Tone Down Lucian

WinBoat·May 10, 2016·10 votes·662 views

Alright, yeah he destroyed the our team last match. So partly salty, partly biased, but honestly he is a little too strong and a little too safe I might add.

21 Comments

PulsarPolloMay 10, 20161 votes

First of all, Lucian should not be tuned down as:

He is a champion that is somewhat hard to play mechanically, as abusing his passive is very difficult at times
Weaker early laning phase, he is pretty squishy and is very ability reliant, if you can't shut him down early, then that's you getting outplayed or you failing to close out the kill
Varying Builds for different kinds of outplays, some prefer a new build commonly used in Korea, which uses the Black Cleaver's Armor Pen Stacks very well with Lucian's Passive. Shreds tanks. Lots of different builds that can easily be countered.
Ult no longer does as much damage as before, as the number of bullets fired no longer scales with AS.

It's probably just you who thinks this, as he is very balanced. Maybe you're not a good adc, in that case you should revisit the role at a later date so you don't have to deal with "OP Lucian" ~ruski

FantasySniperMay 10, 20162 votes

Skill-index is no excuse for a champion's power.
He's only "weak" before his first back because a simple [Q] + AA has insane AD scaling.
He is very pokey, and very difficult to catch.
BC + Youmuu's is not easily countered. The whole point of building it is because it hard-counters armor and gives him even more safe damage. His normal Essence Reaver build is also impossible to deal with because of its super-friendly recipe and unlimited mana.
His ult does 400 (+400% AD) on the first rank. He can do at least 600 damage even after armor easy. For comparison, Ashe only does 250 and Jinx does barely 400.

It's just you who thinks that the most popular champion in the game (especially in higher ranks) right now is easy to deal with.

WinBoatMay 10, 20163 votes

He's been picked nearly every single game at MSI as well besides maybe 3....

Yeah he's not strong at all.

But don't bother arguing with him bro.

PulsarPolloMay 10, 20162 votes

*Stixxay picks Cait .-. Bruh And why would I not argue with him? You are the one trying to defend a heavily biased statement. You and this FantasySniper guy, please, go off of real statistics and pro thoughts.

PulsarPolloMay 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Skill-index is no excuse for a champion's power.

He's only "weak" before his first back because a simple [Q] + AA has insane AD scaling.

He is very pokey, and very difficult to catch.

BC + Youmuu's is not easily countered. The whole point of building it is because it hard-counters armor and gives him even more safe damage. His normal Essence Reaver build is also impossible to deal with because of its super-friendly recipe and unlimited mana.

His ult does 400 (+400% AD) on the first rank. He can do at least 600 damage even after armor easy. For comparison, Ashe only does 250 and Jinx does barely 400.

It's just you who thinks that the most popular champion in the game (especially in higher ranks) right now is easy to deal with.

Actually, skill index is. The concept of "high" skill cap is exhibited in ADCS that can hyper carry the game. Also, you did not stand against my point of early game denial, so that point still stands, which means that your points on his poke and weakness are invalid. The Armor Shred Build of Lucian also promotes a different play style, one that is risk/reward. Clearly you do not understand that concept. Please, check real LCS statistics and game statistics instead of going off of your own biased opinion. My statement was based off of Na, Eu, etc. statistics. They are also based off of pro opinions.

FantasySniperMay 11, 20161 votes

If all it takes is a competitive level player to make a champion OP, that's not balance. It's also not balance if all it takes is a gold-level player to make the most of him in a game.

The armor shred build sacrifices mana from Essence Reaver for shit-tons of damage and mobility that can't be effectively countered. The health bonus from BC is also a plus.

LCS statistics mean almost nothing because of their infinitesimal sample size. But since we're playing that game: Lucian won 51.5% of the time during the entirety of S6, 85.7% of the time in the Spring Playoffs. For the Mid-season invitational, it's practically consistent who's failing with him. And those who are failing with him are not only consistently failing with him, but also likely to be failing throughout the tournament in general. In Master+, he's in more than half of games and still maintains a positive win-rate.

You're going to have to give sources for those pro opinions.

PulsarPolloMay 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

If all it takes is a competitive level player to make a champion OP, that's not balance. It's also not balance if all it takes is a gold-level player to make the most of him in a game.

The armor shred build sacrifices mana from Essence Reaver for shit-tons of damage and mobility that can't be effectively countered. The health bonus from BC is also a plus.

LCS statistics mean almost nothing because of their infinitesimal sample size. But since we're playing that game: Lucian won 51.5% of the time during the entirety of S6, 85.7% of the time in the Spring Playoffs. For the Mid-season invitational, it's practically consistent who's failing with him. And those who are failing with him are not only consistently failing with him, but also likely to be failing throughout the tournament in general. In Master+, he's in more than half of games and still maintains a positive win-rate.

You're going to have to give sources for those pro opinions.

First of all, comparing a small string of matches to thousands is a biased comparison, you should know that. ;) Secondly, you're not in Master or Challenger, so stop acting like you are. Third, it is balance, as the majority of LoL players are not in Gold or higher. Riot is trying to adjust the game for the lower skilled players so they can actually play the game without raging, something they did in 6.9 with the removal of the Devourer enchantment and the Guinsoo's Rageblade rework. Fourth, Pros > Average People (Bronze, Silver, etc.), another biased opinion from you. By now you should know what to say and what not to say. Of course a professional will perform better with Lucian, it's mainly teamwork and communication from the team, not just raw skill. Despite being an ADC, the other team members have equally important tasks, such as deciding when to siege, starting an engage or disengaging, etc. Fifth, More master statistics coming from someone who isn't even in Master, Riot is adjusting this game every few patches to adjust the skill needed to play certain champs. I average about 10 hours a week as a Senior in College and still, the game feels easier and easier for me each and every patch. Sixth, Check livecap or go on twitch and view previous broadcasts from pros like Doublelift and Bjergsen, they openly voice their thoughts a LOT, especially with Doublelift ranting on the QSS changes and reworks. Lastly, please, don't present biased info, it just makes your argument invalid, like i pointed out. Stick to Gold games and sitting in your room all day. You're wasting time on the boards presenting false and biased arguments. Do something real, like going to the library or playing some sports. You're not benefiting yourself by doing this. ;) ~ruski

FantasySniperMay 11, 20161 votes

"Infinitesimal sample size" - You really should get better at reading, I'm tired of repeating myself.

No, I'm not, but that doesn't mean I can't give you statistics and easily deduced knowledge. You can't say that just because I'm not in master, I can't tell you about open statistics that can be found anywhere. Especially since you're on hell of a hypocrite for using a smurf account to tell me this when you haven't even hit gold MMR.

Riot is not balancing just for lower-skilled players. Several times they've nerfed a mechanic for its power in higher ranks. Kog'Maw, Mikael's, Azir, and Gangplank being some of the easiest examples. Devourer change was desired by all players. Sated was useless in higher ranks, boring in lower ranks, and then made everyone want to rip their hair out when carries could be tanks without losing any of their damage.

"By now you should know" that you were the one who brought up statistics in competitive levels, and the moment I proved you wrong, you can't even stick to your assertion. I shouldn't have to explain to you that because these guys are losing frequently, they're most definitely not in an equivalently skilled setting, making all of these matches in the competitive environment null and void for proper analysis.

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/68356936.jpg

PulsarPolloMay 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

"Infinitesimal sample size" - You really should get better at reading, I'm tired of repeating myself.

No, I'm not, but that doesn't mean I can't give you statistics and easily deduced knowledge. You can't say that just because I'm not in master, I can't tell you about open statistics that can be found anywhere. Especially since you're on hell of a hypocrite for using a smurf account to tell me this when you haven't even hit gold MMR.

Riot is not balancing just for lower-skilled players. Several times they've nerfed a mechanic for its power in higher ranks. Kog'Maw, Mikael's, Azir, and Gangplank being some of the easiest examples. Devourer change was desired by all players. Sated was useless in higher ranks, boring in lower ranks, and then made everyone want to rip their hair out when carries could be tanks without losing any of their damage.

"By now you should know" that you were the one who brought up statistics in competitive levels, and the moment I proved you wrong, you can't even stick to your assertion. I shouldn't have to explain to you that because these guys are losing frequently, they're most definitely not in an equivalently skilled setting, making all of these matches in the competitive environment null and void for proper analysis.

We have 6 seasons of splits and tournaments to look back on for statistics, and you call that a small sample size. No, this is not my smurf, this has been my main since my account was hijacked in the summer of 2015. I stopped playing for a while because I couldn't recover my email and when I search up the name it doesn't even show. I also decided to take a break from LoL all together and went to play Counter-Strike in my spare time. Second, I don't play ranked, the environment is extremely toxic and there are not any alternate clients to PUG on like Counter-Strike does. I also do not like the tournament system Riot has set up, I think it's EXTREMELY disorganized and confusing. I am sticking with my point of pro statistics because I am bringing them up, your logic is more flawed than a crippled man's ability to walk. I'm not even going to waste my time with you, you're clearly trolling in the boards by bringing up stupid theories that make absolutely no sense. Also, great job botting your upvotes. I highly approve. ~ruski

FantasySniperMay 12, 20161 votes

We don't have 6 seasons of splits and tournaments to look back on. You can't make an argument about the current state of a champion if the state you're referring to isn't current.

-> Doesn't play anything but norms -> Is Bronze 3 according to his MMR -> Insults my logic when he hasn't provided any in the slightest -> Says he's sticking to his point when he already tried going back on it -> Compares me to the handicapped -> Claims I'm using a vote-bot when there aren't any more than 2 votes -> Accuses me of trolling

http://global3.memecdn.com/trust-me---yoda-knows-from-trolls_o_2211875.jpg

PulsarPolloMay 12, 20161 votes

[deleted]

FantasySniperMay 12, 20161 votes

-> Never said "hypocrite" -> Thinks that poor reading skills count as being handicapped -> Calls me an "immature tart"

http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/What-Meme-13.jpg

WinBoatMay 10, 20162 votes

Aren't all ADC's squishy? Stop using that.

I'm not gonna bother debating, when people disagree on the internet, they disagree.

PulsarPolloMay 10, 20161 votes

Oh and, you were jungling in the game where your team was "rekt" by Lucian. Never engage a full health ADC as a jungler unless absolutely necessary or you are very snowbally and ahead, you will get absolutely shredded.

SirsirMay 12, 20161 votes

No he isn't. Landing Qs beyond its cast range is really the only skill he has. Q is targeted, W is more utility and passive proc than damage and E is a dash. Sometimes his ult might require skill but other than that hes no more mechanically intense than half the other ADCs.
HAH no. Hes middle of the road until his first back where he suddenly becomes completely overbearing.
Pretty much every build 'can be countered' but ADC builds (particularly ones that rush penetration) tend to have lower than average counterplay aside from 'pop em' which is relatively hard to do to a lucian.
Ult does more damage early but from a shorter range

Lucian only really seems OP because he has such a strong early, and by the nature of his class (marksman) it translates into a strong late. Also he plays a DPS class as a burst damage character, hes practically an assassin, especially with his new build.

PulsarPolloMay 13, 20161 votes

Ability Reliance is different than the first back powerspike..... ~ruski

Malix FarwinMay 12, 20161 votes

Although i see a ton of lucian i do see most other ADCs as well. The ones i see the least and just feel like they are dead are Corki Tristana Jinx Quinn (i legit forgot quinn existed till just now).

DrehirthMay 12, 20161 votes

they should remove the bonus damage to minions on his ult... if he's designed to win lane, he should be punished harder for losing. It's been made very evident at MSI that he can help stall out games while his team catches up by ulting minion waves. Seiging should be his weakness.

Also reduce his movement speed to 325... why does he have an extremely low cooldown dash, self movement speed buff, AND high base movement speed? You can justify it on sivir because she doesn't dash, but Lucian having it is kind of annoying.

ZoeeeeMay 12, 20161 votes

His base hp/armor seems really high compared to other Adcs. He's also way to consistant at winning lane or going even since csing is so easy.

SirsirMay 12, 20161 votes

Basically he wins lane unless hes vs a Cait. Even then he is one of the few champs that can stand up to her. So yeah could probably use some toning.