:58:39 PM9 votes

No, Adc Senna's biggest issue is that she has built in sustain that actual adc's aren't supposed to and don't have.

Healing AND Shielding, that's too much even for Kai'Sa.

Oh, and did I forget she has same DPS as Jhin and Graves, but has twice the sustain types than them WHILE THEY HAVE NONE DAMN IT.

Chembaron Yamada11/30/2019, 4:45:39 PM5 votes

No, that is not "the real problem".

Any ADC with hard CC does well with these supports, since they can chain them together to create easy kills. Like how Caitlyn can place traps under CCed enemies for her powerful combo, how Jinx can place her chompers to extend the CC, and so on. Senna also can use her root on a CCed target to keep them in place.

Senna specifically then gives additional safety to these supports, since she can heal them with her Q during the all in. Don't forget that 4 of the 6 supports you mentioned here lost a source of sustain, since the relic shield line doesn't heal anymore. Senna can compensate for that.

I know you like Senna. But the data clearly shows that she is a problem and needs some nerfs.

Thorn Fierce Red11/30/2019, 3:39:40 PM4 votes

Senna vs Pyke

Both huge damage and support.

Baby Ghoul12/1/2019, 3:17:18 AM3 votes

Both can be correct, especially in this meta.

Nautilus and Leona are broken right now, but again, that doesn't excuse Senna's absurd levels of damage and utility.

ADC Senna is a major problem, and she's mostly only viable with Nautilus and Leona, but support Senna is also a problem right now and yes her numbers do need to be toned down.

GankLord11/30/2019, 3:57:45 PM3 votes

I love how you will defend this champion with your dying breath when she's a problem in herself. More power to you. I can agree with you with the support argument but that's not why Senna is an issue. You can apply this argument to any adc.

Madra12/1/2019, 11:07:06 AM2 votes

A player like Doinb actually managed to win worlds. That should automatically make you look at champions like Nautilus and Galio as targets that needs nerfs. Everybody knows that Nautilus is too strong and has too much CC and damage and defense and mobility.

Hayaishi211/30/2019, 5:15:08 PM2 votes

She just has too much in her kit. She has the ability to sustain, can follow up with her root, Senna's root is pretty much a death sentence in lane, which gives her a lot of agency that honestly she shouldn't have.

The only way to deal with senna is gutting her, her can't be balanced, as usual with Riot.

Thefrostyviking11/30/2019, 5:48:26 PM2 votes

It´s true that many of Senna´s support pairings are missing from that page but if you look at her own page on the same site and the dou's page there then there´s 33 options.

I am fairly sure her winrate´s are properly tracked overall.

And the largest problem with Senna is basically that she is a free win with one of those supports that counter her, they might need some nerfs to bring them down a notch but she definitely needs a large one too if there is no way to beat her aside from picking one of those 3.

In addition, Heimer is the best, rocket science OP:

Fuhrer Usagi11/30/2019, 6:36:58 PM2 votes

Wrong. The problem is that she can cancel her attack animations to do 6 attacks in 3 seconds max attack speed characters can do 5 attacks in 2 seconds. She can attack almost as fast as someone building only AS: Just watch this no attack speed

The problem is that she can extend her Q through minions to poke and kill someone longer than her actual 600 starting range meaning she can poke someone outside turret range https://www.reddit.com/r/sennamains/comments/e31bzs/love_this_mechanic/

The problem is that she can do 25% of a jarvans HP with a auto attack at level 10 then poke down 3 other people outside of range even when under their turret. And her Q goes through windwall.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sennamains/comments/e1uqit/pretty_nice_2v4_nothing_crazy_but_some_nice_heal/

The problem is that level 3 senna has enough speed and range to out poke and kill a brand jhin combo

https://www.reddit.com/r/sennamains/comments/e2zm8t/senna_supp/

The problem is that the champion is broken and you keep trying to make excuses for why shes not since you don't want her to be balanced and actually require some skill to use and get fed on. Like actual ADCS and supports.

Reduce her range, Sona has a short range and low HP, yet she can still get fed and bully since you can dodge skill shots. Caitlyn has range but she requires 3 AA or someone to step on her trap to hit as hard as Senna level 1.Senna has no reason to hit that hard and have that much range level 1.

xelaker11/30/2019, 10:32:03 PM1 votes

Short time to kill and cc is obviously gonna be a match made in heaven...

Beerstein11/30/2019, 10:40:26 PM1 votes

The problem is ADCs shouldn't have utility. Add utility to ADCs, put it with supports that have utility...GG games broken.

What makes her worse than Jinx/Cait is SHE can land the first CC (as opposed to the support) then the support can follow that up with 100% hit rate (otherwise skillshot) chain CC.

Normally ADCs follow up on support CC. With Senna, she has a safe CC that isn't reliant on the enemy doing something stupid that the support can follow up on.

...Though I should say ONE of the problems. Riot trying to create a "ranged ADC support" was just dumb.

The thigh guy12/1/2019, 3:16:06 AM1 votes

The support picks are because those are the only playable supports atm.

Engage supports are just the only thing that works.

SheikhEleazar11/30/2019, 5:04:10 PM1 votes

Pick the odd one out:

Senna adc Pyke support Thresh mid Teemo jungle

Metal Janna11/30/2019, 4:23:21 PM1 votes

Wow I had no idea Senna ADC was actually meta now. I've supported one precisely once... We got counterpicked and she spent the whole match eating Leona hooks and then flaming me for not somehow saving her.