They say 'high skill cap champs should have lower win rates'.

Eedat·May 23, 2017·106 votes·7,653 views

Then there is something seriously wrong with

He has a >50% win rate in all ELOs and 53-54% in Plat+. Its not like he has a negligible playrate either. He's been in 4/5 of my games today and the one he wasn't in he was banned.

Considering Draven is supposedly one of the higher skillcap champs in the game, something seems very off. His level 1 damage coupled with the rate at which he snowballs are out of control. Addressing that would be my suggestion.

200 Comments

FeelsCampedManMay 23, 201780 votes

Gotta love it when Draven cashes once in and comes back to lane like: item 3047 item 3812 item 3031 item 3072 item 3046 item 3036 ######Note: Hyperbole

3TWarriorMay 24, 201714 votes

he has to get a kill though XD Draven : R!!!! there's your kill!

sir d wreckMay 24, 201712 votes

misses

Draven Draaaven...

FatedSaviourMay 24, 20177 votes

dont forget, it will come back

missed again

Draven DRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAVEN!!!

rtbf225618241May 24, 20174 votes

And his team secures 3 Infernals, Elder and Baron.

Gotta love them 600+ AD crits.

crippler38May 24, 20172 votes

play jhin if you want that every game den

FatedSaviourMay 24, 20172 votes

but jhin cant do 600+ ad crits with at least 2 atk speed

JofeyyMay 24, 20173 votes

Draven can hit you 5 times by the time you finish reloading LOL

crippler38May 24, 20173 votes

I'd like to see him live to me reloading.

Mody birdMay 24, 201719 votes

Muhahahah people are starting to realize my main is op

oh wait

oh no

please no

undesirable teamMay 23, 201718 votes

Coming from a draven main. this is because they're nerfing pretty much everything that stops him, and buffing what gives him power item 3812 helped CRIT: helped him Caitlyn nerfs are going to help him lot of assassin nerfs and survivability buffs helped him

RavenMagusMay 24, 20173 votes

They've also given him direct buffs a couple times already.

I'm actually scared every time Draven gets mentioned in patch notes, because it's always another small buff that pushes him even further over the top.

Only Play DariusMay 24, 201713 votes

It's because of GA. Before if you put the resources into killing a fed Draven he would lose his stacks and you had a window to catch up. Now he just builds GA second and keeps his stacks even if he fucks up

CochoMay 23, 201710 votes

The play rate doesnt tell the whole story. If we look at http://champion.gg/champion/Draven/ADC?league= He doesn't have a positive winrate until 50+ games. Riven doesn't until 101+ If we look at ahri or annie, they have positive winrates at 1-51 games. Not the whole reason just a thought

EedatMay 23, 201718 votes

Champion.gg's whole player experience thing has been broken for months and everyone knows it.

For example, it says 75% of his games are played by the "under 50 games" demographic at 45% win rate, yet his overall win rate is 53%?

Not to mention there are some champs where the graphs and the stats they give are actually mathematically impossible to be correct when compared

AirKingNeoMay 23, 201715 votes

Please use a more reliable source.

MarshbouyMay 23, 20172 votes

What's wrong with champion.gg?

ShivarusMay 23, 20177 votes

From what I understand, champion.gg only pulls data from the first few days of each patch, while players are still getting used to changes, leading to wildly inaccurate data. I've heard that league of graphs is far more reliable.

ModAcademy KaynMay 24, 20175 votes

I'm a personal fan of Lolalytics.

JbelsMay 23, 20176 votes

Where is the skill in Draven? Is it managing your spinning axes? Because after you learn how to do that he can't be that hard considering his stupid damage in the early game

Edit: lol, salty Draven mains much? I know Sion doesn't require much skill to execute, as least I can admit that

AMYS GRAVEMay 23, 20172 votes

Yeah, his spinning axes create a skill floor, which i think is the confusion. Once you learn to direct where your axes will fall you've basically mastered him.

AdeBugMay 23, 20173 votes

"Why, thank you." Did not know you can direct, til now :D (don't own him)

OelykMay 24, 20172 votes

I don't even play Draven, but I do know if you move after throwing an axe before it hits the target, it will go in the same direction you moved too.

ShadowParkerMay 23, 201737 votes

Draven is a high skill cap champion, especially compared to all other adcs.

GeshultzMay 23, 20172 votes

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/draven/adc/platinum

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/tristana/adc/platinum

http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/varus/adc/platinum http://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/missfortune/adc/platinum

Not really. Statistics wise, all marksmen are the same curve just a few examples above. Some are stronger some are weaker but have same curve/ close winrate.

dunder killMay 23, 201718 votes

Try playing him. You'll figure it out

GeshultzMay 23, 20178 votes

Only difficult thing about him is figuring out when to let go of axes and when to catch them. To learn that takes around 5 games to 100 depending on how fast at learning/ good the player playing draven is. Otherwise his skillcap is average as any other immobile marksmen in the game.

Draven's kit's own skill can be shown Canceling dashes with e Using w to dodge things properly Deciding to catch or drop axes Hitting skill shots in kit/animation canceling Kog'maw's skill example Proper usage of w/ making sure not to waste w Hitting skillshots in kit Hitting skill shots in kit/animation canceling Learning when to use spells like q and e

But point is that draven himself is an average skillcap honestly. High skill floor definitely but thats the main difference in difficulty compared to other marksmen.

dunder killMay 23, 201718 votes

Only difficult thing about him is figuring out when to let go of axes and when to catch them.

Lol no its not.

You are constantly microing two axes. You have to anticipate the flow of the fight and manually position them correctly in advance. Failure to do so means you lose a large chunk of your DPS.

Kog, in comparison is extremely easy mechanically. Kog's spells account for a very small amount of his damage in an actual team fight. The biggest thing you need to do as Kog is position correctly. This is an example of game knowledge, not mechanics. This applies to all immobile damage sources. The only real mechanically difficult part of Kog is orb walking properly which is no different from any ADC.

GeshultzMay 24, 20175 votes

To be fair draven also has more tools to repostion with his e and w movement speed buff that also resets on catching axes. meaning overall positioning is harder on kog'maw that and draven is normally goes a way tankier build then normal. Making his postioning even less punshing to get hit by, but sure he loses a decent amount of dps if he can't catch a single axe, but even 3 axes is 150+3.05 bonus ad in damage along with 40% as isn't that punishing.

That and his base offensive stats are really good for a marksmen http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Draven 0.679 base attack speed with 2.7% scaling(Base is really above average) 55 base ad with 2.91 ad per level scaling(Good ad scaling then most marksmen)

But I do agree that his main thing that gives him his skillcap is his axes, but it is about above average in terms of difficulty of marksmen. (I consider kalista having highest skillcap followed by xayah then ezreal, then utility marksmen then draven is equal to vayne in terms of skillcap)

PoskeMay 24, 20173 votes

Axes literaly go where you want them to. Its not that hard There are some mechanics you should know like ER Flashing and carrying animation triple axe magement etc

As for kog maw skillcap

You need some damn fast fingers or scripts to unlock him

Pre revert video though https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzW1oET3n-8

TheorcheroMay 24, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i1Y20xOk,comment-id=0001000100000000000000000002,timestamp=2017-05-24T08:55:01.300+0000)

Pre revert video though

You literally just lost all credibility when you linked a pre revert video. It shows you have zero comprehension of what orb walking really means. You COULDN'T have orbwalked with kog pre revert, his attack speed was too high unless you used scripts.

Draven is the hardest adc, period. OP's argument also failed to account for sample sizes. A higher skill cap champion has its winrate depressed overall, but not for dedicated mains.

https://i.gyazo.com/015b5c1bf57ab8a1c89d5c363b3e3972.png

Which as you can see, he did not account for at all.

FatedSaviourMay 24, 20173 votes

you may be able to defend he could be high skill cap, but srsly, not the hardest

Troll for TrumpMay 24, 20171 votes

Draven's skill cap (that sets him above a "standard" adc) are

Microing
Decision Making

Microing because of how Axes work. Two is hard enough, some Dravens can juggle 3 (with sufficient attackspeed)

Draven's decision making is more polar than other ADCs; it's more high risk and reward. If you can't make decisions and commit to them, playing Draven is a bad idea.

SH AzykanMay 24, 20171 votes

and then you get fabbby who will juggle 4-5 axes in a team fight...

MhihnjMay 24, 20172 votes

4-5 axes don't really add that much to your DPS. 3 is the most efficient at maximising your dps.

ShirvallahMay 24, 20172 votes

{quoted}

Draven is a high skill cap champion, especially compared to all other adcs.

I wouldn't go as far as saying "all other adc's." Vayne, Lucian, and Ezreal are all tough in their own right (to play them effectively, at least — especially Vayne).

But yes, Draven is a hard adc to play.

SweedishGunnerMay 24, 20178 votes

I wouldn't call Lucian tough to play. He's bogstandard.

Troll for TrumpMay 24, 20176 votes

"High skillcap champs are supposed to have lower winrates" "Simple champs are supposed to have lower winrates"

Then what is supposed to have a high winrate?

SinlaireMay 24, 20175 votes

LeeSin

InsaneKiller02May 24, 20176 votes

Yeah, speaking of high skill cap champs. Garen has 47% in Plat+, so that's kinda fair.

######landing these ults is really hard man

SkorchMay 24, 20174 votes

personally i think that high skill caps SHOULDNT have lower winrates as long as games played is in line.

GGLineaRMay 24, 20172 votes

I'd say Draven and Jhin are probably the most difficult ADCs. Draven requires faster reflexes and coordination than most adcs, and Playing Jhin requires much more planning and precision than other adcs.

Of course, this is just my opinion.

InivtesPreezeMay 24, 20173 votes

I love Jhin so much, his skill cap isn't all twitch bullshit button mashing. It takes actual talent to be good with Jhin, who has almost no mobility or self-peel.

GGLineaRMay 24, 20172 votes

Also requires a lot of forethought, which I respect.

SH AzykanMay 24, 20173 votes

"no self peel" can outrun an udyr...and has a snare?

AmazoXMay 24, 20174 votes

If you are out running an udyr as Jhin than Udyr has got issues..

SH AzykanMay 24, 20176 votes

https://youtu.be/BrP0H-n0x3Q

fTSc5tIc8KMay 26, 20172 votes

"The build only works this effectively in URF mode"

Hay5eedMay 24, 20171 votes

Honestly Draven isn't TOO terribly hard to play considering that mid game three autos can kill someone.

If a Draven gets out of control then it's the supports fault (especially if they are an engage or poke support). The support needs to make sure that Draven is paying for every axe he catches or even better zone him from catching them