@Meddler Are we going to be seeing Twitch nerfs anytime soon?

awdaf·Jun 17, 2017·71 votes·3,134 views

The play style around him shouldn't be trying to end the game before he gets 3 items. His kit offers to much. His Q is way to overloaded, it resets on every kill, and gives an attack speed steroid for when he gets into position to auto attack you from 850 range away, and on top of that, his ult is also overloaded, why does it give bonus AD on activation? Even in lane it's hard to punish him because of how effective his E is at level 5, any decent support that's helping him in lane will win the 2v2 almost every time. And why in the hell does his invisibility last for 14 seconds at max rank, that's pretty much throwing an Evelynn into his kit.

91 Comments

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 17, 201733 votes

tbh i feel like stealth of marksmens ( Vayne Twitch ) aren't fair .

Karn BishopJun 18, 201713 votes

Stealth adc are in general poorly implemented in league, so i dont get why someone downvoted you.

crippler38Jun 18, 20173 votes

That's because unlike dota (clinkz, anyone who buys a shadow blade, anyone who has a support with that cloak thing,) you can't reveal the stealth ranged carries in this game until they're about to blow you up.

SjB7wq5vm5Jun 18, 20171 votes

Get a sweeper, problem solved.

SweedishGunnerJun 18, 20177 votes

Lul.

korg023Jun 18, 20171 votes

Couldnt think of better answer myself.

NoZodiacJun 18, 201714 votes

Try playing the computer game League of Legends before commenting again

SjB7wq5vm5Jun 18, 20171 votes

Are you saying that because I'm level 9 on this account? Lol, I'm not new.

GasburgerJun 18, 20179 votes

No, he's saying that because you think control wards reveal stealth

SjB7wq5vm5Jun 18, 20173 votes

Apologies on that, I'm rusty as hell to League, but I figured they did the same because they replaced Pink Wards.

GasburgerJun 18, 20172 votes

Np :)

SwimyFishJun 18, 20172 votes

Um, they do? Are you stupid? Twitch does NOT have stealth in his kit, he has camouflage, a la Rengar or Eve. Control Wards CAN and DO reveal camouflage, therefore control wards reveal Twitch. To be honest, absolutely nothing has changed about Twitch since back when he was considered trash tier months ago, he's the same champion. It's time for the boards to recognize that the champs they complain about are way less problematic than they make them out to be, and that Twitch is just this months scapegoat for people bitching about how much they hate this game. Twitch is not a problem, nor was Orianna a couple months ago (even though I hate her), and neither will the next champion the boards decide to crucify be a problem.

Teridax68Jun 21, 20172 votes

Heya! Just popping in to mention that expressions like "are you stupid?" tend to be received really badly, and are more conducive to arguments and antagonistic behavior than productive discussion. The same goes for the general tone of this comment, which frames what would otherwise be a rather good point on Gameplay's attitude as a means of putting down players who might have valid arguments themselves.

I know it can feel frustrating at times to talk to players on here who might be flat-out unreasonable, incorrect and/or in denial, but even when calling them out, it is best to respond with courtesy and grace, and work towards a better understanding of each other's opinions and the game. If they show they clearly cannot have a mature or constructive discussion, don't feed into their negativity, and leave a report so that we can handle it (within reason; please don't use it just because someone said something you disagree with :P).

SwimyFishAug 2, 20172 votes

Lol I just saw this. You are correct in every way. A sincere mb. Twitch is one of my most mastered champions, and I was having a knee-jerk reaction to people ganging up on him with invalid arguments. I agree that my tone in this comment didn't help my own cause. Sorry about that, and keep up the genuine and helpful moderating! ^_^

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20177 votes

Vayne is more bullshit due to her going in and out of stealth.

Twitch's stealth just lasts too long in my opinion.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20172 votes

Vayne is bs due to her marksman scaling (i mean she scale hard like all adc). And she have a hard cc.

SauceyapplesJun 18, 20172 votes

She is the only adc with any sort of hard cc, but its on the condition an enemy is close to wall and she's on the opposing side. I don't however think she's un balanced considering her main counter... Caitlyn... Is considered to be more powerful than her and can shut her down easily.

"Vayne is bs due to her marksman scaling (i mean she scales hard like every adc)" I don't see the problem here bc you contradicted yourself.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20171 votes

I don't however think she's un balanced considering her main counter... Caitlyn... Is considered to be more powerful than her and can shut her down easily.

??? so unrelated. Obviously a counter will shut her.

"Vayne is bs due to her marksman scaling (i mean she scales hard like every adc)" I don't see the problem here bc you contradicted yourself.

Where do u see a contradiction ? marksman scaling mean she's great late nothing more nothing less.

SjB7wq5vm5Jun 18, 20172 votes

I think he's saying it's contradicting because he's saying her scaling is what makes her bs, but then it says "like every adc", so every adc is bs, making her point invalid.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20171 votes

ah... but what he don't take in account is her self peeling, coupled to her stealth and "mobility".

SauceyapplesJun 18, 20171 votes

True, I didn't because his argument didn't, which those are more the problem with Vayne than adc scaling and a stun.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20171 votes

yeah... because my main issue is with her, not all adc.

statelesskillerJun 18, 20172 votes

quinn has a cc thats basically vaynes E . . but worse if you ask me. urgots got one. cait kinda has one if you step on them. jinx. kalista if her bond is nearby. xayah. drave, varus

you know just saying other adcs have cc

One Ashe OnJun 18, 20171 votes

{quoted}

quinn has a cc thats basically vaynes E . . but worse if you ask me. urgots got one. cait kinda has one if you step on them. jinx. kalista if her bond is nearby. xayah. drave, varus

you know just saying other adcs have cc

You forgot someone.. Ashe

statelesskillerJun 18, 20171 votes

indeed i did

Pierce The VealJun 18, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Ryuumoku no koke,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hv23GPdY,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-17T22:30:29.718+0000)

tbh i feel like stealth of marksmens ( ) aren't fair .

This...

TóxicoChicoGuapoJun 18, 20172 votes

vayne's is fine because she is so short range. twitch opens up with absurd range out of stealth. making him super safe and pretty easy to unload on the backline with.

vayne has to use her stealth stategically mainly to dodge shit. its annoying, but balanceable.

Daddy Tie Me UpJun 18, 20171 votes

Stealth isnt fair in general

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20171 votes

MonkeyKing & Khazix are IMO.

SociopathFriendJun 18, 20171 votes

Wukong isn't. He not OP but he sure as hell isn't "fair".

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20171 votes

Wtf ? he has only 1,5 sec of invisibility. He's totaly fair (his invisibility is)... Wu is garbage btw

SociopathFriendJun 19, 20171 votes

Those 1.5 seconds are all Vayne has as well, people bitch about that but Wukong is fine?

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 19, 20171 votes

comparing a melee to a range... funny

korg023Jun 18, 20171 votes

Unpopular opinion maybe, but i feel like Vayne ult stealth is waaay bigger bullshit than Twitch camouflage. When twitch is out of his stealth all he has is to damage you and hope he kills you even tho his damage is huuuuuge but depending on sutuation you can actually run at him stun him ,burst him etc? Well with Vayne she just goes invisible multiple times, dashes around,stuns you in wall and still deals true % hp damage to you with Q crits and everything. You just dont see her ever , its hilariously sad.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJun 18, 20171 votes

totally agree.

THE RlVER KlNGJun 17, 201725 votes

I hate Twitch as much as the next guy but this post is an exaggerated mess that offers no solutions.

Wukong AirlinesJun 17, 201714 votes

"we're currently lkegjskjhb cx.k cvm.mgnmb. m ,v.c " "yes im a rioter and I know what I'm doing".

AirKingNeoJun 17, 201713 votes

"Yes we plan to nerf Fiora."

There are 0 Fiora nerfs on the PBE

"Yes we plan to adress Kennen"

Buffs Kennen and refuses to nerf his ult

Pale PirateJun 18, 20172 votes

When you put it like this it sounds bad and all, but then you compare RIOT to other companies like Valve or even EA/Ubisoft (shudders) and comparatively it doesn't look any bad.

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20172 votes

We aren't talking about Riot as a company. We're talking about the balance team of Riot.

JaxMoonStealerJun 18, 20173 votes

"Fiora - Theory is she may not be sufficiently weak in match ups she does poorly in relative to how well she does in match ups she does well in (her counters are noticeably softer than the degree she counters others basically). Still investigating."

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/haWf2QnU-quick-gameplay-thoughts-june-13?comment=00080001

AirKingNeoJun 18, 20172 votes

How stupid is the balance team? Can it be put on a scale? One entire year of overpowered and still not nerfed.

My HeartshakerJun 18, 20173 votes

How can you say any of that when it's not even close to the end of PBE yet? It's like you're just spewing shit just to hate on riot.

Kennen's AD build got hurt so that his AP build could become more viable since that's what people have been complaining about since forever.

Mira Arya EntheJun 18, 20177 votes

I don't think any champion should have a primary counterplay of 'beat them before/after x timestamp'. There should be powerspikes, lane bullies and carries. But these champions who make it so you cannot lane Pantheon but then become worthless, or these ones who are worthless but then win because time passed Twitch annoy the hell out of me.

korg023Jun 18, 20171 votes

Why not? League is huge game we should have diversity , that is why early game and late game exist.

Mira Arya EntheJun 18, 20171 votes

Late game champions and early game champions are fine. Some push it too far to the point of lacking counterplay at their strong point and being worthless otherwise.

Tobias BracknerJun 18, 20174 votes

Kog'Maw has comparable range on a shorter cooldown with more damage and a passive AS steriod of similar amplitude that doesn't require set-up to use.

Kog'Maw can harass consistently at a longer distance and doesn't have to engage in an all-in playstyle.

Simply be aware that if you group up, Twitch might be on the prowl. When he pops up, you squish him.

no to toxicJun 18, 20176 votes

Vayne has a AA reset , crit amplifier and mobility in one ability She got hard CC and 12% max true dmg where the only counterplay is to not get attacked by her Her ult gives her tons of asd and allows her to be invisible every 2 seconds

Wow its like you can let every single adc sound op if you talk like that.

JunkοJun 18, 20173 votes

This post is just bullshit. Have you tried playing Twitch early? It's unbearable, yeah 5 stack E deals tons of dmg, but no ADC in the world with a brain will let you reach 5 stacks without killing you first. He probably has the weakest early of all ADs in the game except for Kog'maw, he is the most useless piece of trash you could have during the laning phase.

And there are many other champions whose only counterplay is "end early or lose", and then there are the opposite which are just unhealthy, sadly not much you can do about that, these champions are here to stay.

Also not much you can even do to nerf Twitch. He is an ADC, all his damage comes from items. Even if you remove the AS buff on Q, once he finishes core he will maybe need 0.5 sec more to kill you from stealth, that's just how the game works. If you nerf his stealth too hard then he might as well not have stealth.