Lets talk quinn? (not a hate post, just a simple nerf for her)

Daxanater·Jan 23, 2016·2 votes·1,088 views

As much as I do hate Quinn she is super fun to play and unique. I'm glad Quinn is the way she is now although most replies in all chat I see : wtf quinn so bull pls rito It's pretty normal

However a lot of marksman top as been appearing to counter various tanks. Quinn came into the picture and she seemed awesome, making sure people like or aren't fed. But I believe Quinn should have slight tweaking on her passive, nothing major just a bit of tweaking but I'm loving the champion.

24 Comments

ParoeJan 23, 20165 votes

the thing is. Qiunn is an assassin.

Shes not a standard marksman; she IS an assassin. It just so happens that itemization favors quinn heavily because AD crit itemization scales so damn well.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 23, 20161 votes

Yep.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

this I am just in favor of removing the crit scaling CD on her passive, and making it scale naturally w/lvls and I bet she'd be fine.

So she doesn't spike as high off a crit item being finished.

DaxanaterJan 23, 20161 votes

Yea actually that might be better, thanks for the feedback everyone :)

AezanthyaJan 23, 20162 votes

Quinn is fine.

ModWulf HelhammerJan 23, 20161 votes

What do you mean by "tweaking"? Also Quinn isn't really a tank counter at all

ParoeJan 23, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What do you mean by "tweaking"? Also Quinn isn't really a tank counter at all

He means tweaking as an ADC. And Quinn gets ahead very easily - if your jungler ganks properly quinn can get ahead and completely dominate the lane, then go around riven style and roam because of valor.

SulghunterJan 23, 20161 votes

Tanks that counter Quinn Garen Q will nail you if you vault off him. Renekton for obvious reasons. Singed See Garen, applies to the flimg. Volibear Same as above. Wukong. Same as Garen, worse because of that instant gap closer.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

Singed & Garen counter her a bit sure.

But other 2 are heavily skill match ups and quinn and potential to outplay them when done correctly.

xl Kirito lxJan 23, 20161 votes

Not that Riot's going to address it now, but Quinn's blind is going to be a problem in the future. Being suppressed by Malzahar or Warwick really sucks, but Quinn Q is worse.

ParoeJan 23, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=huvXE4T1,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-23T08:26:59.107+0000)

Not that Riot's going to address it now, but Quinn's blind is going to be a problem in the future. Being suppressed by Malzahar or Warwick really sucks, but Quinn Q is worse.

How so? Its a skillshot and her only form of CC. Every assassin either has CC, a gap closer, or both. Quin only has her blind, and even then it only effects basic attackers like Udyr and ADCs

SulghunterJan 23, 20161 votes

Actually, now, the blind is like Noc ult lite. It restricts your vision to a small radius around you. It even cuts off map vision. What you CAN see in that small radius of vision, you can still auto. However, it does stop the first minion or monster hit from auto-attacking.

Quinn's vault is a displacement and a slow, on top of being a psuedo-gap closer. The displacement is actually enough for a Yasuo to ult off of.

Fun fact, third rank ult, can run down an ulting Yi using mobi boots and ghost blade active.

xl Kirito lxJan 23, 20161 votes

Quinn blind removes the ability for a person to make decisions. It's already more effective then an old blind, from the fact that you'll unlikely be able to return auto's or spells, but now you have no idea what's happening around you.

People are comparing it to Noc ult, but at least Noc is melee, and it's on a respectable CD. Noc Q is also visible through the fog of war which also helps counterplay.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

Unless you're playing someone who's purely melee or all point & click, you can still use spells and try to guess/predict where she is, and melee have the decisions to try to charge her or fallback for a second and let it fall, not like it stuns or roots you after all. Sure it reduces your ability to make decisions but it doesn't remove it.

Noc Ult is also unavoidable, Quinn Q can be blocked by minions or miss entirely.

xl Kirito lxJan 23, 20161 votes

And, if you charge, for all you know, you're walking into a 1v2. Even if you throw out abilities trying to hit her, you've already been out traded by Q + passive proc. You don't lose the ability to make a decision, you lose the ability to make a good decision.

Noc' ulti is also an ulti. Slightly longer CD then Quinn Q. With that said, noc ulti is kind of his defining move. When you think of Nocturne, you think of "Darknesssssssssssss huehuehue". When you think of Quinn, it doesn't immediately go to

Ultimately, I'm not trying to say Quinn is OP or UP. She's a pain, but relatively balanced. I'm saying that form of a blind mechanic is toxic. And not something they should keep, or add more of into the game.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

How is any more toxic than other form of CC in the game.

Anything besides a slow, reduces or removes your ability decisions, that's kinda of the point of CC.

GoosetardJan 23, 20161 votes

There's two things I don't like about quinn:

I don't think having a champion that has reliable access to that much movespeed is healthy to the game. I also find it gimmicky. I miss the half of her kit that's gone, and if it had to change, so be it, but removal? For this?

They took her blind away because it was "too oppressive" to auto-attack reliant champions, then gave her one that's oppressive to everyone except melee auto attackers. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

Why not rammus has movement speed availability almost as good hers (early game especially).

How is half her kit gone? Her W/E still are very similar to before, her ult out of combat is still there, and she has new found wave clear potential between R & Q now. And she traded AoE single for stronger single hit on her Q. Plus Q giving harrier just feels so damn right.

GoosetardJan 23, 20161 votes

Uh... her ult used to give her 3 other abilities. They were related to her human form ones but used differently.

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

I know I've played her since releases, but saying she lost "half of her kit" is absurd. She still has sky strike. Her W did same regardless of ult on or off so nothing lost there unless you're counting the AS steriod.

All she lost was the melee versions of Vault & Blinding Assault, which frankly just removed counterplay against squishy champions & was the root cause of her ult being gated by the ridiculously long cooldown because if she was ahead her ult Q/E gave her opponents very little counterplay.

GoosetardJan 23, 20161 votes

Yes, I'll count the attack speed steroid on her ult because it was a great way to take towers and helped a lot if you had to duel someone. Saying she still has "skystrike" isn't really right either because it now does a grand total of: 1 auto attack to everyone around. Neat. Before it was an execute.

Look I get that my opinion about her isn't mainsteam, and that a lot of people are happy with the rework. And I get what you're saying about squishy targets having low counterplay (a lot of assassins have that problem, especially AD ones... looking at you Talon ). It just irks me that their solution to these problems and the surrounding "confusion of her identity" was "hey, let's invent her a new one" while watering down her kit. It's similar to what they did with morde only hers turned out loads better.

The role they tried to shoehorn her into was "adc good with and against splitpushes" but, thanks to minion changes, splitting isn't really a strategy being seen a lot. What she turned into was the "god I hope you have completely expansive vision because she'll come out of the fog faster than you can react" adc/jungler/toplaner. And that bothers me. But it doesn't bother a lot of people, and that's fine. I understand, and I think we can all have our opinion.

All that aside, I think we can agree that Riot flip-flopped on her blind pretty hard and that it's really oppressive to a large portion of the roster right now

Phoenix Kotori Jan 23, 20161 votes

Saying she still has "skystrike" isn't really right either because it now does a grand total of: 1 auto attack to everyone around. Neat. Before it was an execute.

It was the worst execute in the game literally I more times than I could count I used it and just didn't barely kill someone lol. So I don't really miss that.

It just irks me that their solution to these problems and the surrounding "confusion of her identity" was "hey, let's invent her a new one" while watering down her kit. It's similar to what they did with morde only hers turned out loads better.

Her ult was suppose to be about allowing Quinn to roam, catch, and surprise targets, but because of the 1 vs 1 burst low counterplay potential meant that CD was long, so that roam that wasn't sure to pay off wasn't worth the CD generally so it wasn't used to roam. Her new ult reduces the in-combat power in exchange of allowing it to fit the theme of letting her roam/flank/surprise enemies. So in my opinion it didn't invent a new one, it took an existing one and made it a focal point which was a great choice, imo.

And literally nothing was watered down besides losing the melee form skills which was done for sake of game health.

Her old Q was always felt lacking to me sure it had AoE CC, but the dmg felt bad and the CD felt bad and harrier on it was a change that couldn't feel more right or thematic, it was the exact opposite of watered down.

What she turned into was the "god I hope you have completely expansive vision because she'll come out of the fog faster than you can react" adc/jungler/toplaner. And that bothers me.

She's a roamer she's suppose to do that, if you're playing too far up without vision to protect you, she's a champion meant to punish that.

All that aside, I think we can agree that Riot flip-flopped on her blind pretty hard and that it's really oppressive to a large portion of the roster right now

How so, it allows you to use everything still and only hits 1 person, it's a very fair ability. '

And when she had the execute Q it was just silly how much damage it did that couldn't stay forever and vision reduction has more counterplay to it than blind especially since it isn't AoE anymore.

tbh You sound like you just hate it because you hate change.

GoosetardJan 24, 20161 votes

reduces the in-combat power

eliminates*

if you're playing too far up without vision to protect you

In my opinion, the vision radius required to be able to see her in time to react to her approach is too large, but I respect differing opinions.

it allows you to use everything still

Except anything targeted if she's outside the radius, which she usually is, unless you're going melee form against her, which, as I said before, is the only thing it's not great against anymore

tbh You sound like you just hate it because you hate change.

We were having a completely civil discussion, why'd you have to go for the ad hominem attacks like that? It's also not true

ShrîkeJan 23, 20161 votes

No thanks. People have mixed feelings about Quinn but she's in a balanced state finally and has defined strengths and weaknesses. Champions like Leblanc should be looked at, barely any weaknesses at all IF any.